Meet The Press - Sunday, August 28, 2005
Submitted by John on August 28, 2005 - 12:16am.
General Clark was on NBC's Meet the Press as part of the "War Council" with General McCaffrey, General Meigs, and General Downing to discuss the war on terror and Iraq this Sunday. Read the Transcript.
Read General Clark's Perspectives and join us today in re-capping the Meet The Press discussions on the War on Terror and Iraq.
General Wesley Clark's Perspectives on Meet The Press
Wes Clark is the only Gen, that stated the facts, initiated a strategy, dicussed the ultimate outcome as it is being handled NOW! Said it was a "Stategic Blunder"! He said, we need diplomacy with the neighbors. He didn't pull any punches, McCaffery agreed with Wes twice. Downing, coached by the Adminstration and put a positive spin...in my opinion! To some extent, so did McCafferty, also stating he was with the Administration, in going to war..geeze got to review before putting it on my PD.
Sounded like Wes, doesn't have a successful outlook for a year from now. He is the only one that stressed diplomatic stategy with the surrounding neighbors, and it it isn't accomplished, the region will be in Civil War. Not his words, but my conclusions.
He definitely showed his leadership skills in talking, not just about the military's role in this debacle, but what needed to be done at higher levels and how this administration has blown it .
The other generals were stuck in the minutiae of what the military was doing.
Wes was masterful! You can tell he has learned how to get the most out of the limited time allowed to him on these programs.
I can't wait to see the reaction on the blogsphere.
:)
Nothing is more American; nothing is more patriotic than speaking out, questioning authority and holding your leaders accountable. Wes Clark
Mad, that's how I saw it too. The other 3 all expanded a bit later on in the show, but it did seem that they were most knowledgable on troop levels and such, and the war aspect, as you would expect a general to be. But, Wes is so much more knowledgable, skilled and smart on strategy, leadership, and long-term vision. His comments were at a completely different level, in addition to military.
Wes came across as head and shoulders above the others in terms of his ability to communicate what is happening in Iraq in a way that the general public could understand and relate to. That is the mark of a true leader! While the other Generals were getting bogged down in talking about too many specifics, Wes was clear, concise and to the point. He was always in command and never had to use a "zinger" to try and cut the other Generals down, as Downing chose to do.
Was was superb in every sense of the word!
And the very first question was addressed to Wes. And, it was a question that related to both the military and political dimensions of the war.
Wes is the man to turn to for that kind of expertise.
Gen. Clark was amazing. He explained such a complex situation in such a simple way, but without talking down. He's so brilliant.
We should do all in our power to push forward pro-military, anti-Iraq War folks like Mr Hackett into Congress.
It is up to us!
Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.
~George Washington
Fox News Analsys under Gen Clark's name.
Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.
~George Washington
That was fascinating. It was like a fly-on-the-wall view inside a conference room at the Pentagon a decade ago--a bunch of very intelligent, very competent warriors, but with very different perspectives. BTW, McCaffrey was Clark's mentor/sponsor on his rise to NATO SAC.
There was general concensus on what Iraq would like in a year--one that I, for one, don't agree with (I think it will be much worse even than now). Only Wes addressed the 5 to 10 years out view. Repeatedly, Wes took it to the next, political level, and the others disdained him somewhat for doing so.
None of them are drinking Kool-aid at this point, in this discussion. All were somewhere between grim and dire, with each reciting a litany of failures. Clark was in the middle of the pack on that score.
It was different to see a show where the guests were actually intelligent and polite wasn't it? Very refreshing! I have to say, I didn't come away hating any of them.:).
It's very possible one or two of the other generals didn't completely understand all of what Wes was saying. They have studied the military aspects, but possibly don't know as much history, regional culture, and what's going on with the neighbors, etc. as Wes does. It's hard to agree with someone when you don't know enough to have your own opinion. So, they revert to what they think they know.
Also, Wes has a unique ability to see all sides, and to see the long range, where many people just don't. I don't know that these other generals are as engaged as Wes is in the subject, also. He is fighting for America, keeping informed, and offering ideas to help. I don't know that the others are, until they are called to appear on tv. (?)
Wes said it "depends on American leadership." That is the crux of the problem.
I was very impressed with Wes. His approach on MTP was very effective. The administration is not following an effective strategy. The need to engage diplomatically. He was the only one that impressed me. The others all seemed to be cheerleaders. I couldn't believe Downing blaming the news media. All the media are doing is being a cheerleader. People are turning against the war despite the media.
