OP-ED: Before It's Too Late in Iraq

Reprinted with permission.

By Gen. (ret.) Wesley Clark
Washington Post
Unabridged Version
August 26, 2005


In the old, familiar fashion, mounting US casualties in Iraq have mobilized increasing public doubts about the war. Now, more than half the American people believe that the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. They're right. But it would also be a mistake now to pull out, start pulling out, or set a date to pull out. Instead we need a strategy to create a stable democratizing and peaceful state in Iraq – a strategy the Administration has failed to develop and articulate.


From the outset of the American post-invasion efforts, we needed a three-pronged strategy – diplomatic, political, and military. Iraq sits geographically on the fault-line between Shia and Sunni Islam – and for the mission to succeed we will have to be the catalyst for regional cooperation. Iraq cannot be "isolated from its neighbors and tensions in the region. We needed to engage Iraq's neighbors to insure that a stable, democratizing Iraq was not a threat to them, to isolate Iraq from outside supplies, leadership, and manpower, and to gain from them resources and support to alleviate the burdens on the US.


Unfortunately, the Administration didn't see the need for a diplomatic track. Its scattershot diplomacy in the region – threatening some of Iraq's neighbors with a variety of economic and diplomatic measures and allusions to further military action, expounding aims in the region that sound grandiose, and to many of those who live there, naïve and even somewhat imperialistic, failing to reinforce the US efforts with more culturally and linguistically capable regional allies, and turning away other assistance which might have made US leadership less obtrusive – have been ill-advised and counterproductive. The diplomatic failure magnified the difficulties facing the political and military elements of US strategy by contributing to the increasing infiltration of jihadists, the surprisingly resilient support of the insurgency, and the underlying political difficulties of bringing together representative Iraqi elements


On the political track, aiming for a legitimate, democratic Iraqi government was essential, but the US was far too slow in mobilizing Iraqi political action. A wasted first year encouraged a rise in sectarian militias and the emergence of strong fractionating forces. And even within the last year, as John Negroponte moved to Washington, months went by without an American Ambassador in Iraq. Today, political development among the Iraqis is hampered not only by the lack of security but also by American efforts to promote the establishment of a democracy without adequate development of the underlying social and cultural prerequisites, such as security and an infrastructure program that can reliably deliver gas, electricity and jobs.


Meanwhile, on the military track, security on the ground is poor, not only in terms of suicide bombing but more importantly, in terms of protection of life and property for ordinary Iraqis. The US armed forces still haven't received the resources, restructuring and guidance adequate for the magnitude of the task. Why, in June, 2005, over two year into the mission of training Iraqi forces, was the President announcing such "new steps" as partnering with Iraqi units, establishing "transition teams" to work with Iraqi units, or training Iraqi Ministries to conduct anti-terrorist operations? There's nothing new about any of this – just standard nation-building doctrine which we used in Vietnam. Where are the thousands of trained linguists that we need? Where are the flexible, well-resourced, military-led infrastructure development programs to win "hearts and minds?" Where are the smart operations and adequate numbers of forces – US, coalition, or Iraqi –to strengthen control over the borders?


With each passing month other intervening factors compound the difficulties and probably reduce the chances for the mission in Iraq to succeed. The election of an Iranian hardliner makes dialogue with Iran more difficult. Ineffective dealings with Syria probably reduces Assad's leverage in controlling jihadist infiltration into Iraq. Fractionating forces within Iraq have grown stronger, and Iraq's economic infrastructure more fragile. Iraqi patience is wearing thin amidst the continuing violence and hardship in Baghdad. And the apparently growing flow of jihadists in and out of Iraq not only testifies to an increasingly sophisticated insurgency but also a new source of training journeymen to fight against us in the global war on terror. So urgent modification of the strategy is required, before it is too late to do anything other than withdraw..


Adding a diplomatic track to the strategy is a must. The US should form a standing conference of Iraq's neighbors, complete with committees dealing with all the regional economic and political issues, including trade, travel, cross-border infrastructure projects, and, of course, cutting off the infiltration of jihadists. Iraq's neighbors should be asked to assist. This will also provide a better opportunity for meaningful back-door discussions of Iran's nuclear program, Syria's interests in Lebanon, and Turkish interaction with the Kurds in Iraq. The US should tone down its raw rhetoric for US-style democracy as an answer to all problems and instead listen more carefully to the many voices within the region. A public US declaration forswearing permanent bases in Iraq would also be helpful in engaging both regional and Iraqi support at this point.


On the political side, the timeline for the agreements on the Constitution are less important than the substance. It is up to American leadership to help engineer a compromise that will avoid the "red lines" of the respective factions and leave in place a state that both we and the neighbors can support. So, no Kurdish vote on independence; a restricted role for Islam, and limited autonomy in the south. And no private militias.


In addition, the US needs a legal mandate from the government to provide additional civil assistance and advice - along with additional US civilian personnel aimed at strengthening the institutions of government. Three month in-country tours should be replaced by a minimum two year stay for civilian advisors and technical experts. Key ministries must be reinforced, provincial governments made functional, a system of justice trained and established, and the rule of law promoted at the local levels. With the majority of Iraqis having known no other leader than Saddam Hussein, there will be a continuing need for assistance in institutional development, leadership training, and international monitoring for years to come, and all of this must be made palatable to Iraqi sovereignty. Hand-in-glove are the requirements for infrastructure repair, job creation, and economic development without which no government will be safe from an insurgent force. Monies promised for reconstruction simply must be committed and projects moved forward, especially in those areas along the border and where the insurgency has the greatest potential..


