New Wes Clark Ad.
Submitted by mad4clark on December 5, 2007 - 2:33pm.
BTW......Wes looks and sounds grand! ;)
...to whoever made the embed link....Kat?
"The Right always knows who its enemies are" Lance Mannion
Cripes. This needs attention:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/5/1443/52198
Proud to be an American.
Talk about blowing with the wind. Good on you, Blue, for getting in there and stating your piece.
The "I thought he was great until he endorsed Hillary" line of bullshit over there is incredibly sad. Just goes to show ya. What? I dunno. Throwback to adolescent game of Survivor.
Save your money from netroots or netnation or netdominance or whatever the hell they're calling it (like it won't have kos lording all over it) and donate it to Eric or any other Wes endorsee for 08. Or just come back to Chicago and visit me. We'll go down to Millenium Park and run round the Crown Fountain in our underwear. It'll be fun, and waaay more productive than anything the Sanctimonious Party can put together.
Except the underwear part. Can I wear shorts and a dark t-shirt?
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
It's the best fountain for splashing around ever.
Good pics at this wiki entry...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Fountain
as in Crown family of Illinois?
as in General Dynamics owners and operators for many many years?
Just askin'....
NO BARE FEET IN THE CROWN DEFENSE CONTRACTOR ANTI WAR PROTEST FOUNTAIN-FEST IN CHICAGO!
Some of us have extreme naked foot modesty needs....
OK - you can wear socks. But you'll regret it.
I love the idea of a protest. I actually hate the name.
Underwear. Sox (you're all nuts) and we'll paint our bellies with anti-defense contractor slogans. The paint will have to be waterproof. I suppose we could use sharpies. It'll wear off over time...
composing the new Rock Opera
War Profiteering Sucks
It's only a working title for the time being.
I on the other hand am rifling through the drawers to see if there even is any underwear I would wear in public. Thinking of going retro and buying some 1920's bloomers.
....1920s bloomers would be my only option....really. rotfl
"The Right always knows who its enemies are" Lance Mannion
but these damn roots! There is no joy in hair-coloring land this evening.
But oh joy I love that picture! I want stars on my bloomers!
there are eight women in the photo and there are eight four star ratings on the post... all from women.
I presume we have each picked our costume from this photo?!
I get woman number 2 from the right-- in the bloomers.
....how awesome. I've love it....tho the high kicks are not what they used to be. ;p
"The Right always knows who its enemies are" Lance Mannion
And they donate scads of money to my wonderful liberal arts college. Go Figure. Maybe some of them have a better developed conscience.
Proud to be an American.
I think only three or four of them served on the Gen. Dynamics board. Henry Crown was the owner, a couple of times.
They anticipate near $30 Billion revenues this year. (Enduring war being so good for bizness)
Among new contracts garnered this week alone are:
12/04/07 U.S. Army Awards General Dynamics $16 Million for Abrams Tank System Technical Support
12/03/07 General Dynamics Awarded $91 Million Contract to Continue U.S. and U.K. Submarine Control Systems Work
So we know minimally it's already been a $107 Million dollar week for them. But, hey, it's only Wednesday...
Here's their most recent chart.
Your college should be gifted well ... :)
My nephew splashed around in it. But I honestly think I'd be arrested if I was in my underwear...
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
I never go over there anymore either. Just too depressing. I stick with MotherTalkers. I'd rather talk about my strong willed four year old LOL.
I am thinking about a trip to the Windy City next summer. I'll be sure to pack an extra pair of undies. ;-)
It's just not...although he certainly is widely admired and the most popular blogger around. But sure, a better use for anyones money would be to donate to Eric Massa! www.massaforcongress.com
Actually, I think Markos needs to be ignored.
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
It will get us...or Wes, nowhere.
It's sniping plain and simple.
"The Right always knows who its enemies are" Lance Mannion
Blood drive, anyone?
http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/13950#comment-258765
Proud to be an American.
I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong, only that I've about had it with Markos. LOL!
