I missed you, too. I just had to step back for awhile, but y'all were never far from my thoughts.....especially when I saw this piece.

beautiful? HA!

Thanks for stoppin' by, Moon Goddess. I hope to be able to do the same, more often.

Missya like crazy!!! Gonna make an effort to show up more often. Now that things are heatin' up, I'm gonna need someplace to let off steam. Far be it from me to do it at someone else's blog.

I been gone for a bit but I haven't lost my voice.  And I've missed yours, ms.  Glad to see you're still mixin' it up around here.  :)

Yep, I'm a mixer alright! Somebody's gotta do it... heh

And a WooHoo to you, too, sister!

Great catch.

Tega.....Thanks for stopping by! A girl can only stay silent for so long.....especially when it comes to that Son of a Millworker.

Thanks for continuing with the email Media Alerts. They've enabled me to catch a Wes Clark appearance more times then I can count. Even though the General sorely disappointed me when he decided not to run, I'm still extremely proud to call myself a Clarkie. I can't help but smile whenever I see one of his appearances. There's just no quittin' him. :)

We aim to please. Or, as GE used to say, "At GE service is our most important product."

That said, I didn't know about the four times he was on MSNBC in the last 24 hours, nor the radio interview today. I was out a lot today.

Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!

maybe Wes will wait for him outside a darkened auditorium and beat the living s___ out of him anyway.....just for old times sake?

How's the new baby doing?    

http://www.karmafur.com/penny.asp

We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.

.

Thanks for dropping by.
Yep.....this is just one more example of the way JRE uses people. He's been dragging those children around like props in a vaudville act, for years. It seems like they've grown up on a campaign bus. I wonder if they even have any friends their own age. Sad.

wow perspective - - all the political families travel to some degree with their children... and remember they lost their son Wade they just might have an attachment to being with their children that

helps the family ..... kids and all... for that matter what is the difference between campaign life on the road and home schooling except that the view latitude and longitude change frequently;

synthetic environment Americans deserve what the rest of civilized world has affordable guaranteed single-payer healthcare.

His own supporters watched the comment he made and were really pissed. If the people who were backing him saw it and decided to switch from him, why do you think anybody here would see it differently?

There is nothing fair going on here. You'll be banished if you keep this sort of thing up.

I hope the people here have deep pockets because they'll be asked to double dip for the WesPAC supporters they have driven off.

One guy who threatened the life of the so called president three yrs ago was restricted, but he managed to revisit afterwards without a problem. And Paul crossed a line so lost only blog posting rights, but is still free to post commentary as he sees fit, and has.

That's it for the last 5 years. I can't think of another dem blog that can say that. Look at Kos if you want to see banishing policies... I can't imagine jordans being banished. For what? He always presents his case reasonably, respectfully and without gratuitous venom. He's a good model of advocates for other candidates blogging on a site sponsored by a surrogate by an opposing candidate.

WesPAC no doubt recognized the shifting of the bar that would occur when Wes endorsed a singular presidential candidate. They would lose Edwards and Obama and other supporters most likely. That must have been factored in as a given. I have a strong hunch that despite that, they have likewise attracted new 'customers' to support Wes's candidates and causes.

But I really don't think it's fair to call Wes's blog unfair. Maybe I'm seeing it through distorted lenses, but I find this blog as even-handed and fair as they come.

So sorry that's not your experience Ruth. And I imagine it must be hard for you and conflicting. What do you suggest we can do to make it better? I'm sure everyone here is willing to listen, you're such a valued member of the community.

That Jordans should be banished for being fair? Damn, it's hard to be sarcastic sometimes using the written word only.

Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!

maybe.

"There is nothing fair going on here"

didn't strike me as comedic, and I'm usually laser beamed for comedy fodder, it's my magnet. Maybe it was one of those jokes I just didn't get though.

It's tough. I've gotten in trouble with that sort of thing before. If you can't hear the voice and the intonation, one can misinterpret at times.

____________________________________
"...I must emphasize and
explain repeatedly the moral dimensions of all
social life, and point out that morality is, in
fact, hidden in everything..."

- Vaclav Havel

I have no suggestions. Hard and conflicting? No. It has become perfectly clear.

I'm watching the the graphic on fund raising. The new customers as you put it are laying low right now I guess.

at this point for WesPAC, but suppose I could find it. You may be referring to the latest Wespac effort on its own I assume?

On a larger scale, I'm concerned about the graphic on the economic picture for the country as a whole this past week and leading into this year. Things look very grim for all but the top echelon of earners in this country. I would imagine that all fundraising will suffer for it... and all families too.

