Wes Clark: Where is the New Commander?
Submitted by Bernie Quigley on February 15, 2007 - 2:20pm.
Bernie Quigley
Haverhill, NH
Wes Clark: Where is the New Commander?
I wanted to express some likes and dislikes as it feels now that we are at the end of something but not yet at the beginning of something else. In fact, we seem to be at the end of so many things; the end of the century, the end of the millennium, even the end of a Platonic Age which is said to bring a turning of the human spirit every 2,000 years or so.
We are certainly at the end of our country’s New York Centuries which, since Alexander Hamilton, would change the world in so many ways, and just at the very beginnings of our Pacific Centuries which are sure to do the same. Already, the Titan has arrived on our Pacific Shore riding his Big White Horse, Pegasus. Until this day we were a North and South nation. No longer. Now we will be East and West. And we will travel this path now for as long as we exist as a people; for a thousand years or so – what preceded so far since the Roanoke landing was only prelude.
I’ve never been so proud to be part of politics as I have been in the last three years. Actually I’d never been part of the public dialog and passage before. I do simple work in life and have esoteric concerns. But crisis, the deceptive and misguided drive to Iraq, brought out a necessity. And since I first stood six feet before Wes Clark when he signed the book in Concord, New Hampshire, to enter the primary, there has built in this country and in the Democratic Party a new beginning. And like all things which last, it begins with a new attitude and a new sense of will; a self-assurance and an unfettered desire to face the crises ahead head on.
Wes Clark brought this forth, challenging the official deceptions at every turn, and bringing in with him new people. Many of them were veterans, some veterans of the war on Iraq. No one was more dedicated to the task of bringing in the new House and Senate in the ’06 elections, here in New Hampshire with Carol Shea-Porter or in Virginia with Jim Webb, in Pennsylvania with Joe Sestak and Patrick Riley and across the country in red and blue states alike.
It is a new sensibility. It is a new Democratic Party. It is a new political culture for a new century. But centuries do not begin at the turn of the clock. The old politics refuse to die for a decade or so well into the new.
And that is what has been bringing a disturbance. As said, my interest in politics is only secondary and my innate directions are elsewhere, generally to religion. So what I have to say is not as a professional, but as a citizen.
Daily now I am concerned about fast, naïve and panicky actions on behalf of Democrats. Yesterday, the Governor of Virginia, who I ordinarily respect, endorsed a candidate for the ’08 Presidential race a full year before the major primaries take place, and probably before the best even arrive on the scene. The day before that, a stand-up comic announced his intentions to run for Senate as a Democrat. Will irony stop malfeasance and illegal politics? I think not. It was the assurance that the others would only respond with irony that enabled the brute to power in the first place. Another announced candidate hired bloggers well-known and notorious for their anti-Catholic screed and was slow to fire them when this was brought to the attention of the public.
These are not issues with any specific individuals. They are symptomatic of a general condition of the public which I would call at best a satisfied malaise, at worse, a smug and nihilistic defeatism. We have come to accept as public practice strategies and attitudes that should be completely unacceptable in public dialog. For example, if you were to go back and look to the major blogs and follow the discussion on the anti-Catholic bloggers, you would find a discourse akin to what one would expect on The Jerry Springer Show.
This bodes poorly for the new generation coming up, many of whom are claiming Democratic allegiance: What should bring shame brings vitriol; what should bring disgrace brings instead a false sense of victory. The public discussion has been territorialized by its darkest side. This is bad for Democrats and for the country. This is a great boon to the Republicans.
I do not particularly want a Democratic Party in which the President proposes to hire Goldman Sacks to run the Treasury. That is not Democrat; that is Republicanism with fanciful hair. I do not want a party in which a Democratic mayor of a major city will hire Bain & Co. to run her or his city accounts – it is a masquerade; it is dress up. There is no doubt in my mind that Mitt Romney’s old firm would be very good at that kind of work, but why would I want to vote for a Democrat who is going to hire Romney to do the work of governance?
What I want in the Democratic Party is when a candidate says: “I take full responsibility,” it implies that she or he will accept and internalize the failure and not seek further office and find instead a more appropriate path in life. It is something we used to take for granted. Now “I take full responsibility” only asks that we change the subject
I do not want a candidate who claims they should be the President because they got the highest mark in law school. That does not necessarily prepare one for President. It prepares you for post-grad work and perhaps the quiet life of the chaired professorship.
I want a candidate who says, as one did recently, that he hopes no one votes for him just because he is black. But I do not want one who just the same accepts the ride nevertheless.
But we are getting that up here in New Hampshire. Recently, the leading fund-raiser in the state proposed that one of the candidates hold off on announcing for awhile to “get some stuff done” in the Senate. Ruth Marcus, Washington Post columnist, asked the same for another announced candidate the same day.