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
does need attention. I agree with you Nelsons. I am just not sure anymore if piling onto those long comment threads is useful or effective. I have not really commented much since the endorsement but I have kept a finger in the wind, one eye open and all that jazz. This has given me some objectivity. Also, been a bit more reflective. While not personally a Hillary fan, I was a Clinton/Gore fan way back when they were in office. They were good at the helm, their team was very good. I enjoyed reading about Clinton's work ethic, his voracious reading and his brains and Gore's righteous and early concerns for the environment had me swearing him in before they were elected. I also have been thinking of how much the Europeans love Hillary. They will work with her and respect her.
Even objectively speaking, it must be acknowledged that Kos has clout. Kos' wild statements and obvious favouritism is a problem for the one(s) he chooses to NOT favour. It is a problem for dems and indies who want what is left of the primaries to be fair, if possible. God knows the GE won't be. I fault his pronouncement this spring that 'Clark is out!' as having a huge influence on Clark not realizing his pre-conditions. Wes Jr's flabbergasted postings that day suggested he was disturbed. As a loyal Kossack from way back, I am sure he felt back-stabbed. Kossacks are sheeple in large #'s when Kos gives his opinion.
Still, a better counter-strategy than piling into a comment fray must be found, or else ignoring kos, as Shortie suggests, becomes the only other option. It is a problem, solved or unsolved.
The Real News. Become a supporting member today. No ads, gov't or corporate funding.
...are completely unrepresentative of the country at large and even of the Democratic mainstream. I quit going there some time ago.
They love to rant and rave, but do they ever DO anything productive and effective to enact or elect their agenda? I don't think so. They don't have time, since they spend their time at their computers wading through threads hundreds of posts long.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Don't settle for less.
Make America All It Can Be!
the blogosphere collectively, that is- and we are a part of it too. Fundraising especially.They were instrumental in getting say, James Webb in.
But what Markos forgets- and maybe I'm wrong- wasn't Wes also key in Webb's run?
The yearlykos conventions have been great - but far too expensive. They need to keep in mind that immutable law- "you become what you hate."
I don't think it is a good idea to let dkos mob mentality go unchallenged.
If teh Facebook is allowed to elect the pres... bluemoon shudders.
Does this have some hidden history attached to it, is this a Dean grassroots fight underneath? markos had no reason to grind his heel into Clinton- look at the negativity of the stories over there. Why kick when down?
I really think they have deluded themselves as to what a GE candidate needs to be. And Rs are laughing their butts off- if the intra-party skirmish can get rid of the candidate with broadest GE support, all the better.
honestly I wonder if Dems aren't suicidal sometimes.
I already told Mark- no Netroots Nation this year, I really am that mad. We both went twice. Forget it.
...especially in the early days. Clark supporters from 2003, most notably Lowell Feld, started DraftJimWebb.com and the first major out of state leader who endorsed Webb, during the primary when he still trailed the "party regular" candidate, was Wes Clark. Without Northern VA Clarkies, Jim Webb would still be writing novels. We were his first circle of supporters and everobne, be they for whomever for President, should be darn proud of it.
Kos has jumped the shark. This latest diary of his about Wes is just ridiculous. What to do about it? I honestly don't know. We'll have to think on it.
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
I will agree, it sounds good, so don't bother to explain. Some things I don't get, no matter what.:)
I think thinking on it is a good idea. Really good.
Didn't you respond to the 'Clark is out' with a diary you eventually had to delete? I was thinking an avalanche of diaries countering his statements and his favouritism would be more effective than comment threads. Maybe not tho'.
Thinking on it might be what is best for now. Sometimes doing nothing is the best action to take. However, Bluemoon's statement above that this shouldn't go unchallenged is valid.
The Real News. Become a supporting member today. No ads, gov't or corporate funding.
From the FAQ:
Q. What is jumping the shark?
A. It's a moment. A defining moment when you know that your favorite television program has reached its peak. That instant that you know from now on...it's all downhill. Some call it the climax. We call it "Jumping the Shark." From that moment on, the program will simply never be the same.