I can't wait to read the reactions on other blogs. I think they will be impressed.
Agree with all the commentary. Of all the times I've seen Wes, this was the best. He was at his starchly analytical best. I liked the way Wes jumped in to correct Downing's assertion that the administration is doing enough diplomatically after Downing contradicted Wes on that point. My fervent wish is that this MTP interview resonates throughout the blogosphere.
It was his efforts to take the long and broad view vis the geopolitical consequences that distinguished Wes's voice in the discussion. As always, on point, direct and clearly, plainly spoken. Interesting to see the non-verbal action as well--clearly Wes was committed to ensuring that his view would not be misinterpreted by Russert or Downing.
Refreshing, too, to see a table full of grown-ups actually talking substantively about this disaster. Even Russert mostly refrained from the cheap shot and sound-bite tease.
Absolutely. And, Wes got his rebuttal in.
For the first time, I can also say I thought Tim did a good job. He called a couple of them on their remarks and pointed out arguments. He had follow up questions and comments.
I surprisingly enjoyed the format in that each man was given fair time, and they were NOT interrupted. I guess that's what happens when you get civilized people around a table on a talk show. Been a long time since I'd witnessed it!
It was a pleasure to watch this panel speak coherently and also be given an opportunity to finish a thought without having some nincompoop cutting them off.
MSNBC just intervened in Hurrican coverage to showcase "Your Meet the Press Moment." It was a clip of.... you guessed it... General Wesley Clark!! Tim Russert asked him what would happen next. Wes's reply focused on diplomacy. Then Russert asked him another question (about what the results were likely to be) and Wes replied with several possible alternatives, including civil war. Wes stressed the U.S. needed to be leaders in this diplomacy, etc. etc.
So, THAT is "Your Meet the Press Moment" from the entire show today. It looks like these two questions and responses are going to be featured on-and-off during the day on MSNBC.
I didn't know they did that as I only get CNN, unfortunately. What good news for us.
"It's time to protect our nation and take it forward. No party can do it better." - Gen. Wes Clark to Arkansas Democrats, 8/13/05
WOO HOO! Way to go, General Clark! You made us all very proud.
Gee....I wonder how many supporters the other Generals had hanging on their every word while they were on MTP this morning?
Wish I had seen that!
:)
Nothing is more American; nothing is more patriotic than speaking out, questioning authority and holding your leaders accountable. Wes Clark
Awesome is my word for the day! :)
I kept the recorder going after the show 'cause Chris Matthews comes on here right after, so I'm taping that and blogging instead of checking other news.
I am sure the other generals must get so jealous. But, when you shine, you shine. I'm sure Wes can't help it!
Sometime during Wes' active campaigning, early on I think, there was an article in a magazine somewhere that referred to Wes as a "Water Walker." It referred to the jealousy that existed among some in the official military ranks related to his success, his looks, his supreme intelligence, etc.
That leadership was certainly in evidence on MTP today!
.......article about him [and some others] from early on in his career.
Nothing is more American; nothing is more patriotic than speaking out, questioning authority and holding your leaders accountable. Wes Clark
Thank you, General Clark
by suzq [Subscribe]
Sun Aug 28th, 2005 at 08:45:15 PDT
for articulating my evolving stance on the discretionary Iraqi war in which we are involved.
I just got through watching the roundtable of generals on Meet the Press. Tim Russert was asking some pretty pointed questions. The one voice that rose above the rest with the most cogent explanations and analysis was Gen. Wesley Clark.
He says we are disregarding completely one tool we need to combat the insurgency: constant, persistant, PUBLIC diplomacy.
So my new stance is the one that the General articulated in yesterday's Washington Post op ed on Friday.
* suzq's diary :: ::
More below the fold.....Plus a poll
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/28/114515/040
Nothing is more American; nothing is more patriotic than speaking out, questioning authority and holding your leaders accountable. Wes Clark
Thank you! I wouldn't have looked until tomorrow. Didn't think they could get it up that fast!
Everyone, dKos has a thread every Sunday about the Sunday shows. It seems to be dying out; people are losing interest, or enjoying summer Sundays. But, it would not hurt to do a little posting that you saw the show and what you saw. People will continue to drop by during the day and tonight.
It needssome love....
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/28/114515/040
Nothing is more American; nothing is more patriotic than speaking out, questioning authority and holding your leaders accountable. Wes Clark
I hope several of you can stop by both threads. The daily talk show thread is a regular feature, and people do come back to see what they missed while they were out playing. They often look for rundowns of the shows.