In any case, WesPAC has its changing missions that will ebb and flow with the trends and hopefully always maintain enough to keep the General in the advocacy business.

WesPAC will need your $$$$ if he's to continue to support your candidates.

I really do hope you were kidding Ruth that someone can be banished for expressing a different opinion or viewing an issue differently than the majority. Maybe I read what you wrote wrong.

Ms, thanks for noting that I try to be reasonable and respectful. It's true. But I'm not sure I know what you mean when you say that I'm an example of an advocate for another candidate blogging on a site sponsored by a surrogate of an opposing candidate. I don't really consider myself an Edwards advocate if that's what you mean. This damn primary thing is causing some deep divisions and classifications within the party that aren't necessary. I am a Wes Clark supporter first. I'm not fully on board with his decision to endorse Hillary, but does that mean that I am looked at as an outsider to this community? It shouldn't. I think this is an important question for people who blog here to answer. I think I'll ponder it some more and pen a diary. Wes Clark has been an inspiration to me and is the only reason I care about politics at all as a college student.

is closing ......... on possibilities and potentials so there are hard feelings and squabbles... you could feel it when ( first Wes ) then Joe Biden left the race too.... it is like that

the right kind of patriotic america ahhhhha...... who is of the CCN church and who is not of the church of CCN ..... I wish it wasn't so but that is what is happening seems it was a good ride while it lasted democracy ya all; I supported Joe Biden and now ta da ....

let the hating begin guess who I support now John Edwards; can I still blog with the Fighting Dems at CCN? 

in surveillance nation http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd%5B347%5D=x-347-559597 it just gets more and more regressive and

people get squashed down on each other and things gets hot under the pressure

Rocket Man - Answers

studying interesting things to fill in the time until things get ironed out

ForcesPhysicsMathematicsContentsIndexHome

synthetic environment Americans deserve what the rest of civilized world has affordable guaranteed single-payer healthcare.

the comment I made to everyone yesterday.

http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/14370#comment-269509

____________________________________
"...I must emphasize and
explain repeatedly the moral dimensions of all
social life, and point out that morality is, in
fact, hidden in everything..."

- Vaclav Havel

running out but wanted to tell you what I was trying to say- sorry for any misunderstandings. By 'advocate' I was meaning that there are people who blog here who support or advocate for another candidate other than Wes's but have managed to do so in a fashion that is presented non offensively and framed in considered reasoned argument. That has been largely educational for all of us I believe. You are an example of that. There are others and I honestly hope you don't feel any 'banishing' effect. I don't see you ever abusing this site or Wes's good will so hope you don't take my comment to indicate anything like that.

Blogging now is a different paced activity than it was only a few months ago. There's more deliberation and caution before pounding the Post key. Who might misinterpret this? Who might be offended? Is there something I can say, some better framing to forward communication rather than block it? Can this post be downright insulting to a fellow CCNer and if so-- how can I say what I want and avoid that at the same time. It's not as spontaneous as it used to be.

I only meant to thank you for obviously doing that. It's like riding a bike and playing sax at the same time to blog where you're not yourself on board with the endorsee-- but you do it well, imo. ;)

It's the season of the witch. It's the season of the easy swipe and caustic snipe. That makes it each of our responsibilities to try to be on guard ourselves before hitting Post. Not an easy thing to do when we're all heated up and passionate. But I still maintain as a group we're pretty good in that department. It's a self regulated political blog... Imagine! And it seems to work.

There has been lots of morale busting here over many years but there is an underlying buoyancy that resurfaces despite even onslaughts of malcontent and barrages of anger. There's some kind of glue and I attribute it about 99.9% to Wes Clark, the people he attracts, the model he puts forth.

Sorry for long response. I really want you to understand what I was (trying) to say! You are no outsider. I don't think the concept of an 'outsider' much holds for anyone if they really support Wes Clark, regardless of the pres candidate. Now I'm really late to get back to work! :)

The label of outsider should not apply to anyone who supports Wes Clark. I get what you were trying to say now, thanks ;)

Removing his blog posting privileges was completely wrong. I would hope that's been reversed by now.

I don't actually think that the guy who accidentally sort of posted a threat was restricted. I don't know for sure, but I think that the post in question was removed.

One guy was banned permanently because he continually disrupted everything with incessant redundant Wes bashing. We begged Catherine and Josh to have him banned and after a year, they finally relented and cut the guy off. But I don't think they even blocked his IP address. I think they just cancelled his account.

