Florida and Michigan update.
Submitted by mad4clark on March 8, 2008 - 2:13pm.
Democratic politics
Latest on the the on going saga of FL and MI
First we have....
Obama Rejects "Firehouse Primary" In Michigan
The Democratic state party chair in Michigan says the Barack Obama campaign has rejected the idea of a "firehouse primary." The proposal would have included:
Polls would be open from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m., and any eligible voter who hadn't voted in the state's Jan. 15 Republican primary could participate. The voter must be a citizen who turns 18 by the November election and declares himself or herself a Democrat for the day.
Then Donna Brazile weighs in..
With two-thirds of the primary contests already completed, the DNC cannot allow the Florida and Michigan delegates to decide the nomination. It would be wrong. And it would be dangerous.. . . I suggest that these two states avoid any "do-over" contests. The voters have spoken. While Obama may not like the results in Michigan, where his name didn't appear on the ballot, I have a hard time ignoring the Florida results, where his name did. More important, a do-over would send a terrible message to states already thinking about moving their primary or caucus forward in 2012 or, heaven forbid, 2011. After all, the reason the party came down hard last year was to avoid a primary being held before the winter holidays.
As BTD says......
"Let's forget for a moment that Brazile's argument makes no sense."......."A Republican intent on hurting the Democratic Party could not do more damage to it than Brazile has done this year. My gawd she is awful."
And now, the Ragin' Cajun ups the ante...
CARVILLE: We’ll raise it (ph). We’ll raise — we’ll put up $15 million. I’ll guarantee $15 million and have the Obama people put up $15 million. And let’s go to the polls come on June 7th. I’ve got fundraisers that are lined up ready to go. I think the Democratic party is going to look absolutely absurd if they don’t have primaries and let these people in Florida and Michigan vote. . . .
WILHELM: Well, this — you know, ultimately, I don’t think this is up to the campaigns. I think this is …
CARVILLE: Sure it is.
WILHELM: …up to Chairman Dean — the campaigns are part of the discussion, but it’s up to the people of Michigan, the state party of Michigan, the National Party, the state party of Florida, and I’m sure we can all …let’s go, we — all we want to do is know what the rules are, play by the rules.
CARVILLE: No, the rules are these campaigns we can put on a primary. I just love Florida. Every person that I talk to in Florida wants to participate in this process. It’s been racked by the subprime crisis and foreclosures. Look at Michigan. We’re going to say (ph) we got rules here and we’re going to have some kind of cockamamie (ph) thing, or we can go and have a primary and let these people weigh in. This is the United States of America. Let people vote.
WILHELM: We have nothing to fear from a primary if that comes to it. . . .
CARVILLE: I’ll pledge $15 million.
WILHELM: I am praying and hopeful that we can figure out a way to get this to happen.
CARVILLE: It’s easy, it’s easy. Print some ballots, let’s raise some money and let’s get going and tell this guy in Florida, I don’t have any voting machines, then get some people in and count. Say here’s one ballot here, one ballot there and count them. That’s the way they used to do it. We can do that
Pass the popcorn.
Team O and his supporters are more willing to disenfranchise millions of Democratic voters than to risk blowout loses in FL and MI. It would make clear something the press fails to point out -- that Obama is where he is because of his wins in red State caucuses and his weakness in blue State primaries.
As Big Tent Democrat says of Brazile:
A Republican intent on hurting the Democratic Party could not do more damage to it than Brazile has done this year. My gawd she is awful.
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
her buddy Karl Rove has made her more effective.
"Oh, just a broken-hearted Hoover fixer sucker guy." suggested Obama supporter theme song
in the Middlesboro Daily News.
I read the whole article and I cannot follow what she's saying. She doesn't want do-overs, I get that. She thinks the credentials committee might be able to sort it out, okay.
But then she says:
The bottom line is that we need to think this through and talk with officials from those two states who are willing to come up with a workable alternative that does not ask the DNC or the nominee to act as if nothing happened.What would that "workable solution" be?