Although a different subject, there is also this thread at dKos:
Wes Clark's comment about Cindy on WaPost live blogging.
He has sure been in the news!
I checked the talk show thread at Kos, and its so full of pictures now I don't know if anyone will look at it. Try and go to Crooks and Liars, and ask them to put up some clips of Wes on MTP. That way a lot of people who missed it will get a chance to watch some of it.
Oh Judy, I don't know if you might be on dialup, I am too, but as far as the pictures, they are the highlight of my Saturday every week. They are screen captures of the news shows during the week and other events. They are so worth looking at. Lots of people love that page! :)
This week shows pictures of all the protest signs at Camp Casey, Gas station price signs, hillarious real tv graphics about Roberston, Bush polling numbers - "A NEW LOW," other items in the news. It's a real recap.
link to Sunday Talk
If anyone was worried that Gen. Clark was going to be seen today as just "one of the retired generals," he certainly laid that to rest. Even reading the transcript as I just did, he was a standout. He has a knock-em-dead position on Iraq policy. It will appeal to anyone of any persuasion who has any common sense, and it is unassailable.(Seriously. What's not to like?)
Nothing is more American; nothing is more patriotic than speaking out, questioning authority and holding your leaders accountable. Wes Clark
I know what you mean. I was simply blown away by him today! I think Downing was getting perturbed by the way Wes just took command of the room, just by being who he is. Downing had to interject that little, "I'm giving you this without any political motive" comment. It was so small-minded of him. It made him look bad, imho.
Command Presence
Yeah, that's it!
:D
Nothing is more American; nothing is more patriotic than speaking out, questioning authority and holding your leaders accountable. Wes Clark
the changing minds notion. You have to invest people, get their time and their interests tied up with you, and economic factors underly every decision people make. You change minds by making it worth their while to cooperate, and he has said so in the past. I hope the wingnuts don't acsuse him of believing you can talk a fanatic into capitulation.
OT, haven't they always said a storm surge of 15 feet would destroy, not damage, destroy New Orleans? And this one is 25 feet? Or just 25-foot waves, not the surge?
....and it's at high tide.......it will be very grim for NO
Nothing is more American; nothing is more patriotic than speaking out, questioning authority and holding your leaders accountable. Wes Clark
B-B-Qing while a catastrophic event grinds our way. This is way behind a little excitement for 24-hour cable and the Weather Channel. Now, do we have oil rigs in the path too, to screw up gas prices and the economy even more?
I remember reading something in the past few months about New Orleans, where they were talking about the effects of a tsunami, should one hit there. Sorry I can't remember the source now, but basically what they said was the city is surrounded by berms to keep flood water out, and if a tidal wave were to hit, it would have the effect of filling a bowl with no way to get the water out. Obviously a huge disaster waiting to happen.
Nothing is more American; nothing is more patriotic than speaking out, questioning authority and holding your leaders accountable. Wes Clark
dealt with that. We had been a block north of the line requiring flood insurance with your mortgage. They were at the extreme southern edge by the little levy. This was a violent July storm in Illinois in the 80's. The berm trapped the water. Of course eventually it drained away, but that was weeks later. In the meantime, they had belongings in their basement bumping against the basement ceiling, all hardwood floors buckled on the first floor, appliances ruined, dry wall damaged. We had moved away, but went over to pick up their laundry and bring them food for weeks. The lawns were mud, ruined belonging piled high on every curb for a long time, and the smell of drowned earthworms just about knocks you out!
but it was a highlight (for me) out of all the wonderful remarks that General Clark made just now.
Diplomacy seemed to be the issue Wes wanted to stress, so.....
"Its about changing minds more than its about killing people."
I simply loved that! Thank you General Clark for a brilliant MTP appearance.
I tried to take notes, but got too caught up - - but one of the few things I did write down was that quote! Perfect. Reminded me of his remark about how you can't "change hearts and minds by bombing them." I'm sure that's not the direct quote, but something like that.
I hope that quote made it into the transcript!
Yes, brilliant.
Good point, It's about changing minds before it's about killing people is in the transcript. We have included a link to the transcript at the top of this page.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9064938/
The audio is also available in mp3 format at this website
as I said on a dead thread this morning that it's already too late. I know if it isn't we must surely be down to about the last couple of months during which Iraq can be pulled out of the fire. And if it goes into the abyss, it's going to be an unholy disaster. Those poor people. What have we done. Wes Clark's approach is workable and doable. But what are the chances George Botch will change course now? Slim and none. And Slim just left on the last stagecoach.