Catherine has promised me on many occassions that they don't screw around with free speech here. But they do prefer that we don't make vile personal attacks on anyone here--not even GWB.

Not that I always manage to do it, but I do think it's probably a good idea to not post anything you wouldn't say right to Wes. I cannot imagine Wes's reaction if I were to make a vile personal attack on anyone in his presence. OK, I can picture his reaction. He would have frowned and said something like, "Now, Maria...that's not really the way to change people's minds, is it?"

We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.

If we're talking about Paul C. He went waaaaaaaay over the line, continued to trash talk Wes and this site on DU and has never apologized for his disrespect. He's been decent lately, though. Maybe he's learned how to behave.

We need to replace their thugs with our thugs.

until after the implicit (and in my case EXPLICIT because I talked it over with CG several times) promise to not censor here was broken.

It is weak to stop people from criticizing you by the forceful means of limiting their access to the site. All censoring Paul did was cause me to doubt whether people here could adequately defend Hillary Clinton on the merits. If what someone is saying is bullshit, one should be able to beat them down with FACTS. If you have to resort to force, then you've demonstrated to the whole world that you lost the argument. It's like when a parent resorts to "because I said so."

Paul's blogs were just that, blogs. If you didn't want to read them, you didn't have to click on them.

There is NO EXCUSE for having censored him. And, yes, I have said this directly to Wes.

We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.

anyone can say anything they want on this site. However, that's not it's intended purpose. How do you suggest that disrupters, mental cases, and that ilk be treated? I would suggest they just be ignored, but some people don't get the message.

We need to replace their thugs with our thugs.

yourself the reality is CCN is getting smaller... unless Wes becomes an appointed official or V.P. I don't see it growing as it is and I will miss it

if it closes because of inactivity..... I enjoy the great minds and heart here hope it continues being interesting and informative constructive and useful;

synthetic environment Americans deserve what the rest of civilized world has affordable guaranteed single-payer healthcare.

if it's getting smaller or not, but I suspect that it will cease to exist after the 08 elections. Unless Wes is a candidate.

We need to replace their thugs with our thugs.

synthetic environment Americans deserve what the rest of civilized world has affordable guaranteed single-payer healthcare.

OMG... anyone can say anything they want.. OMG .. not that!!! Blapshemy! The stated purpose of CCN is Democracy as our Founding Fathers Intended.

As I said, Paul was posting blogs and you didn't have to click on them, so he wasn't disrupting you. If it comes to a point where a person is repeatedly disrupting every thread with the same old crap that's been rebuted 1000 times, then, yes, you have to do something. But Paul was not doing that.

Force should be used as a last, last, last resort. Once you've used it, you've failed. If it became necessary to use a hammer against Paul, then this entire community failed. We should all feel sad that we, as a community, failed. (and, yes, I do feel like crap everytime I have to admit that I was part of the group that got V*** banned; we failed when we didn't solve that some other way and CG and Josh made that perfectly clear to us). Leadership is the art of getting the other guy to want to do what you want him to do.

We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.

a true democrat. How do we know if a post is disruptive or "blasphemous" if we don't read it? At some point the FACT that this is actually a private web site, belonging to General Wesley K. Clark has to be acknowledged. When you sign up, you agree to follow certain rules; if you don't, then your hat should be handed to you on the way out the door. I frankly think that Kat has been waaaaay too lenient.

We need to replace their thugs with our thugs.

It's paid for by WesPAC. The stated goal of WesPAC is to get Democrats elected and push national security as a platform in the Party. The stated goal of CCN within that is "Democracy as our founding fathers intended." The intended goal does not say anywhere that the point of the site is to ensure that nothing "blasphemous" gets said about Wesley K. Clark or the people he's endorsed.

As far as "disruptive" goes, if you don't have to click on it, then it's not disruptive by definition. If you don't like the title, don't click on it. Hell, if it's posted by Paul, don't click on it cause I can guarantee you won't like it.

You're free to think that people shouldn't be allowed to say "blasphemous" things here, but that's not the standard that was set when we signed up, it's not the standard that was repeatedly stated to me when I asked about it, it's not the standard that Wes preaches, and it sure as hell isn't Democracy As Our Founding Fathers Intended.

The fact is this community failed when we cut Paul's priveleges and we should all feel bad about that. We failed to find a better way to deal with our problems.

We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.

(You know better than I do that if it weren't for Wes Clark, there would be no WesPac.)