And how is this, by even the most charitable interpretation, a "bottom line?" --by Robot Porter
But she was arguing for pretending nothing
happened and then reversed herself in her closing.I am going to repeat my comment here - the Mark Schmitt plan is now the Obama goal - seat Florida with NO do over as Obama will get spanked and the publicity will be devastating.
To get that result, you have to address Michigan, the argument there is Obama was not on the ballot. You see Brazile already making that argument.
Then what to do about Michigan? A firehouse primary has been proposed and rejected by the Obama campaign - the excuse is money I guess.
But Carville swoops in - "I got the money right here!" Now what is Obama's excuse for insisting on an IA caucus instead of a primary? -- by Big Tent Democrat
Ouch. Then there's this...
Link (pageone.com)
Finally, and most interestingly, Florida State Sen. Nan Rich told the Sun-Sentinel that one idea kicking around the Capitol is to force the national parties' hands by passing legislation requiring each to recognize Florida's delegates or see their presidential candidate kept off the November ballot. Such a move would be devastating to Democrats.Article talks about Repub politics against Dems. ---by PlayInPeoria
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
..that last one's a killer......tho' doubt it would end up being legal.
What Donna seems to want (and Obama) .... is for FL and MI to just go away, because I think they both believe it's the only way he'll win.
"It's not all about words and math. It comes down to who can win."
and anyone other than the rabid Hillary haters will see what they're doing. For them, it all makes perfect sense.
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
..for the Hillary Haters it's all about hating Hillary. Voters's rights are secondary.
Obama has to win at any cost.
For the good of the party......NOT
"It's not all about words and math. It comes down to who can win."
Chairperson of the rules committee, this is Donna Brazile's mess. I'm beginning to think Howard is getting rather tired of Ms. Brazile.
For allowing me to quote you (with links back to here) in the rebuttal mass mail I sent out between yesterday and today. More than a few people who initially responded pissed off, responded again more positively after reading what all of you said - particularly regarding the rules.
I've been answering responses all day, and will probably get more - many have been positive, largely because of what you wrote.
Thanks - you all have made a diffence in defending one's right to vote and have that vote counted.
Kelly
P.S. - here's another link from Jodie http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/25/AR2007082500275_pf.html
P.P.S. - The Michigan vote I think should be redone, but Florida should stand, either completely, or at worst, at 50% of the original delegate count.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
but why should Michigan be re-done if Florida's vote is OK?
one name was on the Dem ballot - Hillary Clinton's. The others had removed their names assuming the votes would not count, or, more precisely, Michigan would not be allowed an resulting delegates at the convention. So - to let the Michigan vote stand as is would unfairly favor Senator Clinton. Those who supported Senator Obama were advised to vote as 'uncommited', I believe, however those who used the write in line provided on their ballots had their votes disqualified. So - it's very muddy in Michigan.
Florida's a little different. None took their names off the ballot and none broke any rules by campaigning there. The voters came out in record numbers, in good faith, did nothing wrong or illegal in casting their votes. Thus, they should count either fully, or at worst, at 50% as stated in the original DNC rules.
There is an argument that Florida is still unfair precisely because none of the candidates were able to campaign there. Personally, I disagree. Most voters never see the candidates in person - in more than 20 years of voting, Wes is the only presidential candidate I've met, and that was because I drove out of town to do it - yet they somehow manage to make a decision on voting just the same. They watch the news, watch the debates, read the papers, now look on the candidates' websites, and listen to their friends and family, just as they have done for decades, then they make their decisions accordingly.
Part of this argument says that Senator Obama was at a disadvantage in name recognition (CNN today), however that didn't seem to be a problem for him in Iowa or South Carolina, nor in a close contest in Nevada, weeks ahead of the Florida vote. And - having won Iowa alone boosted his name recognition immensley all across the nation.
Hope that helps a little.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
Kucinich, Gravel and Dodd were on, although Dodd had dropped out by then. Richardson, Edwards and Obama took their names off.
