nt

these on CSPAN too, Shortie. Maybe check the site. Also, I think the DNC also has these up on their site. Maybe you can catch it at a different time. I'd like to hear it too.

However the radio address is usually rather brief, so we can probably catch that and a good portion of Wes in Miami.

And then there the multi-taskers!

(Peggy Noonan on 3, tho!)

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan2.asp

http://www.cspan.org/watch/cspan2_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS2

synthetic environment Democrats break your heart but GOP just boys you'd never go out with anyway - Nora Ephron

Thanks.

So? Waiting?

Listening to this guy... unbelievable.

Bremer - Bremer - Bremer...

Imperial Life in the Emerald City- literally sitting on my end table, to be read right after the Shock Doctrine but might not have time until after the holidays- 

When he did that house party for Eric in September. He said they went down to Bagdad to work out funding for something, and they found everyone in bathing suits sitting by the pool sipping martinis. He said they just turned on their heels and walked out; they decided to figure it out themselves.

NOW!!!!!

nt

Nation Security Strategy of Engagement and Enlargment

"Some of them put on their cowboy boots and put their feet up on the desk." -Wes Clark

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

What am I missing?

'Sounds like an ad for a men's pharmaceutial item!'

What did he say?

the audience to participate in politics - demand to know more than talking points from their representatives and the candidates

synthetic environment Democrats break your heart but GOP just boys you'd never go out with anyway - Nora Ephron

to a question about why there is no outrage. Wes said, in so many words, that the reason there is no outrage in the country for all Rajiv(?) said and what Wes had told the audience is there because there is no draft. That...

This came about way back with Nixon and the volunteer Army. The govt could hire and pay the troops to do what ever an administration wanted and the population wouldn't squak too much cuz only 1% are affected. A draft would change that cuz more people would be involved and facing the ultimate sacrifice.

(my paraphasing....Wes said it better and more concise and he wasn't advocating for a draft :)

'threat.'

How true.

Ellen.

As Wes has discussed before....if we just had the dialogue on a draft...where we are headed if we don't change the strategy and how we can't keep this up.....people would sit up and take notice. Just dialogue....again..not advocating for one.

I think you were there at the speech when he talked about that. :)

June 12.

and he's discussed it on several occasions.

Of course with these chumps, if we'd taken time for dialogue about draft, we'd not have gone beyond Afghan.

Thanks, marinerfan. I just wasn't clear which statement shortie was talking about b'cuz Wes also clarified on his draft run for president. And I very much liked what he said about that!

I've been hearing mention of a draft often from Wes lately. (Reading at each signing, the first chapter of his book as he has been doing even...paying homage to those magnificent draftees and rightfully so.) Not advocating perhaps, but no longer denouncing it either and calling for the discussion.

It's going to be very difficult at this point, the "draft discussion" for any Democrat who "sat on their hands" so-to-speak (that's about as generous as I'm willing to be) while Wes was giving testimony.

It was more convincing way back when Rangel proposed a draft the first time, in my view. Now there is little justification for forced service to clean up a criminal mess in the ME that the powers-that-be in our party have been more than willing to accommodate and even yes, escalate.

"We are involved in an endless War for nefarious purposes. There hasn't been anything like this since the founding of our Republic, in my opinion." -- General Wesley Clark NYC 6/19/06

It was good to hear him speak about his draft too....and set the record straight!

As far as the military draft....well...you know Wes...he won't not talk about it cuz it's a difficult disscusion to have. As far as the "Dems"....it don't think they have the....uh....fortitude?...to talk about it now. So, I doubt there will be a "discussion".

And remember Wes said...oh...2 1/2 or maybe 3 years ago now....if we don't do something to change the strategy we're going to have to do something cuz our troops can't keep this up for much more than a couple more years. They just can't do it. Those couple years are long up.

I am NOT for a draft. I do not want anymore kids and families going through this hell. :) I want the strategy to get changed so our kids can get out safely and back home where they belong. But that's just what I WANT.