You're right, John. As Jon Stewart keeps saying, nevermind policy and politics, this administration's incompetance is the issue. And certainly the Sunnis know we are out of troop deployment choices come next summer, so their arrogance and stupidity have set the very timeline they claim to abhor. The only question left unanswered is how much BS they can shovel on the voters by November 2006.
Thought it was one of the best panels I've seen for years. Bright, articulate, men not screaming at each other. None of them were too kind on BushWorld, with Downing basically acting as the Bush apologist. I guess I would like all these guys on my side during any conflict, but Wes rose to the top with his more broad-minded approach and overall knowledge of the geo-politics of the entire area. I wish there was more coverage of the body language and subtle eye-rolling and facial reactions to some of the comments. What there was was priceless. If you haven't seen this program, see it; if you have, send it to others.
Why?
wish there was more coverage of the body language and subtle eye-rolling and facial reactions to some of the comments. What there was was priceless.
Hahaha! Oh yes, I have it recorded and will have to watch again to pick that up. I was paying attention more to the words on the first go 'round! I think all the generals did a great job of being mature and polite (except for the one "waaaaa, I'm not being political" remark), while on camera! Would love to be in the green room, if there was one. I doubt they chatted it up and invited each other over after the show! haha.
But, all in all it's to be expected and it's perfectly usual if not normal human behavior. Wes could be friends with them, but could they be friends with Wes? It's lonely at the top, and he is at the top of his game and heads above them.
It was a service to us all that MTP gave us today. A real panel discussion with real points and with gentlemen enunciating them. And with General Clark taking command. And Tim deserves to be complimented on his mo
I think we are witnessing, though we must focus on 06, the beginning of the campaing for 08 with Wes out of the gate like a shot...
Gotta go fine the email to Tim and his bosses...
I'm pretty sure the e-mail addy is Meet The Press Mailbox - don't know if Tim has one himself we can use. I'm going to write him too.
Great job, Wes! Geez - he makes me so proud every day to be a Clarkie!
One more thing I have to get in - I loved the way Wes pointed out (pointedly) that the administration would be bringing some troops home just in time for the 2006 elections! ROFLMAO!
What was that? I'm so sorry! This newfangled website has me all discumbubbled!
Okay: mtp at nbc dot com
I'll figure out the right way to do it later (before I post again, lol!)
But, if it happens again, remember, we can now edit our posts. You can go in and delete the offending line. But, if you reply to the post, then you can't edit it!! I learned that the hard way too.
It would be great if the Admins or JOhn (are you here JOhn?) could go in and fix it!
There is something wrong with how this is configured because you did it right. You should be able to simply post an email address and have it come out correctly. It even says so in the instructions. Somehow it is configured to change it to ascii and it messes it all up.
I see you updated the top, and also have the transcript at SA.com. You all are doing such a fabulous job. Thank you so very much, because it affects all of us. I love knowing that the General has such competent people beside him. As smart as he is, he really can't do it alone.
ignited WWIII, declared martial law, and suspened elections.
It's so painful to listen to Wes's strategy and tactics for the Middle East and know that Bush's team lacks the will or ability, if they had the credibility, to do a thing to defer the coming firestorm.
And not even a despot can be seen to cooperate with this administration now.
We have nowhere to go with policy until Bush is gone.
to encourage him to have more panels like this. Wes, among his peers, showed why he streaked to the top of the military during his career. he does not modify his views in the face of stiff, though in this case polite, opposition. He is a leader among those who are leaders. His command presence was awesome.
Here is where to write Tim:
Hey, wasn't the General right on with everything he said on MTP? I could tell that everyone else at that table knew he was right, even if some tried to say they disagreed.
approach in a flatland world. Gen. Clark sees it all--and gives the glasses to the rest of us.
aka sc
later on MSNBC. 7:00 pm, 10:00 pm and 1:00 am, but this is PT so check local schedules.
Read transcript.
General Clark, our hero, is the only person on MTP who spoke eloquently, brilliantly and truthfully. As usual.
General Clark was brilliant as usual.
I just posted this on Kos. I wonder what kind of reaction will come from the mix of people there?
http://securingamerica.com is posted on Kos and elsewhere, but when you reach the front page and scroll down to:
"Join us at the new CCN"
leads to the old site.
to Gen. Downing disagreeing with Wes on diplomcy happening, just not visibly.
On another blog, I suggested that Iraq was on the fast track to explode into 3 smaller countries. Another poster (Downtown) suggested the following disturbing possibility.