In order to make each blogger feel recognized, we try to make an extra effort to reply to new names seen online, who might not yet be acclimated to the site.

There are no moderators here, and that's worked extremely well for 3 years. So apply your own duct tape when you're about to say something you don't think you'd want your mother to read or Karl Rove to quote.

In seeking to advance productive dialogue on the issues, differing viewpoints and debate are welcome when conducted respectfully.

And finally; we all get worked up sometimes, but please try to avoid gratuitous slurs and insults of anyone since this only detracts from in-depth discussions. WesPAC reserves the right to remove any posts that are offensive.

We need to replace their thugs with our thugs.

When we signed up, it said, "Be respectful and have fun." And when the members of WesPAC wrote that page, it did not include that sentence.

By the way, I find many of your posts offensive. You're often mean and judgemental. You incite anger in others. But I have no intention of asking to have you censored.

We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.

getting personal. Frankly, the same could be said of you.
However, it's time to quite this charade before we say something that could get us banned.

We need to replace their thugs with our thugs.

Because you needed to hear that, not because I actually find you offensive. You needed to hear that offensive is in the eye of the beholder. That somebody might find you offensive and want to censor you. That's what makes democracy work--majority rule and minority rights.

We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.

Respectful...that's the key word.

He that plants trees loves others besides himself. ~English Proverb

Well, as I've said before in blogs before when this subject comes up, at "my" Yahoo! groups (they're not really mine...they belong to the members and all I do is administer them), I do try to prevent one disrupter or nasty person from driving others away. I allow about anything, but if vile language, personal attacks, excessive irrelevance, and/or dominating the discussion by only one or two people start to cause people to leave, I try to intervene.

Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!

I didn't mean to get your back up with this blog post, Ruth. And I'm sorry if you don't care for the content, but my disdain for JRE knows no bounds.

It is good to "see" you, however. :)

that she was not tough enough to be Commander in Chief because she showed a smidgen of emotion.

That is an age-old sexist canard, as commonly used against women as the day is long.

"As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular." - Oscar Wilde

I can see where you are coming with that.

I see it differently though. Based on how I'm interpreting the quote and based on the what he said on MSNBC, I think he was offering kind of a cold sympathy to Hillary.

Think about it this way -- he wasn't saying "this is a tough process" to make the point that Hillary is not tough enough. He was saying "this is a tough process" to say that in essence he's not surprised by it because it is so hard. He said that Hilllary deserves a lot respect for putting herself out there like she has.

So I dunno, maybe I'm wrong, but that's the impression I got. I certainly didn't draw any of the conclusions that the article referenced in the diary did.

that you interpreted JRE's words differently, Jordans. And I appreciate you visiting my blog and posting your view point. Taking a opposing position on something is what sparks discussion.

I do not know how long you've been following presidential politics. And I'm certainly not an expert, but.....I have had my laser beam on JRE for years. There isn't enough time or space on this blog for me to post my list of grievances against this guy.

Suffice it to say, the man is a slippery, slimey, sweet-talkin' snake-in-the-grass. And hey.....most politicians are.....to some degree. But he wears the crown, imho.

So it does my heart good when I see that someone else has seen through his syrupy style of character assisination and called him on it.

I have observed him since 2004 and his flaws and foibles but I don't have a scorecard; list a few please.... I really must have poor peripheral vision what am I missing?

synthetic environment Americans deserve what the rest of civilized world has affordable guaranteed single-payer healthcare.

Hugh Shelton.

He that plants trees loves others besides himself. ~English Proverb

and he gave CA ARNUULD and I'd like to see someone taser him into a coma .... he is dumb and he dumbs down america every night ....I never watch him

I had enough of junior high and grade school behavior when I a kid...........

celebrity makes people millionaires and I wonder do you think you should be rewarded for your intelligence and talent

or should he be rewarded for his simpering humor- - -compare your paychecks with Leno and tell me the comparative advantage to

bevis and butthead late night teevee have so much influence on politics rather than you and me and the rest of us who have to live with the

the economic policies from governors, senators and presidents who audition for him to get his approval;

stupid... Leno level stupid - - when ABC STUFFALUFAGUS put on Sunday funnies on his Sunday show I puked up a hair ball the size of Cleveland;

..........

synthetic environment Americans deserve what the rest of civilized world has affordable guaranteed single-payer healthcare.

they make chocolate and vanilla, e-b.  :)

not one but TWO disapproving bloggers in one! are you going to snob my raw nerves

@(*@#(#*7 leno and his endorsement..... millionaires of the media ... which includes all the news anchors... they use to earn

a salary but now they are paid millionaires to spin and promote the coroporate message massaging it nite after nite after LATE NIGHT

you must not agree that the MEDIA IS THE PROBLEM the real problem we have become the permanent underdogs... that would be the citizens of America

synthetic environment Americans deserve what the rest of civilized world has affordable guaranteed single-payer healthcare.