Oh, I definitely think there should be a "draft discussion and dialogue". It should be put to the Dems. In fact it should be put to all of the Dem candidates now. Right now wouldn't be soon enough for me.

The fact that I personally happen to find it "troubling" is all the more reason to have that discussion and not tuck it away until after the election...if that makes any sense.

As for the rest...I want what YOU want.

"We are involved in an endless War for nefarious purposes. There hasn't been anything like this since the founding of our Republic, in my opinion." -- General Wesley Clark NYC 6/19/06

It makes sense.

Not sure it will happen, tho.

too bad there isn't some way for Wes to force the issue

even more troubling...

"We are involved in an endless War for nefarious purposes. There hasn't been anything like this since the founding of our Republic, in my opinion." -- General Wesley Clark NYC 6/19/06

before the primaries, not after

"We are involved in an endless War for nefarious purposes. There hasn't been anything like this since the founding of our Republic, in my opinion." -- General Wesley Clark NYC 6/19/06

It's not like he had to talk about it today. I think he's working it in.

for why there is no outrage. It was the first thing that came to his mind, I think. Then he eleborated. It's true. Many of us have said this before....the reason why there is no outrage.

"No draft" means not enuff are sacrificing to be touched by it and outraged by it. That's all it really means, I think. Having the complete dialogue is a whole nother thing.

I'm noticing less and less coverage of Iraq. People are angry about it and tired of it....but it seems like it's just a part of life now. It's just there. People are mostly putting up with it and say they hate it in polls and stuff. They say, "I hate this "war"". But they aren't FEELING it. Ya know?

Vietnam got like that. It was on the teevee all the time, tho, and it was ugly....it became just a part of life....just there it seemed....and people were angry and hated it. But there were more people affected by it....so there was more outrage. More were FEELING it.

Anyways....I think there's a couple things Wes is trying to say when he talks about a "draft". This was just about the no outrage part.

Hope that makes sense.

Wes talked about that too. And it's about Pakistan and Turkey. Like Ritter said recently, "Iraq will have to wait."

"We are involved in an endless War for nefarious purposes. There hasn't been anything like this since the founding of our Republic, in my opinion." -- General Wesley Clark NYC 6/19/06

But I don't think he was talking about the draft in this context today. I'd have to listen again to be sure.

I remember him only talking about the draft in the reason for no outrage context.

They are two different discussions, imo:

No outrage cuz there is no draft. A reason for no outrage. (doubtful if Wes would consider a draft to cure this)

May need a draft to fix this mess. A strategy. (he may consider one to cure this)

But he is NOT advocating for a draft to cure either right now. I just like to be clear about that for others reading along.

No, I was talking about media coverage. And I was talking about Wes talking about the PNAC agenda. It's moved on to the next regime to be changed in the M.E.

"We are involved in an endless War for nefarious purposes. There hasn't been anything like this since the founding of our Republic, in my opinion." -- General Wesley Clark NYC 6/19/06

I was hoping that they (Wes and Raj) would mention the media's role re: outrage, and I DISAGREE that people are tired of it; THE MEDIA IS LOOKING FOR ANOTHER WAR; the PEOPLE don't write the media's playbook.

The people I know are tired of it.....sick of it....want it to stop. The polls say they hate it. Have had ENOUGH! That's what I meant.

The media probly can convince them another one is a good idea, tho. Agree with ya there.

yes, he's working it in frequently, but without the discussion, it seems more to 'acclimate the public ear' to the concept of a draft

When do we get to talk about it? When we're actually confronted with it under a new president? I think it would advantage a Dem victory to have the discussion now. Not sure it's a disussion Hillary would be willing to have, but it would definitely be the right thing to do.

A public discussion might even halt the war drums over Iran.

Yes. That would be the right thing to do.

in my opinion

"We are involved in an endless War for nefarious purposes. There hasn't been anything like this since the founding of our Republic, in my opinion." -- General Wesley Clark NYC 6/19/06

and he's mentioned it a number of times.