On the military side, the vast effort underway to train an Army must be matched by efforts to train police and local justices. Countries as far away as Canada, France and Germany should be engaged to assist. Gulf states should also provide observers and technical assistance. In military terms, striking at insurgents is necessary but insufficient – instead, military and security operations must return primarily to the tried and true methods of counterinsurgency – winning the hearts and minds of the populace through civic action, small scale economic development, and positive daily interactions. Ten thousand Arab Americans with full language proficiency should be recruited to assist as interpreters. A more successful effort must be made to control jihadist infiltration into the country by a combination of outposts, patrols, and reaction forces reinforced by high technology means. Over time, American forces should be pulled back into reserve roles and phased out.


The growing chorus of voices demanding a pull-out should seriously alarm the Bush Administration. For President Bush and his team are repeating the failure of Vietnam – failing to craft a realistic and effective policy, and in its place, simply demanding that the American people show resolve. Resolve alone isn't enough to mend a flawed approach. If the Administration won't adopt a winning strategy, then the American people will be justified in demanding that the Administration bring our troops home.

Submitted by Jon Lyon (not verified) on September 7, 2005 - 1:07pm.

I watched the Tim Russert, Meet the Press, panel of retired Generals last week and went away feeling better, more hopeful that there must be a solution to the Iraq war. It was General Wes Clark's thoughts that helped the most. At a table of such accomplished men, Wes stood out. They were all brilliant, but Wes still stood out. And I asked again, "why didn't we elect this guy President?"

Now this Op-Ed piece is reinforcing and elaborating on his earlier comments. I hope Wes runs for President.

Submitted by Rich Wingerter (not verified) on September 7, 2005 - 1:02pm.

I'm proud of the work that Gen. Clark has done for the country. This is a well-thought-out example.

I don't agree that we can't set a timeline. I just believe we need to tie any deadline to reduction in violence and some of the other goals that Gen. Clark laid out here. If we set a deadline that is tied to elimination of violence, the Iraqi people themselves will put pressure on the insurgents to end the bloodshed and take part in the political process. This is a key element in protecting our forces, as well as the Iraqis, from violence. If a bomb goes off and the timetable takes a hit, most Iraqis will respond by looking for ways to turn in the bombers so that they can get American forces out of there as quickly as possible.

But, in the end, the thing I like most about Gen. Clark's piece is that it presents a firm alternative to the Bush Administration's "plan" for Iraq. This is sorely needed by the Democratic Party, which needs to be clear and distinct in its opposition to the failed policies of the administration.

Thank you, General Clark, for stepping up to the plate when America really needs it!

Submitted by Lt Col Paul Batterson (not verified) on September 2, 2005 - 2:06am.

Gen Clark,

I think your piece in the Post was right-on.

In spite of the "neo-cons" mistakes, we need to grab this beast by the horns. But, due to their mistaken advice "we-are-where-we-are", So lets press on.

I think your prescription is as good as it gets. If we can garner local & regional co-operation we should go for it....and I think the basic Iraqui popular sentiment is to support a sectarian state.

On the negative side, if this portion of the world devolves into three competing "mini-states" it would be a disaster, for us and for the region.

Thank You,
Paul Batterson
Lt Col (Ret'd)
USAFA- 1964
DIS-1972

Submitted by Kimberly (not verified) on August 31, 2005 - 8:11pm.

Thank you so much. You've made the fact that my husband is over there serving in harm's way so much more meaningful. You have given me renewed fervor and my sacrifices here without a husband or father for our children are so much easier to accept. YEAH RIGHT. Folks that pontificate to the extent of this article do nothing except undermine the morale of decent human beings who seek to serve and protect. THANKS A LOT.
Kimberly

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on September 21, 2005 - 9:34am.

Yes Kimberly, it seems to me that General Clark is calling for a "winning strategy", and then proposing one. What's to object to about that? Clearly, though, his comments rubbed you the wrong way, but it's not clear from your post why. Can you elaborate?

Submitted by icantbelieveimv... on September 9, 2005 - 7:58am.

I would think that someone who really was in a military family would refer to him as General Clark... but that's another question.

Let's assume for the moment that you are who you say you are. Why would offering suggestions to help in Iraq be bad for your husband? Why would that make you angry? Why would you criticize someone who honestly thought things could be going better and offered a solution?

I would think that someone who was making sacrifices for this war would welcome open discussion about better ways to approach it. I would think that someone who was personally affected by the war would want it to be over faster. I would think that someone who was hurting because of it would want every person with any experience out there drumming up ideas on how to help.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on September 2, 2005 - 5:23pm.

Kimberley, Speaking as someone who fought in Vietnam, YOU ARE A TOTAL ASS AND SO IS W. Jack Crane, Santa Fe, NM

Submitted by A. Billmann (not verified) on August 31, 2005 - 12:01pm.

As of August 31, the very rough estimate of the damage caused to OUR OWN NATION by Hurricane Katrina stands at 26 billion dollars.