I downrated this because of the taser comment.

synthetic environment Americans deserve what the rest of civilized world has affordable guaranteed single-payer healthcare.

wouldn't be the first time.

http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&svnum=10&hl=en&q=women+tasered+&btnG=Search+Images

here are pics of women being tasers by the police

but the Band Plays On for the Nelsons in the virtual democracy land ....... the side you are siding with

can't tell friend from foe...... in the alignment of the odds against your best interests the media is not your friend;

and my free speech is distasteful to you ... sorry but no retraction because of your objections

synthetic environment Americans deserve what the rest of civilized world has affordable guaranteed single-payer healthcare.

I've enjoyed most of your posts over the years.

but the worst skunky nutjob troll who was here to dive bomb and cause chaos....

your opinion of me has been registered in public... you have self agrandized your distaste ... I have found some of your posts DISTASTEFUL

have you seen any school marm swapping at you from me on the threads ... nope

live blogging is a form of power and even little old me understands where the wide world of readers can get information that is helpful

to understand the collective American culture......I have only been around since Sept 2005 you have been around since 2003 2004 that makes you

I must seem like an interloper to you ... I can understand that.... but the blog gets smaller... wouldn't you like to see it grow

with diversity and money power to fuel Wes' mission ( and ours ) instead of having to be the core going back to the bank again and again;

sucessfull fund raising is essential for political power as it exists now.... and Wes needs to grow his base for donations.... interlopers, late comers and

people who don't share your views or TASTE and style are not flocking to CCN; the core is getting consolidated but there is not alot of new growth....

so the window for Wes potentail phenomena in politics is closing.... and I wish it would grow not collapse and implode.....

synthetic environment Americans deserve what the rest of civilized world has affordable guaranteed single-payer healthcare.

gave a great Green or Go Tv interview and she said of JE that he can not quit because this race is not about him it is about the people

he wants who really have a stake in the election results get and keep their place at the election table; she said he will fight for them

and his political ambitions are for those Americans and he counts himself and his family among them;

JE says of himself he is in this race to the convention to keep the voices of American who have not been heard in the corrupt halls of DC government business

have their say.... I am paraphrasing; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvNk6Rbj9kw

he is not some dark figure with sneaky motives..... genuine people ( who know much more than they can say to the public - he was on Senate Intelligence Committee he was the lawyer who deposed Monica and Vernon Jordon .... he has the respect and trust of his peers on both sides) but the public still does not understand him;

I hope they will come to understand him and his mission and that he succeeds... I have forgiven him for the neocon Huge Shelton ( and that is big forgive coming from me ) if he doesn't repeat the mistake and I don't think he has so far;

this is JE's response to Kerry's endorsement of Obama; Despite their political alliance, the two men were not close personally and differed behind the scenes on campaign strategy in a race that President Bush won.

Edwards responded to word of the endorsement with a diplomatic statement: "Our country and our party are stronger because of John's service, and I respect his decision. When we were running against each other and on the same ticket, John and I agreed on many issues."

synthetic environment Americans deserve what the rest of civilized world has affordable guaranteed single-payer healthcare.

in the nature of research.

Did we ever come up with 'reason' Kerry 'hired' JE? Or did we accept it as 'Oh, Totally warned us!??'

Love you all. Am HATING this stuff now.

For her and the family. I dunno, for me, I see their decision as very honorable. In the face of such struggle and pain, what are you going to do with yourself? Are you going to sink into yourself or never stop fighting? I commend them but I can't imagine what it must be like.

I just disagree, especially with respect to the kids. I know she approved his staying in - more power to her and I hope she lives a long, long time.

Seeing his voting record while a Senator (NOT liberal, NOT for the little guy), seeing what he didn't stand up for and act on when he could have, seeing the many changes, and actions that don't match up to words, seeing him let Wes be smeared with lies by someone in his campaign, and remaining silent.

I could go on (but won't -- leaving for home now) and provide links if anyone doesn't believe it. Probably a lot of us could.

Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right.

you are talking about the few times he bothered to vote, right???  He did miss casting 70% of his votes as a freshman senator.  He was too busy running for president.