Iraq won't break into three smaller countries, well it may for a few moments in times.
I believe you're alluding to a Kurdish nation in the North, a Shite in the East and a Sunni to the Southwest in a Division (and the Sunnis would get the smaller part.)
But Turkey and probably Iran will over run the Kurdish area killing all the Kurds. G.W. will look the other way because Turkey was an important ally during the Cold War. He may say something Against Iran, but it will be difficult to attack Iran and pretend that the Turks aren't killing the Kurds at the same time.
Meanwhile the Shite nation will be annexed by Iran and the Sunni nation would be annexed by Saudi Arabia.
It would be the end for the Kurds and the Shites and Sunni would probably have borderwars for a few centuries.
And of course everyone will justifiably blame the U.S.
And this could happen because the Iraqis are being hustled so that Bush can withdraw troops in time for the 2006 election.
I'm having difficulty holding in my contempt for George W Bush at this moment.
Anyone wanting to see Meet the Press again can Tune into MSNBC at 10:00 p.m. ET tonight.
Mary Jo
.....even though I watched and taped it this morning.
:)
Nothing is more American; nothing is more patriotic than speaking out, questioning authority and holding your leaders accountable. Wes Clark
Turn to the TVGuide channel, ....that's my daughter, Betsy, on TV Candy!
I was so very proud to be a Wes Clark and WesPAC supporter this morning. Wes was extremely well-spoken -- as eloquent as I believe I've ever seen him (and I've been watching for over 2 years now).
My new favorite word -- my favorite idea -- is diplomacy. I am very glad that Wes made that one of the cornerstones of his remarks today. I have been thinking all day about how much our nation and our world needs diplomacy -- in Iraq, cetainly, and on an international level, but also on a personal level. Mr. Incognito and I began thinking about all of the ways we could make better use of diplomacy in our jobs, our roles as parents, our relationships, our everyday lives as citizens of this nation -- in every facet of life we need to continually remember the values of diplomacy -- respect, communication, integrity, reason and principle, among many others. What a better world it would be if we all made a greater effort to employ diplomacy as Wes Clark explains it and lives it himself.
I am a firm believer that the change I see has to start with me, so along with a renewed commitment to WesPAC, I am going to renew my commitment to practice active diplomacy in every part of my life.
His program was a slam dunk and I wrote to let him know I really appreciated his having General Clark on as well as the other generals.
Let him know it has been a long while since I had watched his program and really appreciated his having General Clark on, since I am a Clark supporter.
Hope Mr. Russert's email bag was full to overflowing after today's show.
Thanks for the link, Linda. I finally got a response sent on to MTP. I hope Russert is receiving a mailbox full of praise for having the generals on and suggestions that he feature Clark more often!!
Gen Clark's thoughts on Iraq made it into an ABC radio report today. Only brief, but good to hear him quoted as an expert.
The World Today - Monday, 29 August , 2005 12:42:00
Reporter: Leigh Sales... LEIGH SALES: Others are less optimistic, including prominent Democrat Senator, Joseph Biden.
JOSEPH BIDEN: Well, the bottom line is, at the end of the day, if the Sunnis and that entire portion of the country opts out of this process, that's a formula for civil war.
LEIGH SALES: General Wesley Clark, the former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, adopts a position somewhere between President Bush and Senator Biden.
WESLEY CLARK: I think there's a chance that this can be worked out, it's a political process, and that's the process we want. We've got a choice. We're going to go forward and try to make a political process work, or we're going to let it disintegrate into a civil war, and a lot of it does depend on American leadership, whether we like it or not....
Full Transcript (includes link to audio of report)
You'd be taking them to the Better Business Bureau if you bought a washing machine the way we went into the war in Iraq. Wes Clark, CNN Aug 17 2003
..was a scathing indictment of the current policy and administration but no mention of the long-term implications for national security.
They touched briefly on what Iraq will look like five to ten years from now (Gen Clark: something we're not proud of having created).
What they did not touch on: It may very well become a direct threat to *us*, the citizens of the United States. Regardless of whether it leads to a post-Vietnam style decline in our force structure, we could potentially be facing the threat of a Shi'a nuclear armed superpower declaring jihad on the west in general and America in particular.
One of the generals (I believe it was Meigs) threw in a freudian slip referring to Iraq as Vietnam, which got a chuckle from everyone at the table. Iraq is not Vietnam. It's potentially much, much worse if we don't get serious about it now.