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
eom
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
Jen is right...I am a Michigan voter, and Hillary, Dodd, Kuchinich, Gravel, and UNCOMMITTED were on the ballot. Also, I and many others got a phone call from So. Carolina, to encourage us to VOTE UNCOMMITTED. We were asked to sign a petition, stating, the robo calls. Now I believe it was the BO campaign, calling MI, as they were getting ready for the SC voting there. They realized that they were not going to get many votes, as they had taken their name off the ballot.
the candidates who removed their names - knowlingly missed the deadline to be write-ins, too.
Obama had a pretty well run stealth campaign via John Conyers and his wife, who is on the Detroit City Council.
Ann Arbor & East Lansing participated heavily. (Students)Conyers & Co. ran a fair amount of radio ads.
Edwards had Bonior calling in his favors for labor, particularly the US Steelworkers Union - doing a fairly aggresive GOTV.
However it works out - us Michiganders - who last I heard are part of the US - deserve to be heard.
"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants."
Gen. Omar Bradley
Don't know the specifics. Don't have a link. I just remember seeing that somewhere.
Nick Kelly
Wes Clark could still secure America as a national security candidate.
...it was part of a national buy.....and the DNC member that approved it has now endorsed him.
Luverly!
"It's not all about words and math. It comes down to who can win."
If someone from the DNC approved an exception, then I presume O's campaign asked them to do so.
That's really new politics, eh?.... "I promise not to campaign in Florida." "Now, may I please run some TV ads in Florida? TV ads aren't really campaigning. Especially if they're on national TV." "Pretty please?" "It's OK for you to approve this exception for me, because I'm your favorite. Aren't I?" "And it'll be only just this once, I promise."
Nick Kelly
Wes Clark could still secure America as a national security candidate.
I've been away for a bit, but want to chime in here, I know probably all these points have been made by others here ( big thanks to Maddy et al), but in the back and forth of potential "solutions" to the Michigan and Florida "problems," I think perhaps a few points bear repeating.
The elections in both Michigan and Florida were free and fair elections held according to the laws in their respective states. In a lot of the talk about "rules," this point is usually not stated. That Obama voluntarily removed his name from the Michigan ballot was, I believe, a tactical mistake on his part. This should not taint the result as far as the state of Michigan is concerned. I think there has been plenty of insightful speculation on his motivation for removing his name from the ballot.
Respecting voters' rights should trump other concerns. Michigan and Florida are right to challenge the DNC.
Holding other contests in these states also puts an additional financial burden on us, the voters who have been financing the campaigns.
I think that this is a fight we probably need; it could serve as a cleansing kind of thing,
Perhaps the DNC should just admit that it erred in selectively imposing these onerous sanctions, sanctions way out of proportion to the "offense." There are other ways to deal with this spat, aside from the illogical punishing of the voters.
Anyway, two more cents here, and sorry if I've repeated anything unnecessarily.
thanks!
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
Count FL in it entirety. They deserve it and have already gone through hell - twice. Give HRC her MI delegates as voted, but turn the "uncommitted" votes into extra Superdelegates free to vote their choice. OR, what the H, just count them all and get it over with. OR, delete the other 3 states that also broke the rules. Or fire DB and apologize for the mess.
"Oh, just a broken-hearted Hoover fixer sucker guy." suggested Obama supporter theme song
but go a little further - make all of Michigan's pledged delegates free agents to vote as they choose, then no one can cry foul that HRC is getting preferential treatment. If puch comes to shove in Florida - do the same there - but all delegates then MUST be seated.
What do you all think??
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
There still would have to be some way to elect the delegates, usually through county, congressional district, and/or state conventions (in Texas, it's state Senate districts and the state). So on what basis would those delegates be elected? Here, at the county convention, state house districts separate and elect delegates to the state convention and CD conventions. Each candidate is allocated x number of delegates, and the supporters of each separate to elect who is going to the CD convention, where a few delegates are elected directly to the August convention, and other delegates are elected to state, where a few more delegates are elected for August.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!
(bear in mind I have no clue what normal is...on so very many levels...shut up Stan, I know I just walked right into that one, lol!)
They would just have to know they are being elected as un-pledged, wouldn't they, and would be voting according to their consciencs. If it can work for supers, why not unpledged?