That same 26 billion dollars buys 24 weeks in Iraq.

I'm guessing the folks in the Gulf states could probably use that $1.1 billion PER WEEK about now.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on September 2, 2005 - 5:35pm.

After 9/11 the nation looked to W as a Father Figure. After Katrina, he's a six-month-old, diaper drooping from excrement and urine with which he is painting his crib--our nation. Jack Crane, Santa Fe, NM

Submitted by Carlos Ricardo (not verified) on August 31, 2005 - 11:48am.

Dear General Clark,

Thank you for you most thoughtful and knowledgeable letter regarding possible solutions to the Iraq catastrophe. Unfortuately, I am afraid the American people have elected to office a president who is neither knowledgeable enough, nor mature enough, to serve as the leader of the world's greatest nation. Mr. Bush prides himself in having a mediocre academic record, makes light of not being asute in intellectual pursuits, and when he had a chance, found a way to avoid combat. None of these factors makes for a sound leader.

What I am afraid we will see for the next three years is an attempt by Mr. Bush to save face. He obviously is incapable of admitting mistakes, and what is worse, recognizing his errors of judgement. Our only hope is to replace Mr. Bush and all those who went along with him in leading us into the Iraq War. This includes even those Democrats who voted for this war. We must start anew with a fresh, informed approach on dealing with the Arab world, not to even mention our need to elect a leader who understands military matters. For example, when going to war the president must trust those who are experienced in war. Fighting wars on the cheap, like Bush has tried to do in Iraq, never works. As Napoleon said: "If you are going to conquer Vienna, conquer Vienna."

Thank you taking time out from your busy schedule to read my thoughts.

Submitted by Sherry Billy (not verified) on August 30, 2005 - 10:46pm.

I read an article today that said that the American army will not arm the Iraqi forces with tanks, helicopters, arms that would enable them to take full control of their country. The Generals are afraid that the unstable political conditions in the country could lead to civil war and the arms might be turned on the Americans to drive them out. One Iraqi General complained that an old Russian rifle and a pickup don't make an army. So we're in a fix here. We want them to take over, but can't trust them with the very tools they need to control the country.

We are building so called semipermanent bases there for our forces to stay until the transition. If and when the Iraqi forces ever are able to take over.

It appears to me that it will be next to impossible to ever give the arms to an army that is full of warring tribes with revenge killing the usual method of settling differences.

My advice is to declare victory and leave, there will be a civil war whether we stay and more lives are lost, or just leave and let them decide their own fate.

http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/2005/08/28/news/arms.php

Submitted by Eric (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 9:11pm.

now spend a few minutes looking at this to see if we can get a little clarity here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/08/AR2005070802303.html

By the way, it's non-partison.

Have fun!

Submitted by Charles Nelson (not verified) on August 30, 2005 - 9:47pm.

Having been born in 1930 I remember WW2 as a student, graduating from high school in 1948. I remember vividly the involvment of the civilian population even those of us who were young at the time.Everyone knew we were at war and were all involved in one way or another. I remember particularly after Pearl Harbor putting my treasured Buck Rogers pistol in a scrap metal drive.

I was old enough to be a part of the Korean War which was the first and true United Nations action, some of us believe that Korea was the first step in the destruction of the Berlin Wall.The entire nation was involved in this war through the military draft and call up of reservists. The civilian population was involved but not to the degree of WW2.

Viet Nam also involved the draft and civilian involvment but to a lesser degree than WW2 and Korea.

If the civilians at home had to make sacrifices as we did in the past, the war in Iraq would be even less popular. I believe we should start to make sacrifices along with our combat forces.
Reduce energy consumption along the lines of the Arab Oil Boycott of the 70's, including
Reduction of the speed limit by 5 miles an hour.
Tax surcharge on gas guzzling vehicles.
Restrict commercial electrical lighting as we did in the 70's.
Other toughts
Initiate a special "War Tax" to pay for this horrible mistake called a war.
Activate the Selective Service Act.

These are just a few thoughts on involving more non military personnel,there are many more ways we could help the "War Effort."

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on August 31, 2005 - 8:58am.

do I blame bush???????? you bet. he doesn't get it, never will. There are many, many of us that believe this war was not only based on lies, but strategically a catastrophe for the U.S. and the region, and counter-productive to the "war on terror." and while we are all doing what we can to help troops, donations of money and supplies, etc, more is required. we should have a ten percent increase in tax until the war is over; share the burden support the troops!!!! absolutely.

bush doesn't get; never will; worst pres. in history.

General Clark gets it; my support for him is total in terms of time and resources. can only hope he runs for pres.; he will win. clark's army is ready to roll!!!

Thank you for your service friend.

Submitted by yurbud (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 6:58pm.

At the moment, Democrats seem to be telling kinder, gentler versions of Bush's lies.

This war had nothing to do with terrorism, WMD, or spreading democracy.

According to the coalitions own polls, over 80% of Iraqis wanted us to leave after elections at the latest (that was seven months ago). Therefore, members of either party who suggest staying longer are lying if they say democracy is a motive. The Iraqis want us to leave.

In terms of reducing terrorism, the Iraq War has dramatically increased hostility toward us in the region. A Zogby poll of Arabs showed overwhelming opposition to the war, including an incredible 98% opposed in our ally, the relatively secular Egypt.