It is good advice for a kid who wants to be President: “Get some stuff done” first. But not for one who wants to be President the year after next.
Here in the Northeast we have developed a negative state which I have seen growing for 35 years now. I take it arises from a shift in power from New York and Boston to Texas and the West. We tend to call failure victory. I think it started with the nomination of George McGovern, who lost 49 states in 1972. We became proud of that failure and still are today. I saw it again with Howard Dean. His campaign in ’04 is constantly referred to as a victory on the blogosphere. It was not. It was, of course, an abject failure: He ran for President. He did not win even one state as George McGovern did, nor even a primary.
This attitude does not bode well for Democrats in the upcoming election. It will send us the way of the Whigs. It puts us in the position of defending the indefensible and diminishes our spirit.
We need to change course. We need to find that spark which Wes Clark lit in race after race across the country in ’06 and nurture it. I’d like to propose that we form a new group within the Democratic Party to explain who we are and to tell what we want and to make clear our intentions. It would be a group like the DLC, formed to consolidate a new attitude; an attitude which respects veterans, which expects duty and responsibility of its citizens; an attitude which will respond to public villainy with something stronger than irony in its opposition. And it would be a group to express clearly that we will not be passed by; not by Republicans, not by other Democrats, not by anyone.
Jim Webb awakened our spirit into the world in his address in opposition to the President’s State of the Union a few weeks back. It sent a heroic wave of confidence and élan across the country and even here where we sit under three feet of snow in the mountains of New Hampshire. The other day I saw a bumper sticker which said “Webb” on a car with New Hampshire plates.
Like Clark, he brings forth to the light into the republic; a yearning that the rest of us have felt these past two or three years. Webb also expressed the effectiveness of the political strategy that I call The Bruschi Theorem. Our own famed New England Patriot Tedy Bruschi says, “When you throw a block, your opponent has to feel some pain.”
Webb did so. His talk of “Robber Barons” and Wall Street salaries in which the chief executive makes as much in one day as the average worker makes in 21 years hit a cord. Three days later, the President made public addresses in opposition to said salaries. They felt the pain. They responded. It will be more than irony or the deconstructivst pout from the new people in Congress. They became actually afraid, which was the intention.
These past weeks I received emails from a woman I was great friends with as a child but hadn’t heard from in 43 years. Her son, it turned out, now 25 and a West Point graduate, had been working on Patrick Riley’s campaign. She wanted to know what I thought about the current campaign.
It brought a great recollection of growing up together on the ocean in Tiverton, Rhode Island, where we played on the beach as children in the salt air, and sailed small boats in competition. In old New England towns on the Narragansett Bay each region had its own class of sail boat, and ours was designed by Commander Wood, a retired Navy man.
Commander Wood brought an old New England spirit to our town. Every day, into his 80s and beyond, his face torn open by skin cancer, he marched down the wharf alone to sail - undefeated, undefeatable, invincible - in one of the small sail boats he had designed for us.
I don’t think any of us ever heard him speak and certainly we never spoke to him: It would be like speaking to Triton or Poseidon. But he was a part of us. And he made many of us, like my friend and I, whose grandparents were born in the same town in Ireland, a part of the new world and its work and a part of New England. Even a part of the ocean as we experienced it on those chilly New England mornings. That’s what we needed, I said: A new commander.
he's a little more pre-occupied with keeping us out of war with Iran rather than his own political future at the moment.
What I'm tired of is people seeing this as some kind of defect.
I guess I'm just not cut out for this whole political thing.
I think it's laudable and honorable that he's so worried about working this Iran thing in the most effective manner that he's willing to put whatever political ambitions he has for himself on hold.
Yet I get the feeling I'm in the minority on that one.
Are you saying he is more effective in what he is doing now? OK then don't talk at the DNC winter meetings with Presidential candidates!
to be patient. General Clark knows the mistakes he made last time and will not make them again. It really isn't too late -- all the contenders who have jumped in already are way too early. People are going to burn out on all this media hype chit, and really at this point that's all it is.
We are not dealing with a numbskull here. Please try to have some patience and trust! ;)
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right. - Hunter/Garcia
I don't know how many times I've said this, but here goes again. The DNC invited all POTENTIAL presidential candidates to speak before there were any announced candidates, at the time that included invitations to Kerry and Bayh. The fact that Kerry and Bayh had said they weren't running meant they didn't get to speak. The fact that Clark hadn't announced by 2/2 didn't change the fact that he was a POTENTIAL candidate, because he hadn't said he wasn't running, and his invitation stood. The invitations never changed from potential candidates to announced candidates. And, you should remember, that just because someone forms an exploratory committee doesn't mean he'll actually end up being an official presidential candidate. Remember Bayh? Remember Graham from 2004?