HOWEVER, I think he's not likely to raise it 'seriously' now, due to his 'delicate condition.' He is, after all, viewed as her surrogate, and some over there might not want him to raise 'new' matters, especially this one.

If that's the case then I think Wes should stop raising
the issue of the draft altogether. I believe all it does is 'acclimate the public ear' to the eventuality of the thing.

Sometimes when he's reading the chapter at book signings, that's nearly what it sounds like after hearing it repeated a number of times. Having spent the better part of my life with a decorated combat vet, a "GI" government issue, I know that the service of an 18 year old "conscripted-hero", a draftee who never even had the window of opportunity to consider enlisting, can be righteously glorified, but the after-effects on his life cannot ever be. (my personal disclaimer - very)

"We are involved in an endless War for nefarious purposes. There hasn't been anything like this since the founding of our Republic, in my opinion." -- General Wesley Clark NYC 6/19/06

He'll raise it.

I disagree.

Not if there is something he feels is more
urgent and about which we know nothing.

I don't have that kind of blind faith even when he has his legitimate reasons, nor do I have blind faith that Wes better understands my personal convictions than I do. That is not his responsibility, it is my own.

There are actually one or two things about which I do not agree with Wes Clark and fwiw, that is nothing new.

"We are involved in an endless War for nefarious purposes. There hasn't been anything like this since the founding of our Republic, in my opinion." -- General Wesley Clark NYC 6/19/06

If there was something he thought was more urgent, then he wouldn't think it should be raised now, would he?

I said if he thought it should be raised now, he would raise it. And, yes, I do have that much faith in him. I don't think he's ever sat on anything he thought was the right thing to do because someone else told him to. I don't see any reason why he'd start now.

No.
And not if Hillary's camp thought so either.
Like actually getting the nomination.

And the draft discussion isn't going to help her do that.

(remember Haiti)

"We are involved in an endless War for nefarious purposes. There hasn't been anything like this since the founding of our Republic, in my opinion." -- General Wesley Clark NYC 6/19/06

I'm undecided myself on whehter the draft would ever be needed, or if I could support it. It's one of those areas where I can genuinely feel deeply about, and see both benefit and potential horrible consequences of both paths.

What I *really* want is a freaking foreign policy that is good enough that it never becomes an issue, and I don't have to go there.

just a few weeks ago in Malibu:

(from my blog)

In the Q and A's (only time for 2) one question was about Vietnam era war and protests versus today. General Clark brought up the draft and stated that; "We're not going to return to a draft. It's NOT gonna happen in this country..." But he ended by encouraging any parents with of age offspring to suggest and proffer the idea of service to them.

Makes me wonder if he has been pushing to bring the discussion up and he's been rebuked.

Ditto, because he's certainly expressed interest in 'discussion.' He described difficulty in planning for future w/o knowing numbers and/or events.

the subject was laced inside the question that the person presented him (re Vietnam vs Iraq and the protests/ lack of). The questioner asked if he'd felt that might be the main reason we weren't seeing the same response to this war/ these wars...
hard to keep all the endless global enduring wars straight-

Anyways, it wasn't Wes who brought it up. This time anyways. But I will be seeing him again in... 10 days!

Did he sound frustrated when he said it?

but that was that afternoon that he was a bit worked up over all the other stuff he was battling. Post Maher appearance, thick in the K/L fights and all. When everyone was in the book line afterwards I heard him say to one guy-- "So did I convince you to get your kid to sign up for service?" Or something to that effect - with that big smile. He's been pushing the increased enlistment plea since the first time I heard him speak here at a Four Star Dem event, way back when.

There has to be some more creative ways to induce young people to serve - should we ever get out of these godawful endless, enduring, global wars on extreme hate (GEEGWEH) that is. : /

STOP THE GEEGWEH NOW!

A full, four-year ride to college and lifetime healthcare for the whole family with no premium ought to be a good start.

Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Don't settle for less.
Make America All It Can Be!

: )

That's good to hear.

I rather doubt Wes can stop it tho, and it makes me wonder why, if that's a fact, he feels the discussion would even be required. I mean, I know Wes is scary smart far beyond my comprehension...