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
Yeah, but "normal" in this case is based on caucus or primary results. I mean, I can say that I'm "unpledged," but everybody would know I support Hillary. The question is, how would delegates up the chain be chosen and by whom?
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!
because not doing so might cause the supporters of the losing candidate to feel they were cheated.
Well - they were. By their party - not by the candidates.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
the voters; just don't hurt the candidate's feelings.
Typical political b.s.
"Oh, just a broken-hearted Hoover fixer sucker guy." suggested Obama supporter theme song
I've been away a while but I thought I should pop in for this one. I had breakfast with the State party chair Mark Brewer about two weeks ago, my state rep was there with us. We can't afford to pay for another primary, bottom line. This state is in a single state recession with a greatest economic woes in the nation and we can't just pull $10 million out of the rainy day fund to pay for a do-over. A Caucus would normaly take a year to plan and execute...so if we held one of those between now and June it would be ramshackle at best, probably have a lot of confusion by voters on where to go, not to mention Michigan has never caucused in recent times, we don't have any trained personnel to run the damn things if we did hold one.
This all stems from the new election calender that was pushed for most strongly by Carl Levin and Mark Brewer...yet somehow we got screwed in the deal, in retrospect maybe moving our primary up in response was a bad idea, but the good that can come out of this is showing what a gigantic mess the whole system is. the hope is that next time things will be done in a more fair,reasonable way. The state of Michigan is facing problems that will weigh heavy on the next President, it is unfathomable that we be left out of this process. Donna Brazile was part of the problem when she supported SC and NV as early voting states instead of Michigan. If we are going to have a new primary here then the Clinton and Obama campaigns should be willing to help foot the bill.
I didn't even vote in our primary and I know a lot of other involved Democrats who did the same because we already felt beforehand that we had been deprived of a voice in this nominating process. If this doesn't get resolved then I am going out on a limb here and predicting that Michigan will go for McCain in November...too many good people will just stay home.
Ron Esquerra
Alger County Democratic Party
Upper Peninsula Veterans Coordinator-
www.michigan4clark.com
refusal to drop out of the race and hand the nomination over to BHO is causing a fissure in the Democratic Party. HA! That's just a smokescreen for what might truly cause the most damage to the party and that is the way this whole thing with Michigan & Florida came to be and has been playing out over time.
You want to talk about dropping the ball?! If Donna Brazile is the person most responsible for this fiasco, then she should be relieved of her position, immediately. It is a well-known fact that she is partial to one particular candidate and it may impact the entire outcome of this nomination process. That woman, Ms. Brazile, must not have the final word when it comes to resolving this mess.
No matter how this situation is resolved, fully one half of the country's Dem voters will not be at all happy with the results. It is a make or break scenario where 2 states + 1 candidate will end up being the losers.
To coin a phrase: "Donna, you've done one heckuva a job!"
..By BTD of what the Sunday Morning blatherfests are saying about it
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/9/94722/46953
"It's not all about words and math. It comes down to who can win."
Sounds like Kerry was, typically, not in favor of a re-vote. Heck, why would we expect anything less? He wasn't even for an investigation/recount in Ohio when his own presidential bid was on the line.
I'm glad I didn't bother to watch. It would have just ruined my day!
http://elections.gmu.edu/Voter_Turnout_2008_Primaries.htm
"It's not all about words and math. It comes down to who can win."
It shows the caucus states bring out about 5% of the eligible voters on average, while the primary states average around 40%. Now, which one is best representative of "true" democracy?
"Oh, just a broken-hearted Hoover fixer sucker guy." suggested Obama supporter theme song
my forthcoming outburst:
Screw the Party! Whatever happened to "for the good of the people"?
Maybe the Dem Party being torn apart is not such a bad thing in the long run - in my not-even-remotely-humble-on-this-issue opinion, they could stand a little remodeling.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
To paraphrase a line about programmers and computer systems...
If architects built buildings the way Democrats run campaigns, a single woodpecker could destroy Western civilization.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!