The fact that others have decided to jump in earlier this year with their offical announcements or announcements of exploratory committees followed almost immediately by their official announcements is based on their thinking or judgment or positioning or whatever. If there's anything a supporter of Wes Clark should know is that he's his own man, he's going to do what he thinks is best for him, his family, and his country, and he's going to do it on his own schedule, not mine, not yours, not the media's or the pundits, not Edwards' or Obama's or Clinton's or anyone elses.
You can either buy into all this there'll be no campaign staffers left, there'll be no money left, you'll have to raise $10 million by March or $30 million by June or whatever all the other know-it-all predictions happen to be and drive yourself and others crazy, or you can just sit back and wait for Clark to make his decision in the thoughtful and grown-up way that I, at least, have come to expect of him.
influence the well-paid campaign "advisers" have to do with all these guys jumping in early. For them, it's more big $$ at the hog trough and a few extra months of living high, of course.
Wes 08
presumptous of you to speak like that of our General on his site. And you're the guy who wanted us to join his group that was supposed to be supporting General Clark? Wonder what your definition of support is?
arrogance is another's potential ..... I hope you don't judge me that way ever I bite remember? HAVE WE HAD ENOUGH OF DIVISIVENESS (sp?) TODAY
SYB be kind ......
Can Congress help America vote (act) yes it can - The Voice ~ Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you - Carl Jung
here is why I called up up today SYB; you always made me feel unwelcome from day one and many times thereafter; I have seen you do it to other people so I thought I go over to John's side today as long as you were dividing ....us all up
I like to quote a Bmoon comment she made to me when I complained about CCN; paraphrase this is a rough room....
third day of fever so excuse me if I don't go toe to toe with you SYB today I will give you a rain check if you want but I'd rather shake your hand 1/20/2009 in DC
edit: oh yeah sorry Bernie nice blog ....... but a weird day
Can Congress help America vote (act) yes it can - The Voice ~ Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you - Carl Jung
I wouldn't characterize my comments as
"dividing us all up", e.b.
For having made personal call-outs
on a CCN thread however, you have just earned my
endorsement for top shit-disturber of the week.
congratulations
Watch and listen...
up to periscope depth SYB ........ you get the last word 'top shit disturber' PROUDLY going to make it as a pin for you chest one of these days
Can Congress help America vote (act) yes it can - The Voice ~ Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you - Carl Jung
Well, we know that he's advising Congress regarding Iran right now. Maxine Waters said as much on Hardball the other week....
And Wes said that he felt that if he was a candidate, everything he said would be looked at through a political lens and he felt that would be detrimental in this instance, so you should be having this argument with Wes, not me.
As for speaking at the DNC winter meetings, well, he was invited and apparently he felt he had something to say that he felt needed to be heard and I do think he is seriously considering a run.
Obviously you don't agree with me on this but I don't know why you felt the need to rate my comment a one.
I'm sorry you're so bent out of shape about this whole thing. Thanks for the work you're doing with that DNC group...which I joined when you mentioned it a while ago and have no intention of leaving.
Take care...I'll leave you alone now.
MATTHEWS: Do you believe the president has the constitutional authority to launch a war against Iran without congressional approval?
WATERS: Oh, absolutely not. As a matter of fact, General Clark and some others saw this coming, and they have been talking with many of us about directing our attention toward the fact that the president was moving toward Iran.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17049478/
"Some of them put on their cowboy boots and put their feet up on the desk." -Wes Clark
One: We don't know how effective he is with what he's doing now. It's alll in the background. But when I hear Wes' words coming out of Senators' and Congressmen's mouths I can tell he's making an impact. To paraphrase the General, 'The measure of success is getting your ideas accepted.'
Two: I say wait awhile and let Hillary, Obama, Edwards, et al, to beat up on each other for a time. They'll all look like damaged goods when the General gets in.
Three: Wes has to make a living. He doesn't get to live off the Gubment trough while campaigning. He'll have to give up his other jobs.
That's all, for now. Chill.
"Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words."
The Smart Surge: Diplomacy
By Wesley K. Clark
Monday, January 8, 2007 Printed online Jan. 7, 2007
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/07/AR2007010700980.html
Jan. 9, 2007
Patrick Murphy
And Rep. Patrick Murphy, a Democrat, said: 'What we need is a surge in diplomacy, not a surge in troops.
http://www.topix.net/content/kri/3528876873028505779425196657780513946200
Jan, 11, 2007
Dick Durbin
If there's any surge that's needed in Iraq, it's a surge in diplomacy," Durbin said.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/10/us.iraq/index.html
Jan, 12, 2007
Senator Klobuchar
“The great burden on Minnesota and the rest of the country should remind us that what is needed is a surge in diplomacy and not a surge in troops.