But I would love to ask him the question.

"We are involved in an endless War for nefarious purposes. There hasn't been anything like this since the founding of our Republic, in my opinion." -- General Wesley Clark NYC 6/19/06

this question is being brought up in the Q&A's at his events.

Thanks for this, ms....I don't think I remember seeing it.

Also, it is always fascinating to me to see so many who do not know about the "policy coup". The gentleman today, WWII vet, was a bit astonished about what Wes said had gone on in the Pentagon and asked the question about how people can become more informed to these things. So, so glad Wes talks about this!

Over the years "mistake" became "strategic blunder" and now "policy coup". I think "policy coup" best describes it. I think people really "get" that one.

I watch the audience at every one of his speaking events - a habit one develops from years of living with a singer... And each time the response to that story is varied. But Malibu event was most surprising. These were older upscale wealthy Dems and I had expected them to be informed about it. There was a hushed pin drop silence when he spoke and the look of incredulity on faces around the tent! I could tell they too had not heard about the policy coup. (And yep, that is the best framing I've heard for it)

I think maybe we get short sighted in thinking everyone knows because we are so steeped in the bloggo that it seems self evident. But imagine you still got your news from (gasp) the teevee? Yikes.

Now I have to run to hike my hill before the sun starts to sink!

the la and nytimes, etc, etc, etc.

In fact few know, and 'just' think these guys are incompetent.

You mean about him being drafted, Clark'04?

Or about re-instating the military draft?

"We are involved in an endless War for nefarious purposes. There hasn't been anything like this since the founding of our Republic, in my opinion." -- General Wesley Clark NYC 6/19/06

But not re-instating it. What they said up there...as a reason why the Repubs can get away with what they're doing.

"We are involved in an endless War for nefarious purposes. There hasn't been anything like this since the founding of our Republic, in my opinion." -- General Wesley Clark NYC 6/19/06

One I'll listen to a few times again.

"Some of them put on their cowboy boots and put their feet up on the desk." -Wes Clark

That explained a lot to me.

People want leadership......and in the absence of leadership, they will listen to anyone who walks up to the microphone.
Lewis Rothschild, in "American President"

It was the best I've seen him do explaining why he endorsed Hillary. It was also the closest I've seen him come to explaining away her IWR vote. Well, you can't explain it away... but it was the best argument for why we shouldn't hate her for it. He said he wouldn't have voted for the IWR but he would have voted for an IWR and the Dems have to fight the battle that half of them are NEVER for any use of force, so they couldn't get the right one done, so GWB was able to put them between a rock and a hard place. I don't know if that's really a legitimate argument, but it sounded pretty good coming from Wes--LOL!

He also talked a little more about his experiences with her (wish he'd say more). It just seemed more personal to me--not why *I* should support her by why *he* does.

In defense of Hillary, Wes sounded like Obama would be so thrilled just to be in the White House he'd be holding nightly raves. :p

Just another night in the White House for Hillary & Bill.

"Some of them put on their cowboy boots and put their feet up on the desk." -Wes Clark

yea, Wes knocked out a couple of good jokes today, didn't he?

"We are involved in an endless War for nefarious purposes. There hasn't been anything like this since the founding of our Republic, in my opinion." -- General Wesley Clark NYC 6/19/06

that was a stitch. Haha.

Switch from windows to real; worked for me.

synthetic environment Democrats break your heart but GOP just boys you'd never go out with anyway - Nora Ephron

Ouch!

His shirt? I missed it so will have to catch the night train.
I presume it's 8:45 PM here....

MS, if my arithmetic is right, it would be 10:45 p.m. your time (PST, with Chandrasekaran at about 10:00 PST), with the caveat that it could be earlier if C-SPAN2 edits/shortens the replay. There was considerable "dead time" between segments, and those might be edited out.

Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Don't settle for less.
Make America All It Can Be!

I hope it's not a serious burn :-(.

Gen. Clark, apply ice-cold apple cider vinegar to prevent blistering.