The neocons, including old school ones like Zbigniew Brezinski have said our goal in Central Asia is to control the oil spigot, which not only gives us (or oil companies rather) the oil income, but also the ability to turn off the tap at will on anyone we dislike.

When Wes Clark and other Dems start telling the truth about the war, I will listen. Right now, it's obvious they are still trying to split the difference between serving the American people and serving corporate America, which is using our tax dollars, blood, and reputation as capital to pad their bottom line.

Iraq is the ultimate case of "socialize risk and privatize profits."

Submitted by icantbelieveimv... on August 31, 2005 - 7:51am.

He consistently says, "We still don't know why we went to Iraq." -- i.e. the Bush administration still hasn't admitted why they wanted to go.

Submitted by Leslie Smith (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 6:10pm.

General Clark,
Your suggestions for succeeding in Iraq are detailed and thoughtful and I appreciate your multipronged approach to the vexing problem of how to get out of Iraq and have it be a reasonably stable and peaceful place. I understand why you do not want us to "cut and run."

The very large concern I have, which no one has addressed explicitly, but Joe Biden has addressed implicitly, is the 1) building of permanent military bases in Iraq; 2) the CPA's efforts to put in place an economy that the British magazine, The Economist, called "a capitalist paradise"; it was supposed to have a 15% flat tax on business, with most sectors deregulated and available for foreign investment! The Economist published this article around September of 2003. In addition, I read an article in the last two months that said that many oil wells near Basra were going up for bid to international corporations in the near future.

First, I think it is immoral and absolutely unacceptable for the U.S. government to wrest control of Iraq's economy while telling Iraqis that we are "liberating" them (when, in fact, we are stealing from them and ensuring their longterm impoverishment). Second, Iraqis have other sources of news AND they are not stupid people---they KNOW the Bush administration's corporate surrogates are stealing from them. How can we possibly expect them to trust us and to work with us when we are essentially tricking them?

Our own government seems to be acting on behalf of private citizens who are themselves corporate owners, and not on behalf of the American people's enlightened longterm interests. Yet the American people will pay for this folly for decades while these pirates get rich, leave government in a few years, and essentially get off scott free.

Submitted by Rich Wingerter (not verified) on September 7, 2005 - 1:13pm.

This is a very important point. The Democratic Party must go to the grass roots for funding and stop taking so much money from corporate interests. That's the only way that it will truly serve the 80+% of Americans who work for a living.

There's a very simple test to see if you are a Democrat or a Republican. Look at the checks you deposit. If they are paychecks, then you are getting wages or salary and they are stamped "Democrat". If they are dividends and equity gains, they are stamped "Republican".

Democrats should be served by people who reject large quantities of corporate money and make an effort to get their funding from us.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on August 31, 2005 - 9:23am.

Thank you for voicing this so eloquently here. Many, many of us feel the same way but do not make the time or have what it takes to express these very true, very valid ideas. It's hard to internalize that Bush's presence and actions in the White House are, indeed, reality, and to sit by and watch this nightmare continue is excrutiating. His sins will follow us for years to come. The pain is not nearly over.

Submitted by Will Chan (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 11:42pm.

Second this opinion... when injustice ends so will terrorism

Submitted by Liberti (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 4:37pm.

Thank you for speaking out on Darfur and Iraq. We need vocal and effective responses to the Administration's bumbling and inaction. Time is wasted while Mr. Bush vacations in Crawford, and the public needs to get involved in an honest dialogue on the consequences of rash action.
We as Democrats cannot fix it yet, though we might send a powerful message in 2006. I speak to Republicans and military families who are very discouraged with the lack of progress in Iraq.

To hope that Presidend Bush can learn from mistakes may be futile. But he may change his policies for the better if the outcry becomes loud enough.

Thank you for your hard work, General.

Submitted by M. Roberts (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 3:41pm.

Clark clearly articulates the current situation in Iraq and what is needed to 'win the war.’ If Clark were calling the shots, what he proposes just might work. So I agree with him, operationally.

But he's not calling the shots and the Bush administration surely isn't listening. Look, these guys are as incompetent as they are off-the-charts ideologically. So what he proposes isn’t going to happen. What we can expect is more of the same, until they are forced to do otherwise.

Op-ed pieces like this are needed because they show that Democrats have concrete and realistic ideas for dealing Iraq and other problems. But we also need to think more practically. What can we do given the hopelessness of the current administration? What will we do when Democrats inherit this mess in a few years?

Submitted by peter miller (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 2:40pm.

Let the Iraqis decide

Us troops leave now or later—

A straight up or down vote

Americans are deeply divided on the question of how long US troops should remain in Iraq but it is not just our choice. Let the Iraqis decide if they want us there. The slogan ‘bring the troops home as soon as possible’ is meaningless; it is a weasel phrase that appears to sympathize with people against the occupation while giving full support to the neocon colonizers who dream of staying and taking over the entire Middle East. Many liberals, including many prominent Democrats, argue that the US should leave Iraq—but not yet, the country isn’t stable, there would be chaos, civil war, and so on. This stand actually supports Bush while pretending to oppose him, and raises the distinct possibility that Democratic victories in the 2006 and 2008 elections could mean a continuation of Bush’s policies, just with warmer and fuzzier rhetoric.