http://klobuchar.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=267910&&
Jan, 14. 2007
Barack Obama
Obama said he supports a "surge in diplomacy" in tandem with a phased redeployment.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/14/ftn/main2359098.shtml
Jan, 16, 2007
Bill Richardson
The only surge that should happen is a surge in diplomacy, a surge in a political solution.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16656999/
Jan, 23, 2007
U.S. Rep. Ralph Regula
However, I feel that we must complement any action in Iraq with a surge in diplomacy.
http://wwwc.house.gov/regula/stmtsotu2007.htm
Jan. 31, 2007
Madeline Albright
"I think we need a surge in diplomacy," she said.
http://www.thepoliticalpitbull.com/2007/01/albright_i_support_a_surgein_d.php
Feb. 6, 2007
Congressman Mike Thompson
“As someone who served in Baghdad with the 82nd Airborne, I can tell you that what’s needed in Iraq is a surge in diplomacy, not an escalation of force.
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/pa08_murphy/2607ObamaIraq.html
"Some of them put on their cowboy boots and put their feet up on the desk." -Wes Clark
hopeful, Chris Dodd also used Wes Clark's phrase on Hardball the other day when he said 'what we need is a "surge in diplomacy" ' (without further attribution).
So I guess Wes's phrase has become part of our language on Iraq.
I loved Bernie Quigley's piece because it reminded us of the good things in our lives, the mountains of New Hampshire, the coast of Rhode Island, the ocean, friendship and so on.
And we are all concerned that other Democratic hopefuls who in our judgement have not proven to be as qualified or experienced or able or courageous or committed to democratic values as we believe General Clark is are getting all the attention. I too was disappointed that Governor Kaine made such an early endorsement.
On the other hand, as Woody Allen said in one of his movies: "the weaker ones panic". Let's not panic and forget that one of the reasons we believe Wes Clark would serve us so well as president is because of his very fine judgement and critical thinking and strategic analysis.
Should Wes Clark not run, we will always know that he would have been the very best that ever was. And this country will have lost an opportunity to get back our moral strength.
We're probably at a pivot point in our history because the cannibalization of our national wealth by Bush cronies is accelerating.
And we might all have to face the further deterioration of what was designed as a beacon for governance and is on the precipice of destruction from hubris and greed.
In our hearts we will know that had more of us understood the enlightenment that Wes Clark's high caliber leadership would offer us, we might have had some hope for reversing the damage and renewing our democracy.
It's now up to Wes Clark himself to make the decision.
When I get discouraged I feel that the human race has some reptilian genes that underpin some of the tenth rate actors in our political life. Usually it seems the reasonable voices are drowned out by the intimidation and threats of the bullies who are determined to win at any cost. And when I'm especially discouraged and see so many of us succumb to the intimidation of the bullies, unwilling or unable to recognize true leadership over neocon madness and hubris, I feel perhaps our genetic destiny is to self-destruct and there's nothing a small handful of us can do about it. (Remember Robert Frost's poem "Fire and Ice"?) When I feel this way, I wouldn't wish the presidency on Wes Clark just because I think so highly of him as a person and wonder whether it's worth it for any of us to take on a battle against overwhelming odds for the "good fight".
On the other hand, I think Wes Clark has proven that he has an incredible amount of heart and courage and love of country and he'll make the right decision for the right reasons and with his family and the people of this country in mind.
Today I'm feeling hopeful.
on the public discourse and suggests opportunities for us to reinforce Wes Clark's political creds. Have you looked for other examples?
You are not alone.
If Wes doesn't even want to run at all because he feels he can do more in another way (perhaps like Al Gore might), then I'll be perfectly happy with that. And I'd still quit my job if I could help him (although I doubt he'll need as much help if he's not running) and I'll still support his PAC.
We'll follow the old man whereever he wants to go...
that makes me proud to support wes, and
proud to be a Clarkie
WES RAISES THE BAR:
"Country Before Party"
Bill (from RI)
you're definitely not alone.
;-)
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
I do two things. Look for signs :) as MSNLA says. And I Watch and Listen as Sybil always asks us to do . And I have noticed little things that definately shows signs (or as I would say hinting) of a very possiable run by Clark. And I really think he is going to. Clark is a brilliant strategist. And he will announce when he is good and ready. And not a minute before. Don't want him peaking too early ya know? I am just as anxious as other Clarkies are for us to get going. But I will stand by Clark no matter what his decision.
I am hearing little noises made by Clark which shows there is at least an interest there. I think he would have let us know by now if he wasn't interested at all.
Just wait a little longer guys and gals. We will be ready for the long distance marathon when he announces.
Run Wes Run !
Clark 08 For President
But right now the DNC Partybuilders group is hemorrhaging. And were losing members left and right! And yes, I am really not a happy camper right now. If Clark's work is more important to him than running for President than that's what he should be doing. I am not a genie, and I hate crystal balls. I don't like guessing and I don't like watching the parade go by without my candidate. I believe in leadership, direction and communication and I don't see any of that happening.