The term "jump the shark" was coined by site founder Jon Hein's college roommate of 4 years, Sean J. Connolly, in Ann Arbor, Michigan back in 1985. This web site, book, film, and all other material surrounding shark jumping, are hereby dedicated to "the Colonel."The aforementioned expression refers to the telltale sign of the demise of Happy Days, our favorite example, when Fonzie actually "jumped the shark." The rest is history.
Jumping the shark applies not only to TV, but also music, film, even everyday life. "Did you see her boyfriend? She definitely jumped the shark." You get the idea.
And, yeah, your memory is correct about my "Clark is Out!" rebuttal diary.
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
Love to dtay and talk more but I have a persistent case of 'cat sitting on keyboard'. There is onl one cure and that is walk away from the computer.
The Real News. Become a supporting member today. No ads, gov't or corporate funding.
"If you 'jump the shark,' you're going to have a helluva time when you get off. So, enjoy the ride while you can.
We need to replace them.
I love the little smile and twinkle in his eye at the beginning. It's about the best he's ever done.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Don't settle for less.
Make America All It Can Be!
He does...look and sound great.
I will never stop saying/believing it should have been Wes.
(wet blanket)
"The citizen who sees his society's democratic clothes being worn out and does not cry out is not a patriot but a traitor." -- Mark Twain
"Clark Considers Clinton as Running Mate"
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/12/09/elec04.prez.clark.clinton.ap/index.html
Ugh.
Since Clark says that Hillary "has what it takes to avert war with Iran", do you think this ad was made before the news about the NIE and Iran became public yesterday?
...he never thought the K/L vote was as important as others did. "A distraction", he might have called it......or that might have been Amb. Wilson. He'd have made the ad either way.
"The Right always knows who its enemies are" Lance Mannion
My point was the text about averting a war with Iran and that after the NIE become public yesterday, people are looking at this whole situation differently. It seems to me that that text was meant to buy into this notion that Iran was going nuclear.
I didn't even mention K/L, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up, but I would remind you that before Clinton asked Clark and others to go out and "explain" what K/L meant and didn't mean and authorized and didn't authorize to those of us who she thought just didn't understand and needed to have it explained, that his first reaction to K/L was to say that it made him very uneasy and that he hadn't talked to Clinton about it before the vote, only after.
I also think the timing of this message from the Clinton campaign is rather off, since her talk about "attacks" as politics, not leadership, comes at the very time that Clinton is "attacking", i.e. playing politics rather than showing leadership according to this ad, and has said that this is the "fun" part of the campaign.
...the administration has known about this report for months and it hasn't stopped them from threatening Iran. In fact the BBC reports that Chenney is still lobbying for it.
See m_s's reply above.
"The Right always knows who its enemies are" Lance Mannion
Hillary can "attack" all she wants. It's Wes Clark saying in this ad that Hillary's opponents are attacking her and that's politics, not leadership. So, just as you say, they can all play "attack" politics, but then Hillary and her staff and supporters have to also include her in the "that's politics" category.
I think to properly understand the context here, one would have to be familiar with the true admiration Wes has & has often eloquently expressed for professional politicians. By that I mean those who give up certain things in their lives in order to go out & hit the campaign trail to vie for an office, to work through the channels provided by our political system to resolve big policy questions. Wes is a guy who works through channels, but in a sometimes unorthodox manner.
He isn't some kind of rube or hayseed who just randomly washed up & found himself reading a cue card in front of a camera for a major Democratic contender for President.
Wes is quite political, this is a PAC. When he says that's politics, he is referring to the freakshow our political arena has become, he's talking about not only the politics of personal destruction but also the gang mentality we saw demonstrated at the Philadelphia debate.
When he says opponents, perhaps we would do well to remember it is doubtful he excludes the actual rightwing monied aristocracy from that category & doesn't merely mean the other primary opponents, because hello if the weakest rookie Dem candidates are able to coast to victory on the thermals created by the Big Wind Media & best Hillary in the early primary states, we simply will not be looking at a Democratic White House in 08. I hope Iowa & NH are smarter than that.