One of the hallmarks of a colonialist power has always been to claim authority to decide what is best for the colonial subjects. The US has no justification for deciding what is best for the Iraqi people: if they want the US occupation to continue, that is their right (not ours) and they can request it; if they want the US out immediately, or six months from now, or whenever, that again is their right. ‘Spreading democracy,’ if it can be made to mean anything, must at least include the power of the Iraqi people to decide who occupies their country. Since we are also constantly told that elections are possible in Iraq, let them have an election: US troops out now or later.

The March of Democracy in Iraq: a special election in Iraq on the key issue of continued occupation of their country. Such an election should be relatively easy to organize: the insurgents as well as the US-backed authority should be in favor of the widest participation. The voters already know the key issues (they live with these issues hourly) and have definite ideas about the consequences of whichever decision. If such an election were conducted with international oversight to guarantee minimal honesty in vote collection and tabulation, the enemies of democracy would stand revealed and isolated.

Submitted by Pinot (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 11:53am.

It's over. We lost. Cover our ass while we pack it up. Say we're sorry for leaving anarchy behind but just keep saying it; sorry, our bad. Then leave. Leave on Saturday. The weekend is a good time to move. You guys can have it all back.

Come on General, this is absolutely a lost cause. Stay the course, off the clift? Negotiate with the countries in the area? We won't negotiate with the French. Remember, arrogance and incompetence got us there. Call it what it is, an incredible mistake of mythical proportions. Put our tail between our legs and get the fuck out...now.

Pinot

Submitted by Eric (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 9:14pm.

tell me your parents didn't waste college tuition money on your highly developed sense of diplomacy, responcibility, accountability, and critical thinking skills. if so demand a refund...

Submitted by Armchair (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 2:18pm.

thats a sound critique, pinot. thats the core critique of the whole mess, huh? i feel sorry for wes, because he can only articulate an initial strategy...the real strategy - the solid strategy, evolves later, functionally, in the field under sound leadership. the great tragedy here is that the current administration has held the field for years without engaging anything but failed-strategy and demonstrating inability to adapt realistically. how can we even know if this mess can be made right, if we dont have someone solid pushing a winnable effort to stabilze iraq to international standards? if we dont ask that question, the iraq blood spilled in broken-country-civil-war in the wake of our withdrawal will haunt our country for a very long time.

Submitted by icantbelieveimv... on August 29, 2005 - 3:11pm.

Exactly. You've captured exactly how I feel.

Submitted by icantbelieveimv... on August 29, 2005 - 12:36pm.

Granted, it's the 4th Quarter and we're down by 4 TD's, but before we throw in the towel, we might want to run a few plays with more than just the quarterback, center, and a wide receiver on the field.

Submitted by Mugsy (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 11:24am.

Clark was great on Meet the Press, challenging the military to stand up to the political leadership or resign, and discussing regional issues, esp. Saudi Wahabism and Pakistan.
I hope Clark will make a response to the Bozo on last Sunday's Face the nation (and with Paul Gigot on PBS) who said, referring to how the Iraqi constitution will encompass cultural differences such as women voting, the right to divorce, etc., that "women's social issues aren't necessary to the establishment of democracy". Shades of the Taliban--almost makes you miss communism!

Submitted by Reverenddannyboy (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 10:36am.

We will never win a war against insurgents.Ever.Period.Imagine that the evil Canadian Empire forces their form of government upon the USA.We start hearing about the Canadians killing folks but not here it happened down in California or Nevada.Soon someone, a friend of a friend knows gets killed. Your aunt Mandy and her friend of 30 years, Becky get caught in crossfire on their way to Nordstroms.The second grader next door and 11 of his classmates are killed on their way to school. Your mother gets blown up when the Canadians take out a nest of American insurgents the next block over. What will you do? I would wager that you would fall into one of three catagories. 1. You are unaffected and do nothing 2.You see the waste and futility of war and vow to work for peace 3. You vow to kill the Canadian bastards any way you can forever, shot them, poison them,burn them, strangle them whatever and however you fight until you die and raise your kids to kill Canadians until they leave. This is Iraq friends and since we really have no intention of packing our bags and moving there "we" will never win.If you have the stomach for it I challenge you to look at the pictures of carnage that everyone else in the world has access to. Look at Al Jazerra, the BBC, French news and look at the baby terrorist insurrectionists, the old lady enemies, the little girl haters of freedom, the playground potential bombers that we are killing in this "war".We were the insurrgents when we kicked the British out of our country. We will never win this war and long after this regime of criminals leaves Washington we will pay and pay and pay with blood for meddling in the business of a sovereign nation. Our great grand children have enemies that we are making now in the middle east.

Submitted by Bill Arney (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 2:24am.

The motives seem simple enough.

In 1999, before he even ran for president, George Bush decried his father's failure to take Bagdhad in Gulf War I. He bemoaned the fact that his dad had failed to cash in on the political capital he gained by invading. "If I get a chance to invade," said W, "I'm going to use the political capital to advance my domestic agenda." We now know that his "domestic agenda" was to destroy the New Deal and every other social safeguard the citizens of the USA have built for themselves. Only in that way can we all be subjected to the kind of robber barons that Teddy Roosevelt put the bridle on--the very same robber barons that put W in office.