John
I have been around CCN long enough to notice that some of the old Clarkies are starting to come around again. And we have even been picking up a few new members here as well. True Clark supporters will never abandon him. Others that have were probably were never true supporters or only showed light support. We all are sitting on the edge of our seats waiting.
I trust Clark enough to believe he knows what he is doing.
Right now he is trying to stop the Bushies from starting another war in Iran. And I imagine trying to get all his ducks in a row.
I think there is a 95% chance he will run. And a 5% chance he won't.
Run Wes Run!
Clark 08
..there has been some hemorrhaging.
But most of them will come back when Wes announces. It's going to be a Wes Frenzie....just you wait!
It's only February 2006!
So far the front runners have been getting into all sorts of trouble. Early announcement hasn't worked so well for them.
Best that Wes keeps his powder dry and announce when he's ready....(no later than mid March, please;)
Run Wes Run!
about your DNC Partybuilders roll call then you are about Wes Clark making the decision that is right for him & his family. I doubt very much if America really cares, at this point. It's only political junkies and the 24 hour cable news channels who are looking for fodder for their constant game of political GOTCHA who seem to be paying much attention. It's still really early!
Personally, I'd rather Wes enter this race fully prepared for what he will be faced with during the coming primary year. He said, if he decided to run again, that he'd do virtually everything different. Well let's allow him the luxury of working out the particulars of his campaign.
It's going to be his life and his a** that's on the line.....not yours. I understand that you are anxious. We all are. But I suggest you take a chill pill. Wes Clark is far too honorable a man to keep us all dangling unnecessarily.
And your dead wrong about what's important in my life, it certainly is not this group! You don't even know me or my passion for real
People and a real government by for and of the people, your smart rears remark is uncalled for. If you like I will dissolve the group now just to make you happy.
I understand it's frustrating. I understand that some days it feels like you're all alone and the only one that's interested.
What would be more helpful is if the DNC site was promoted a little bit to lift all the boats that are in there, but as it is, it seems that very few are even interested in that site overall.
Tomorrow is another day.
Deep breaths, warm cocoa, maybe some toast slathered in real creamery butter (or a nice slice of cheesecake...it'll be out of my oven in less than 2 minutes)
We're all overwrought...we've all gotten up on the wrong side of the rock...we're desperate for a real president.
At the end of the day, we all really are on the same side.
Cocao, butter & cheesecake. Yes that proves it. I also cannot wait for the announcement. I spent part of my snow day watching Clark in Texas. I also want to say that that was the best introduction for a speaker I ever hear. I suspect it was easy considering what he had to work with.
We're with Wes!!
is committed to a better future for this country, for our families and our friends. I suspect but do not know that the disagreement we're seeing here is among, dare I say, the impetuousness of youth and the experience and nuance of older people (I'm a granny myself and I think I look at things differently now than when I was young.) You may be 95 for all I know but perhaps you are fortunate to be young. If so you are part of the future that everyone here wants to protect.
So please take a few moments to understand that none of us have much power over the course that our lives take. Only a few decisions might mark us as who we are. I think Wes Clark is the very best candidate we could have. Whether he runs in 2008 or not will not change that.
There's little that any of us can do right now except to watch and wait.
In a way this is one of the most interesting times in history. We will see if this country can recover from the human disease that many other countries have succumbed to in history....triumphalism and greed are the symptoms.
Anyone who respects General Clark for who he is as a person is a Clark supporter. None of us alone control our destiny as a country.
Should Wes Clark enter the 2008 race it will be more than a political marathon. I don't want to sound melodramatic here, but it will be a fascinating heroic battle of right vs wrong.
It will be the fight of our lives to restore our democracy.
helped 42 candidates win; they can lend him trained experienced staff; they can contribute to him; they can give him their fund raising lists ......... if those 42 candidates still want a democracy they will and his campaign will happen faster than you can blink an eye..... timing is important in this election more than any other I can remember;
Can Congress help America vote (act) yes it can - The Voice ~ Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you - Carl Jung
Actually, I'm having great fun watching the candidates and media fall all over each other. I'm also getting some projects done and some sleep. I'm at a low stress level, since I'm not finding things in the media that p**s me off every day.
I'm making lists of things to do if/when he announces, but in the meantime, enjoying time to myself and not worrying what I'm not doing any time I chill out for a while. I'm also getting through the 40 hours of "The Winds of War" and "War and Remembrance."
Life is good 'cause panic may be right around the corner.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
If not now, WHO? If not now, WHEN?
BE THE CHANGE you wish to see in the world.
(no, this is not a post about Iran ...!)
Stan, "Winds of War" and "War and Rememberance" are two of my favourite books ever. By the time I finished reading the two massive volumes I felt like I'd lived through the second world war myself.