Republican House rules chairman David Rivera said he likes the idea of a mail election if the Democrats pay for it. Meantime, he has asked the House elections committee to research a bill that would ban the Democratic nominee from the Florida ballot in November if the national party refuses to seat the state's delegates.
http://www.bradenton.com/local/story/453454.html
"It's not all about words and math. It comes down to who can win."
Jeralyn @ Talk Left
As I wrote below, no candidate was required to withdraw from the Michigan or Florida primaries as part of the Four State Pledge (pdf).
John Edwards and Barack Obama were on the ballot in Florida, but withdrew from the Michigan race. Why?
Bill Schneider at CNN had a very plausible explanation:
CNN's Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider suggested the Democrats who withdrew may have calculated that it was simply in their best political interest to do so."If there's no campaign, the candidate most likely to win Michigan is Hillary Clinton," Schneider said. "Her Democratic rivals don't want a Clinton victory in Michigan to count. They want Iowa and New Hampshire, where they have a better chance of stopping Clinton, to count more."
Chris Dodd and Mike Gravel, along with Hillary, elected to remain on the Michigan ballot (Michigan.gov). Biden, along with Obama and Edwards, chose to withdraw their names. Dennis Kucinich thought he filed the paperwork to withdraw but missed the deadline and was on the ballot.
~ snip ~
It was widely disseminated in Michigan, including by some official county websites, that if the voter didn't want to vote for those on the ballot, they should vote "uncommitted."
There is an “uncommitted” selection on the ballot. By voting “uncommitted” you are indicating that you have chosen to vote in a particular party’s primary, however you do not wish to vote for one of the listed candidates.Rep. John Conyers pushed the "vote uncommitted" meme (blackamericaweb):
"The way the system is currently set up is inherently unfair," Michigan Rep. John Conyers told BlackAmericaWeb.com. "We are not going to just sit back and take this. I strongly encourage everyone in Michigan to go the polls. If your candidate’s name is not on the ballot, vote 'uncommitted.'"Conyers and his wife even ran radio ads urging people to vote uncommitted. Here's the script:
~ snip ~
In 2004, about 150,000 Democrats (CNN) voted in the Michigan caucuses. This year, Michigan held a primary instead of caucuses and 600,000 Democrats voted (miboecfr.nictusa.com). Hillary won all but two counties, Washtenaw and Emmett, where "uncommitted" won. The uncommitted total was 238,168. Hillary's total was 328,309.
It was Obama's choice to remove himself from the Michigan ballot. Did he do it for strategic reasons because Hillary was leading by large margins in the polls (Here's one (strategicvision) from October 5 to 7, right before the drop out deadline, showing Hillary 42%, Obama 26%)? If so, why should there be a revote?
I think the DNC should remove the penalty from Michigan and Florida and seat the delegates. In Michigan's case, Hillary should get the delegates according to her vote total. The other delegates should remain "uncommitted" and vote how they want when they get to the convention.
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
The more important point
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 08:28:44 PM EST
is that Obama backers organized a strong effort to get voters out to VOTE uncommitted.
It was not a spontaneous occurrence despite all the protestations to the contrary.
BTWby Big Tent Democrat on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 08:29:37 PM EST
Clinton backers in MI did the same thing to get folks to vote Clinton.
The fact is everybody violated the SPIRIT of the pledges n Michigan and Florida.
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
I just found this on Talk Left...glad you posted it and I checked over here.
I was one of many who got the phone call to vote uncommitted.
He sure laid it out well and wish people would wake up!!
Thoughts worth considering from DFP. Though I don't agree with everything said here (Hillary's supposed attitude about Michigan, for example), I do agree that "do overs" in Michigan (and Florida) are not solutions. The states should continue to take this fight to the DNC. Another bad idea, I think, is the notion that a shared ticket would somehow be a compromise solution.
Let's help Hillary win the nomination, and let her have all the latitude that the nominee should have in choosing her running mate! The old "heartbeat away" thing should always be a paramount consideration.
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080309/COL33/803090550/1068/OPINION
...the original vote to move the FL primary up and the charge that the Dems were somehow complicit.