Had he stood there & said (which is true, by the way) that so & so has no experience, don't send a rookie, etc. he would be playing the game of politics. Instead, he introduced himself, asserted his stature & put his national security creds on the table, and made a recommendation based on all his years of wisdom & experience.
People who haven't seen leadership demonstrated in the way that this ad demonstrates it - dismissing the stupid elements of the media brawl- and simply citing his credentials then hers- might not recognize it when they see it, as it is so rare to see it.
I think the ad is spare, to the point, and dead serious.
You say he's referring to the "freakshow" our political arena has become, the politics of personal destruction, and the gang mentality we saw demonstrated at the Philadelphia debate. And you know that's what he's referring to because?
And when he says opponents, you say that he doesn't merely mean the other primary opponents. And you know what he means and doesn't mean by opponents because? This ad was put up in Iowa in advance of the Democratic caucus, not in advance of the general election, so I guess I think when he says opponents, he's talking about Clinton's real Democratic opponents, not some generic Republican opponent to come.
But the question I'd really like you to answer is this. When you say, "I think to properly understand the context here, one would have to be familiar with the true admiration Wes has & has often eloquently expressed for professional politicians", are you suggesting that I don't understand the context here? And, then, are you saying that Hillary Clinton is a professional politician and that Clark admires that about her? And do you think Hillary Clinton would ever describe herself as a professional politican? And who do you apply your definition of professional politician (By that I mean those who give up certain things in their lives in order to go out & hit the campaign trail to vie for an office, to work through the channels provided by our political system to resolve big policy questions) to? Hillary Clinton, perhaps? But what about Obama? Do you think he's someone who's given up certain things in his life in order to go out and hit the campaign trail to vie for an office, to work through the channels provided by our political system to revolve big policy questions? And if not, why not?
The General strikes me as a pretty visionary guy who has a lot of native ability & has spent his life training & testing his ability to strategize, to see several steps ahead. He also often attempts to see problems from the point of view of his opponent, in the specific case I'm thinking of, Milosevic.
I do believe the GE is the ultimate goal for any of these candidates, and as for the intranecine "warfare", this particuarl intraparty contest is obviously of great interest to the opponents, again, who are not so much the other democrats as they are the other party, worse, neocons & their various multinational tentacles.
What could it possibly matter if I think Hillary Clinton is or isn't a professional politician? She obviously is, she is obviously an office holder.
Barack Obama is a fine fella. I, however, oddly enough, am here blogging in support of Wes, his FP vision, his efforts, and by extension of his endorsement & by my choice, for Hillary.
As for the Barack Obama questions, I find him to be of little to no interest to me personally & I barely find him of interest politically. If I wanted to continously devote myself to discussing all of his wonderful qualities by golly, why, you'd probably find me over at his place. Or any number of other places.
I ask questions, you don't answer, or you don't have an answer. You just read minds, evidently, in that you can be so certain that you know exactly what Wes Clark means by "that's politics" and "opponents".
I asked you about Hillary Clinton being a professional politician because you commented on Wes Clark's admiration of professional politicians, and was just wondering if only Clinton among the Democratic candidates met your definition of professional politician.
So, I'll ask another question, even though you probably won't answer it, and will probably find it offensive. In 2004, all of the Democratic candiates "attacked" their opponents, including Wes Clark. Was that "just politics", too, and not leadership?
For example, on Thursday, February 5, 2004, a Democratic candidate said, "My opponents on the inside have said that the American people shouldn't hold them responsible for everything that happens because we don't understand how things work in Washington."
"They're right. I don't understand how Washington politicians can say one thing and then do another."
"Take education. I don't understand how John Kerry and John Edwards can criticize the No Child Left Behind Act. They voted for it. I don't understand how John Kerry and John Edwards can criticize the state of our economy and claim to be champions of America's working families, when they voted for the president's tax cuts for the very rich."