But I've never seen the mini-series -- which is what I'm assuming you're referring to.
Love to hear what it (they) are like.
You'd be taking them to the Better Business Bureau if you bought a washing machine the way we went into the war in Iraq. Wes Clark, CNN Aug 17 2003
Yup, on DVD. Or should I say DVDs. They come in three lumps: Winds of War, and War and Remembrance Vols 1 & 2. 18 or 19 DVDS in all, each about 2 1/2 hours except for a couple, which are longer. Vol 2 was shipped from Amazon today (Thursday).
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
If not now, WHO? If not now, WHEN?
BE THE CHANGE you wish to see in the world.
My favorite video of WWII. I read the "Rise and Fall of The Third Reich" while in Germany. That was an eye opener too.
Another good book on that period is
http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Valley-Panorama-1930s/dp/0375408819
Dark Valley highlights the history of all the countries involved in WWII chronologically. World economic upheaval led to the rise of minority fascist type governments all over the place. Even in Japan it was a minority politic that eventually wore down the moderates and took over.
You shouldn't assume that people are leaving the party builder group because General Clark hasn't announced and/or the folks are going to other candidates. I left the group yesterday, and speaking for myself, it had nothing to do with either of those scenarios. You can email me through this site if you want to discuss offline, since I won't be posting here again until April or May.
Proud to be an American.
I'm sorry, but I just don't understand this obsessive pre-occupation with him making an announcement. It isn't only you, Mr. Ballard, of course - it's pervasive on the blogs, and frankly, distracts from the discussion a diary such as Mr. Quigley has posted should generate. (and I now apologize to you, Mr. Quigley, for doing the same!)
Daily Kos is rife with it - even if General Clark isn't mentioned in the diary itself. The moment someone mentions his name, the comment threads buckle under this ridiculous 'when is going to announce' speculation.
Don't get me wrong - I think it's wonderful so many people think so highly of him. I agree with the assessment, obviously. But good God, give the man a break! I looked through the more than 800 comments posted to his recent diary on Monday; anyone want to take a guess how many comments asked a question relative to what he wrote? Less than 10%. That's not only pathetic, it's insulting to General Clark in my opinion. Care to guess what the hot topic was??
I am utterly amazed at the amount of time and energy so many supporters spend parsing his every utterance, trying to gleen some hint of his intentions. Why not spend that time and energy a little more productively...like going somewhere where you can actually talk to people who don't know who he is, and enlightening them?
Some of his supporters almost seem to take it personally - as though his lack of an announcement to run or not, is a personal assault on their desires and schedules. In the case of fewer, it seems more an assault on their own agendas to be the next Kos/Josh Marshall, etc, or next genius political strategist or communications guru.
Whatever General Clark's personal reasonings are, they are just that - his and personal. He has repeatedly told people, publicly and privately, he hasn't ruled out running. Why isn't that enough of an answer for some of you? Why must you persist in pounding him on this? Do you really think that's going to get you the answer you want when you want it, or any sooner than he's ready to make it?
"...get you the answer you want when you want it.." And these would be the operative words in all this, wouldn't they. How sad is that.
Yeah, I'm getting impatient, and yeah, I'm looking at every last detail to see if I can glean an answer from it, but some of that's just a joke, ya know? I mean, whenever Wes announces, whatever he announces, it's OK with me.
You did a great job deflecting whatshername...bethany?...on Kos yesterday. She sounded like some junior chipmunk tabloid reporter trolling for an exclusive. I've never seen one person work so hard at trying to bait you into giving her an answer that would sound like something she could use as, "...and according to a close friend and supporter of General Clark, HE'S GOING TO ANNOUNCE ANY SECOND NOW!"
Bunny, you have risen from your lair, not unlike a lion who lies in wait for the right time to pounce on his prey.
My position asks the following: When would have been a good time for General Clark to announce:
1. Last fall when Barack Obama was on the cover of a number of national magazines, on Oprah, every major television network, and stories were being written about him in dozens of newspapers across America, or,
2. The week President Ford and James Brown died, or
3. At the same time John Edwards announced, or
4. During the week the Democrats were celebrating in Washington, or
5. The week Hillary Clinton announced?
Should he have announced before he had truly made his decision, and before he has assembled the most basic of staffs?
Each candidate should be able to give his or her rationale for seeking the presidency. General Clark is weighing that rationale. If he can't explain the rationale, he won't run.
Have we fallen into the same mindset that got us John Kerry in 2004: "Let's get it over."
The media is rich in derogatory reporting of Edwards, Obama, and Clinton. No reporter can write incessantly about these three. No network news producer will schedule the same newsmakers if there is someone else worthy.
If another CREDIBLE candidate comes into play, the media will latch on to him, quicker than you can say "Slobadon Milosevich."
And, oh yes -- about the money.