As for Dick Cheney, he just wants a profit for Haliburton and their ilk, so he can be even richer after he's done screwing this country on their behalf.

Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and the other neo-cons wanted an American empire, with Israel as our pet.

None of these guys, except for maybe Cheney, are going to see any success out of this. Bush forgot that you have to win the war in order to get the capital (he was told that he would win by people that should have known better, being incapable of thought himself), so his grand plan is screwed anyway. The neo-cons are going to be discredited along with most of the rest of the crooked Republican Party, and if the Democrats can take back a house of congress in '06, there will be real, hardnosed hearings about all this. If we can get both houses, count on impeachment, not just of Bush, but Cheney too.

I think it's too late to win any "hearts and minds" in Iraq. We cannot fix the infrastructure, because the insurgents can blow up during the night any bridge we build during the day--just like 'nam. There is no way that any Arab-American civilians, whatever their background, can be convinced to volutarily go into that deadly quagmire we have created in Iraq.

I don't know what we can do, but if my feet were to the fire and I HAD to make the call, I'd advise the following:

Get the hell out. If we had "cut and run" in Vietnam five years before we actually did, there would be no difference, except that there would be about thirty thousand Americans and God knows how many Vietnamese still alive today. Before leaving, we should divide the country. If the Sunnis, who are responsible for 90% of the world's terrorism, and who ruled Iraq like a bitch for the last 30 years, don't get any oil--tough.

If we leave now, the Shiites will take care of themselves. We need to make sure that they have enough weapons to arm their militias against whatever the Sunnis have. The Kurds are more than happy with the piece they've got. If the Sunni's try to terrorize either of the two other groups, they'll get hell. This country is an artificial construct of the colonial Brits. It's not naturally a single country, which partially explains why it's always had absolute rulers.

End of story, unless you want to be there for about the next ten years at the same casualty rate we enjoy today, along with a trillion or two in cash.

Any volunteers?

Submitted by icantbelieveimv... on August 29, 2005 - 11:22am.

This is not Vietnam. This is now more closely analogous to the Balkans. General Clark has some experience with those type things and he thinks we've still got a chance to do the right thing.

Where is your experience, facts, evidence, research, etc. to back up your grandious statements that:

"Before leaving, we should divide the country. If the Sunnis, who are responsible for 90% of the world's terrorism, and who ruled Iraq like a bitch for the last 30 years, don't get any oil--tough.

If we leave now, the Shiites will take care of themselves. We need to make sure that they have enough weapons to arm their militias against whatever the Sunnis have. The Kurds are more than happy with the piece they've got. If the Sunni's try to terrorize either of the two other groups, they'll get hell."

You've done nothing but express a different opinion than General Clark's, which, is, of course, fine. But why would anyone believe your opinion over General Clark's? I mean, geez, if you come onto a guy's site, a guy with 34 years military and diplomatic experience, and cut down his opinion, you'd think you'd have something more to back it up than just words.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 9:31pm.

Dear Icantbelieve,

Ok, pick up a weapon and go for it. It's all you, baby. I'll promise to be at your funeral when you come back in a box after giving your life for . . . what the hell was it we are dying for over there?

But seriously, don't talk to me about this "guy's site." I worked damn hard on that presidential campaign. By every standard Wes ever expressed, my dissent should be welcomed, and listened to.

There are only two reasons I can think of for America to sacrafice its army, its blood, and its treasure. 1 - National security or other compelling interests. 2 - Genocide prevention. Looting a country's oil does not pass the sniff test.

Wes should know about reason 2. If he had even a handful of ground troops to provide some human intelligence in Kosovo, he could have cleaned up that mess in no time. We could do the same in Sudan. But NOOOO, Bushco only goes where there is oil to loot.

Wes should also know the expression: "One man defending his home is worth ten attacking it." That's from the Vietnam experience. You don't save a village by destroying it. The hearts and minds that we need to win over all know people who are dead or maimed because we are there.

I respect Wes' opinion, but don't tell me it's based on any information I'm not privy to. It's a tough call, I know. But there is no sense, in my opinion, of throwing good blood after bad.

As for backing up my opinion, I don't need more than common sense and a pretty good knowledge of military history (I don't even need the knowledge). Napoleon in Spain. The English in Sudan. The French in Algeria, and Vietnam. The Americans in Vietnam. The Russians in Afghanistan, and Chechnia. How many examples would you like?

Wes is offering an alternative strategy. He's good at that. But I'm telling you, the "window of opportunity" slammed shut many months ago--when we let the looting begin and disbanded the army. If we left Iraq tomorrow, the insurgency would last about a week before the Shi-ites put it down so hard it bounces. For that matter, I'd like to believe the Sunnis would not tolerate it, either. Without Americans and "collaborators" to shoot at, there is no reason for the insurgency to continue.

It's a failure. It was based on lies and such dumb assumptions that any teenager could have figured it out. Then every single move was so botched--like the first time you ever played chess. Nobody should be surprised it's not working. It ain't gonna work. Face it.

And finally, I don't mind saying that on September 17, 2003, the same day he declared his candidacy for presidency, Wes said that he would have voted for the war resolution act. That killed me, and the campaign was hobbled by it as it left the start line. So now he's offering alternatives? I think he owes us an explanation. What does he really think? Why did he say that, if he is going to criticize the effort? Is he saying that he would have invaded too, but done it differently? I'm not buying that.