Via Crooks and Liars.... snipped from an interview by Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida on Fox
DWS: I would like to answer your question without you asking me another one, if you don’t mind. The legislation that was originally sponsored was amended into an overall election package that included the major provision to ensure that we could have manual recounts and a paper trail. So this was a major election package that a change in the date of our primary was included in. So the vote total was unanimous, but that was because there was no one in the Florida legislature was going to vote against changing our voting system so that you could have a paper trail and make sure that every vote could be counted, unlike our touch screen voting system right now, which doesn’t allow for that. So to try to hang a unanimous vote on the fact that Democrats supported that, that’s misleading. They supported it because they certainly weren’t going to vote against making sure there was a paper trail in Florida.
"It's not all about words and math. It comes down to who can win."
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/11/13245/8058
BTD...
Who is afraid of the Big Bad Revote? Barack Obama is. And it can not be denied anymore.
"It's not all about words and math. It comes down to who can win."
...and logistics of a FL Dem "do over by mail"....
Florida Democratic Party’s Mark Bubriski Has the Answers
1. Isn’t federal money required to pay for a federal election? And won’t it be close to impossible to raise the necessary millions of dollars under federal fundraising rules?
No. The primary can be paid for with non-federal funds, according to the DNC’s legal department and other legal experts.
2. How late will they have to hold the election to allow for overseas military voters to have time to send their ballots back?
We have until June 10, according to DNC rules. Ballots for military/overseas would be sent approximately 45 days prior to the election.
3. How will the state get U.S. Justice Department sign-off fast enough, since Florida, as a “pre-clearance” state, is required to show that any election rules meet federal Voting Rights Act standards?
This is a very inclusive process and, per Section 2, ballots would be printed in English, Spanish and Creole. Specific consideration has already been given to the five Florida counties affected by Section 5.
4. How long a lead time will be needed to allow for voter registration?
Generally, 30-45 days are needed.
5. Can the state and state Democratic Party successfully negotiate with all 67 county supervisors of elections to even hold a statewide election?
If a plan is developed and agreed upon by Democratic leaders in Florida, the DNC and and the candidates, it would be conducted by the Florida Democratic Party with the oversight of a reputable accounting firm. The government’s only role would be to perform signature verification, which groups pay them to do.
6. Will Republicans and independents who already voted in the January 29th Republican primary be allowed to switch their registration and vote in the new contest?
No one who voted in the Republican primary on Jan. 29 will be eligible to vote in the Democratic primary, even if they switch parties. Our voter file enables us to identify these voters.
7. Will the state’s first-ever such vote-by-mail election produce anything like the record turnout that Democrats saw in January? And what if they fall fall short?
We hope that the extraordinary excitement around the campaigns for Senators Clinton and Obama result in considerably higher turnout, but, even if that doesn’t happen, Florida voters will have been full participants in the nominating process.
8. Is vote-by-mail event legal under Florida law, which states “(2) The following elections may not be conducted by mail ballot: (a) An election at which any candidate is nominated, elected, retained, or recalled. . . .”? Read full statute here.
This would be a party-run process. State election law does not have jurisdiction over it.
http://thepage.time.com/florida-democratic-partys-mark-bubriski-has-the-answers/
"It's not all about words and math. It comes down to who can win."
pdf of today's proposal from the FL Democratic Party
"It's not all about words and math. It comes down to who can win."
Seems to me, it's the same issue that will make me change my registration back to indy (I already answer "I" since Kerry's concession)
Dona Brazille - Rove's buddy - who thinks maybe blacks should ally themselves with the party in power for a change
In 2000 she agreed with Kopperl that blacks in a county in florida that had a f*ed up ballot "needed education" and it was the DNC fault for not bringing them up to speed...
Bitch is the new black
They should be closed primaries. Nobody should get to vote in the Democratic party primary who only wants to be a Democrat for a day. We're electing the Democratic nominee for cripesake, not laying down in front of the people who want to hijack the party. Otherwise, if it's OK with Michigan and Florida, it's OK with me.