Well, if it's going to be ALL about the money, General Clark, do yourself, Gert, your family, and all of us a favor--don't run -- because you aren't going to win the money war.
But look what the New York Yankees high priced payroll bought them recently: Into the playoffs, but no championship.
I had a dream this afternoon. A late afternoon nap brought Wes Clark and a couple handfuls of familiar Clarkie faces to my living room. Wes was sitting on the far end of my sofa with everyone circled around him.
There was one new face in the group, although familiar, had not been present in past meetings. David Gregory, chief White House correspondent, was taking notes.
I'll take it as a sign!
"Some of them put on their cowboy boots and put their feet up on the desk." -Wes Clark
Presidential candidate endorsements (91+ / 0-)
I have a great regard for Tim Kaine, and I also have a great regard for Barack Obama. At the same time, I believe it would be inappropriate for me to be endorsing any candidate for quite a while. The Democratic Party has a very strong field this year, and it's a long way to 08.
by Jim Webb on Thu Feb 15, 2007 at 02:47:00 PM PST
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2007/2/15/164028/169/197#c197
63 recommends for that comments when I was on the page; it has been a few hours since then. I liked that comment :-)
Can Congress help America vote (act) yes it can - The Voice ~ Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you - Carl Jung
and say "It's a sign!"
I have no idea what Jim Webb intends to do, but he's right.... this is a marathon - not a sprint.
I'm glad it was David Gregory,Ruthie.
Even if it's a usual wish-fulfillment dream,
may as well dream for it all.
Nothing like having a true
professional journalist getting
the truth and reality of a
story that's so important to us.
What an artist you are in your
the inner night movies you create!
Sofa, Wes there and where he's
sitting, David Gregory complete
with notepad...
But, not a word about Wes'
tie? (Maybe if you think back...)
Clearsky
Gordon: I think that General Clark has been waiting for an entry point if there is one. So far there has been no entry point. That is, I do not believe it would be useful to join the general discussion among candidates at this point because there is no relevant discussion. And if the Democratic Party is to go the way of the Whigs in 2008 as suggested in the Steve Jarding and Mudcat Saunders book, "Foxes in the Henhouse" - then it would better for him not to enter this time at all. From my point of view I think the Dems are going there right now. The situation parrallels the 1840s and the divisions growing between red and blue America then - the existing party discintegrated and a new strong party rose in its place. Which is sort of my point in this essay. The new people like Carol Shea-Porter and Jim Webb and Patrick Riley seem to have little in common with the Hillarycrats - and they have more in common with red America than Nantucket. A new entity could well grow from that and JIm Webb and Wes Clark would eb the avatars of it.
and would be regret if he left to campaign for H or O ... he knows Wes is best but it is hard on everybody being on the underdog's team waiting to GET TO WORK for Wes;
Can Congress help America vote (act) yes it can - The Voice ~ Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you - Carl Jung
Let's not start beating up on each other. CCN has a history of it in stressful times. Maybe it's time to bake brownies or something.
a fine line when there is tension in any group will break negative or positive... the truth is healing let's admit we are all on pins and needles and John is not alone and he is in the best place he could be with WES
Can Congress help America vote (act) yes it can - The Voice ~ Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you - Carl Jung
should trump all else and keep those of us who blog those glorious raves silent perhaps?
Get up on the wrong side of the rock today did you John?
Failure in reasoning - therefore, invalid:
You may very well be tired of waiting for his announcement
However, your tiredness does not equal a seemingly silent Clark
Wes Clark is hardly Seemigly
Nor, hardly Silent
Learn about Wes Clark and you will learn how Apparent he is
There is no one Equal
Shame on you Mr. Ballard.
Using a petty -0- ratings tactic on my comment.
In spite of my not agreeing with your comment, you will note I did not rate your post down. Instead, I chose to express my opinion openly to you directly.
I further note, your comment suggests Wes Clark as appearing seemingly silent, which frustrates you, yet You Seemingly and Silently mark my post -0-. Now come on now.
Funny how that sometimes happens to us, the very thing we don’t like in others, is often our own behavior.
I suppose my best advice for you is to try and be patient. Have faith, I have faith in Wes Clark, I have faith he will do the right thing. He really is trying to better our tragic situation. And, after all, isn’t that what counts?
Peace
that the Democratic Party needs either a refresher course (too late, I know), or a new wing. The old entrenched establishment Dems are too cozy with the same Corporate interests that the Repubs are beholden to. I can't imagine that our new Dems -- Webb and Tester among them -- agree with or are comfortable with the likes of Hoyer, Emmanuel, etc. General Clark definitely doesn't belong in this group of Corporate Dems and for that reason I fear many of them will turn their backs if he throws his hat in the ring.