And I'll get on this site and say whatever the hell I want any time I want. If you don't like a difference of opinion, go join the GOP.

Bill Arney
San Francisco

Submitted by icantbelieveimv... on August 31, 2005 - 7:45am.

It was a misquote that he said he would have voted for the resolution.

As usual, when you can't respond as requested, with relevant facts and information, you attack.

You've told me to go get killed. You've brought up a widely explained away misquote. You've brought up nasty things about the Bush administration that we all agree on.

So, lets go back to my original question. What FACTS do you have to support your conclusion that General Clark is wrong that the window is still open and that you are right that it's closed?

So, you say your "opinion" is right and Wes's is wrong? Fine. You are entitled to your opinion. But you're not making a single convincing argument as to why anyone should believe you over Wes.

Further, you've brought up the now irrelevent fact that Bush was after the oil. Bush was after the oil, yes. That was then. This is now. We shouldn't have gone in. But now we've set up the same thing we had in the Balkans. What shall we do, leave now and have to go back to prevent the genocide? Leave now and have to go back because the entire security of Europe is at risk from a massive war involving what was Iraq, Turkey, and Iran? You're fighting against Bush's war. And that's commendable. But the fact is, Bush's war has created a humanitarian crisis. Bush's war is over. We lost. You can stop fighting against it now.

Regardless of who created the crisis, when you can do good, you should. In order to disagree with Wes now, you have either backup claims that there will be no genocide and no grand war involving Iraq, Turkey, and Iran, or you have to backup claims that there is absolutely nothing we can do to help.

Yes, Bush's war is lost. But now we have a humanitarian crisis.

Submitted by rev,dannyboy (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 12:41pm.

You are correct it is not Viet Nam. Viet Nam had jungles.The "thinking" that got us to both is the same though.WE WILL NEVER WIN THIS TYPE OF WAR

Submitted by icantbelieveimv... on August 29, 2005 - 3:09pm.

This is more similar to the Balkans than to Vietnam. The thinking that got us in may be the same, but the situation we've created is very different. There not only WILL be a civil war in Iraq if we leave, there already is one.

Yes, we created this mess imperialisticly. Now we have to try to fix it as part of an international community. There's currently no reason to believe that a three-pronged approach cannot be effective. We have no way of knowing that because we haven't tried it there. We did try it in the Balkans and it was effective.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 9:58am.

iraq was, is and will ever be bush's BIG LIE--------that qualifies him for worst president in history, bar non.

the casualities break my heart.

before we are through, this will cost 1 1/2 trillion dollars in direct and indirect costs---much of it in VA Medical and veterans' benefits, and greatly expended VA budgetary programs.

Submitted by Yark for Clark (not verified) on August 28, 2005 - 4:45pm.

I think Clark's op-ed above can be broken down into about four sentences:

"It may already be too late to succeed (i.e., avert a total geostrategic disaster) in Iraq. If the US is to succeed, it will require a complete, 180 degree change in both the objectives and the means of attaining them. It is up to the Bush administration to either propose a change of course that will work, or to pull our troops out, as many Americans are already demanding."

That last bit is very important. IT IS UP TO THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION. It was their lies and poor decisions that got us into this mess, and it is their actions that have to get us out of it. Because it really doesn't matter what the Democrats do. It matters to the likes of us what they do, but in terms of what happens in Iraq it doesn't matter. The Democrats are *completely* out of power and control nothing, and the Bush administration won't listen anyway. No matter what position Democrats take, and they must take one instead of trying to avoid the issue, they must make it 100% clear that it is UP TO THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION. If we pull or troops out leaving a disaster behind, it has to be a result of THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION'S FAILURE. The blame must go exactly where it belongs - because you know that if they possibly can, Bush and the Republicans will blame the whole thing on the Democrats and the anti-war crowd, and if the Democrats and the anti-war crowd aren't careful, they'll succeed.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on August 28, 2005 - 11:53pm.

Classic liberal "plausible deniability". It's Bush's fault...right. what about the Democtratic Senators who voted to go to war with Iraq under the justification of the following:

Violated U.N Resolutions 678, 687, and 1441.

The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998...I think we all know who was President when that one was signed.

Get real guys. If you voted FOR IT, you are implicit in it's ultimate success or failure.

Submitted by icantbelieveimv... on August 29, 2005 - 11:16am.

General Clark advised AGAINST getting into this war. We do hold the ALL the Sentators who voted for it accountable. Go spew your "classic conservative ignorance" somewhere else.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 8:51pm.

Look at the post I replied to. It's the same Washington tired "well it's there mess we'll just stand by, critize and do nothing." that's why kerry failed to make it into office...no new plan.

As for wandering into the wrong site...looks like I'm in the correct one. You people don't know your history too well, so I will educate.

If you think I'm some neo-con, try again. i hate the "Righteous Righties" as much as I dislike the "Liberal Lefties." They both represent that which is the lunatic fringe of the political bell-curve.

Submitted by icantbelieveimv... on August 31, 2005 - 7:35am.

This is Bush's mistake, plain and simple. He took us to war. And he must fix it because he's in charge. Congress can't fix it. Congress only authorizes it, but they are not Commander in Chief.