"I don't understand how John Kerry and John Edwards can claim to defend civil liberties and criticize the Patriot Act. They voted for it. I don't understand how John Kerry and John Edwards can criticize the war in Iraq, when they voted to give George W. Bush a blank check to go to war."
The candidate went on to say, "We need a change from the same old Washington insiders who got us into this mess."
So, was that just pointing out differences among candidates or making comparisons among candidates, which I take it you think is acceptable in a campaign, or was it an "attack" on opponents, which would be "just politics"?
There is so much hair splitting going on over the first three sentences of this ad, I don't know whether to laugh or just slam myself repeatedly in the head with a large ball peen hammer. Oh, wait. I keep going on line, which has become rather like that.
Sorry Latinjim, this isn't an answer either. It's all getting soooo tiresome. I keep reading the same things put different ways - the semantics of this are so, um, political.
;-)
Hope someone else can actually offer an answer, or at least rehash what they already said countless times a different way to fit the current tack.
I'm just lost anymore.
All I've got is this.
You keep fightin' the good fight, Wes!
Dorma - Out!
other than work. I'll be back around midnight your time.
Dorma - Out! was like, you know, that host guy who always says, "Seacrest - Out!" I was just being, um, idiotic. '-)
All the pirates are beating the crap out of each other and when asked about it, Capt Jack say, "that's politics."
of this exchange reminds me of this cartoon.
I've done what I can do here. I'll be over there, >>> at the bar, pouring a Bailey's.
tears of laughter streaming from her eyes. And yes...the over-turned chair she fell out of missed the small furry aminals nearby.)
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
My god, get a grip, I can't take it anymore, wtf, it means you should go and buy a gift for your wife, your husband, your brother, your sister, send a gift to a solider, a neighbor, a church, oooooh, it is a secret code, whatever, duh, putting down Mrs. Clinton is "politics", is that too hard to fecking understand, geesh,....get over it already, your arguments are old and tiresome.
Bluemoon. Keep it up, lol!
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
She never said "Wheeee! Attacking and being nasty is fun! Whooha!"
I use "now for the fun part" all the darn time in describing a task that is about to get more difficult. She meant now comes the nitty gritty, now it gets tough. It's a very common figure of speech.
"As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular." - Oscar Wilde
that a lil ole NIE report refuting their claims is not enough to deter a war driven Cheney for long. Creative loopholes and foxholes are being devised in undisclosed locations as we type...
If Bush is going to go to war with Iran no matter what, it doesn't matter who the Democratic candidate is because it will be too late for whoever that is to "avert war with Iran", which is the point of this ad - elect Hillary Clinton and war with Iran will be averted.
politcs is politics but what this country needs is leadership and HRC is the one that has it.
"The Right always knows who its enemies are" Lance Mannion
You're leaping.
Speculating that Cheney et al will likely be making plans to attack Iran regardless of the NIE results, is not equivalent to saying:
"--it doesn't matter who the Democratic candidate is because it will be too late to avert war with Iran".
We still have a few checks and balances in place. We have an intel organization that seems to be growing weary of playing stooge for bushco and a military that is increasingly outspoken in their departures from administration views.
We have a ... sort of... democratic Congress -- ok, that check could use some bolstering. And we have 70% of the public who believe bush has taken us in the wrong direction and want out of the oil wars. For that matter we even have a small splinter of press kinda sorta that might help out. Keith Olbermann, Thom Hartmann, Sy Hersch, Greg Palast, etc etc come to mind.
And leap #2- The point of the ad is to elect Hillary to avert war with Iran??? Wes says she has the right leadership qualities to end the war in Iraq, avert the war in Iran, and best represent America to the world at large, etc. Averting Iran war was not THE point of the ad. It was one of several points.
Geez, it's unbelievable how much Clark supporters have got to be jumping around defending this man from his own troops these days.
saying 'if we hadn't won 2006 then Iran war would have happened already and been certainty';
nobody can stop the CIC if he takes the nation to war; but Dem majority ( sort of ) has put on the brakes
What a gem Hillary has on her team!