Found this interesting article in the archives of AlterNet by David Sirota:
People Party vs. Money Party: Who's Who Among the Democrats
Perhaps we could be known as the Democratic People Party.? (And refer to the others as the Democratic Money Party!)
Thanks for another interesting read, Mr. Q!
Oh, and CarolNYC -- I'm with you. I refuse to let Corporate Press decide a year out from the first primary who our candidate will be!! General Clark is certainly no fool, and will enter the race when he's good and ready. I will patiently wait and prepare.
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right. - Hunter/Garcia
as a member of the DPP I nominate Jen to tell the DNC we exist :-) That is a great article; seriously the only thing we need do with the corporate money branch is challenge them; first incorporate ourselves collectively and as share holders lobby for our issues that way- raise campaign money that way and contriubute to worthy candidates that way; the DLC is ready to cut the progressive left loose with the 2008 election anyway so we should act to consolidate and make our intentions clear the democrat platform the DLC campaigns is a virtual platform but for the DPP it is a real platform;
Can Congress help America vote (act) yes it can - The Voice ~ Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you - Carl Jung
I believe you're right about the DLC being ready to cut us loose. We should really call them for what they are... DLC = DMP!
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right. - Hunter/Garcia
triangulate us right out of power - netroots grassroots gone poof from the DLC they are just waiting out Howard Dean.... and
that is the other reason BIG BIG reason I don't want Billary for nominee; we are going to get our pink slip... so either we start a new third party from the ground up with our pennies or we make our progressive DPP the backbone of the so called Democrat party;
Can Congress help America vote (act) yes it can - The Voice ~ Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you - Carl Jung
The night of the last election watching the DMP fan out, already with their message of how the results clearly showed a rise of the conservative Dem., I wondered what I was doing supporting this farce.
Anyway, they were forced to back-walk a bit, but I'm keeping a wary eye on the workings of the DLC. Crumbs from their corporate table will never be enough to fix what ails our country.
Just as a country cannot survive with private militias within their borders, so too, the Democratic party will fracture with this other party hiding under our name. Pitching a big tent makes sense; however, that big tent to cover a party of clear and agreed upon principles. Unfortunately, DMP wants to decide every thing that is served on our menu, and thus, we're asked to swallow the poison and just "shut up."
This will not do.
You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.--J. V. Marley
for how long has 'this other party' been 'hiding?'
I think their 'secret' agendas have been well hidden, as in COEHM. Dems agreeing on principles, I think, is virtually impossible. (cats, anyone?) Its too late at night/morning to present this rationally, but its not good news. How I wish we were closer; it is a BIG country.
How much money I contributed to Tim Kaine and ask for it back.
Wish I could recommend this twice Mr. Q...
and we are not surprised
at Kaine's endorsement.
Watch and listen...
me too pia...the most inferior types
of men usually show their true colors
early on...
chameleons
I'll wait for the General, thanks,
his colors stay true. Even in hot water.
Watch and listen...
I know people are antsy, but let's not start eating our own.
n/t
Can Congress help America vote (act) yes it can - The Voice ~ Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you - Carl Jung
Spinning around in our chairs.
I'm ok with waiting a while longer. I'm personally sick of the whole IDEA of a Primary by now. I'm getting all kinds of chores done in the mean time. ;-)
Some things are bigger than even Gen. Clark. I am sure he's in no real position to stop the Bushies Iran Agenda either. If they won't even listen to their OWN comrades and Generals of the Wicked Right they're for sure not gonna listen to Clark. He oozes Clinton memories for them.
Gore is the next big ticket item coming up for the news services I think then after THAT perhaps he'll know or his son will have finally relented and told him he no longer "prays his father will NOT run again." (according to a friend of mine who heard it from him directly in Venice, Calif recently) unless she's a liar (which I doubt).
real work to learn to exist as an advocacy group with potential for real power....it is about learning how group power works best; our goal is to accumulate people who want to turn advocacy into real political power; yer life my life John's life is more important than political life; politics is so sticky and like quicksand and hard to dis-engage from it in order to have a life; at same time be not so dis-engaged that one feels that opportunity is passing us by......
Can Congress help America vote (act) yes it can - The Voice ~ Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you - Carl Jung
It is slimey. Mostly because once you've participated (or become aware) you are forever bound to keep watch otherwise lose sleep. (or so that is how it has worked for ME especially since 2000)
I'm not in it for the fame, the glory, the rubbing shoulders with the famous or infamous, or to be published........ that's not my reason for such good attendance to what's actually going ON around Washington. It's because I no longer TRUST my government to either be HONEST or ABLE to be trusted to do the right thing in a crisis. (over and over)
I can't buy a candidate, I can't support a cause other than with my own observations from WATCHING. Perhaps making me a lesser Clarkie (what ever) ........ perfection is a tall block to fall off of........
I am getting tired of his silence on this matter and tired of others blogging these glorious raves about a seemingly silent Clark.