Democrats like General Clark have given a plan. You're merely trying to divert attention from the fact that Bush has no plan by bringing up a now irrelevent vote in Congress (irrelevent NOW, not then).

If you're interested in talking about a NOW irrelevent bill, then you are definitely at the wrong site. Nobody here thinks anyone should have voted for that bill.

Let me recap:

1) That bill is now irrelevent.
2) Nobody here supported that bill anyway.

Submitted by Yark for Clark on August 30, 2005 - 1:36am.

Anonymouse,

The above, up there in that op-ed, looks like a plan. Russ Feingold has another one. Presumably, you have one too ... ? The problem that you seem to have trouble grasping is this: the only people who could implement any plan one might come up with are (wait for it) the Bush Administration, and to a lesser extent the Republicans in congress. Wes Clark is trying to Do The Right Thing - pressure the Administration, the only people who can do a damned thing about Iraq, to give our boys and girls the support they need, and hold the Administration accountable if (when) it doesn't. And how do we hold them accountable, class? That's right - by beating them in elections. Well, we'll have to settle for congress in the short term, but you get the point. The rest of the D party would do well to follow Clark's lead.

Speaking of adding nothing but criticism, do you have a recommendation for dealing with Iraq? I'm sure we'd love to hear it.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 10:36am.

UH- The vote was to give Bush the power to deal with Saddam, including going to war as a last resort. I think Congress abdicated its powers, but Bush was not "mandated" to go to war and certainly not mandated to barge into Iraq with no post war plan. Congress trusted Bush to be competent. He has proven once again that he is a miserable failure.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 8:53pm.

and 12 years of Saddam blatantly ignoring Hans Blix and then ultimately tossing all UN weapons inspectors out of Iraq certainly left a lot of diplomatic doors open.

Submitted by Yark for Clark on August 31, 2005 - 12:40am.

Mouse,

As we all now know, the weapons inspections were entirely successful in getting Iraq to destroy its WMD. They'd get close, and the WMD would be destroyed, or buried in the desert (which effectively destroys them - chem and bio have a shelf life). That's why when the inspectors went back in they found nothing. NOTHING. Exactly what our Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines found, even with Judy Miller's help.

I don't know about you, but with the inspectors back in country, I think we hadn't exhausted the diplomatic angle. Certainly war was unjustified - and who's decision was that. Oh, nevermind.

Bottom line - if you're going to try rewriting history, pick something else.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 10:09am.

bush lied about WMD and the war

he did not give full discloure to congress and the american people

he didn't tell congress or the american people there was a legitimate argument over the "aluminum tubes"

he didn't give congress a national defense estimate as requested prior to deciding to invade

he didn't even tell powell that the CIA intel was based on a single source, was shaky, & that "CURVEBALL" had not been debriefed

they deceived powell and destroyed the credibility of a patriotic, honest american

bush lied to the nation about the yellowcake; that was indefensible and uncorroborated

SO YOU ARE WRONG CONGRESS IS NOT COMPLICIT; THERE WAS NOT FULL DISCLOSED BY THE ADMIN----THE IRAQ BUCK STOPS ON BUSH'S DESK

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on August 29, 2005 - 8:59pm.

except Congress had the same access to intelligence that Bush had. Also, instead of burying your head in the latest NPR talking point why don't you do a "google" search in 'speeches about Iraq'. Go waaaaaaaaayyyyyy back to the mid 1990's and see if it isn't alarmingly similar rhetoric to the initial reasoning to go to war. Then go to the Senate or Congressional archives and look at all the floor speaches on this topic.

Then go and read the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998.

Then look at UN 1441 and see how it defines WMD.

Do some research instead of regurgitating Fox/NBC/CBS/NPR talking points.

Submitted by Yark for Clark on August 29, 2005 - 2:43am.

Anonymouse:

I reiterate, it was Bush's lies, Bush's poor planning, and Bush's bad decisions. It's his war, period. I can't speak for several Democratic senators, and I will not defend their votes. I will say they have had no influence on the course of events in Iraq whatsoever.

Bush has been president for five years, and his party has controlled the House the whole time, and the Senate for most of it. Stop blaming everyone else - it doesn't fly.

By the way - if you happen to see a few missing WMDs or bump into Mr. Freedom (I hear he's 'on the march' someplace), let me know.

Submitted by Joseph Brierley (not verified) on August 28, 2005 - 4:03pm.

General Clark;

Thank you, so much, for standing up for your convictions! We live in a time when too many people are lazy "rubber stamps." We live in a time when too many people falsely perceive the GOP as an infallible theocracy.

Before the Iraq invasion, I remember well the millions of people besides yourself that recognized the blunder that Bush was about to commit. I remember all the extreme war drum beating. You weren't alone in being inspired with your stance.

In Utah, where I live, the vast majority of my brothers and sisters profess to want democracy, democracy, democracy. In Utah, we for all practical purposes, have a GOP theocracy. But, a theocracy eliminates a democracy. The Iraq constitution, in essence, disallows for freedom of religion. It's new constitution calls for Islam as the "State Religion."

I served in the U.S. Army. Anyone who has served in the military knows that in general we forces want to fight. Those in the military are among the most prone to an addiction to war. There are far too few like you, that are willing to give that up for what is truly right.

Thank You, Joseph Brierley

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