Wes at UCLA- Rogue States Conference PART 2
Submitted by ms in la on April 11, 2008 - 3:24am.
Democratic politics | Firsthand Accounts | Iran | Iraq | Middle East | National Security | Wesley Clark
RECAP from UCLA Rogue States Conference PART I:
Just in case anyone forgot, here is Part 1:
http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/15014
And seeing as I was so late getting to Part 2 (insert very guilty faced emoticon) I thought you could use a recap. You can hopefully understand when you scroll down, and down, and down… why this took so long to pull together. Transcribing is a painstaking exercise in patience and rewind…
This intro is snipped from Part 1 to refresh your memory.
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The concept for this final wrap up panel was so clever. Each participant had been asked to prepare in advance for a hypothetical scenario. Here’s the set up (again)--charmingly iterated by LA Times Washington Bureau Chief, Doyle McManus.
Doyle McManus
”It’s November 15th. General Clark has assembled you to brief the President elect… whoever she is. (big laughs) You have been told that you have 10 minutes on the President elected’s schedule, but you know that politicians have a short attention span. The President elect is going to hear the first 3 minutes of what you say, is going to appear to listen to the next 3 minutes of what you say—but after that the law of diminishing returns will kick in. What is your briefing for the President elect? Of all of the threats and challenges we’ve been talking about here - we can’t take them all on at once. So which threats are the most threatening? Give us a recommendation of what to do on at least one of those.”
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Kahler & Pletka & Clark –Oh my!
Dr. Miles Kahler, in a departure from fellow panelists, takes a unique and comedic approach to his Presidential briefing assignment – He reads a letter… from the future…
Dr. Miles Kahler
Professor International Relations, UC San Diego
Well, this is a letter that was discovered in the University of California archives in 2050 by someone who was present at the briefing, and it’s dated April, 2009. “Dear President______, you can fill in the blanks. I was flattered by a personal request for my thoughts on the subject of rogue states. Even though you were unable to find a suitable position for me as part of the new foreign policy team…(huge laughs from the room) I have had some help with my advice from outside the beltway. Due to constraints on your time, I’ve limited my advice to six brief recommendations for your administration :”
The six Kahler recommendations, summarized, are:
1) Avoid the use of the category “Rogue States“-- also “Axis of Evil”, ‘States of concern’.
2) Define precisely the behavior that threatens the US, and find the international and domestic sources of that behavior.
3) Pursue regional solutions – note regional dynamics. Despite the rhetoric, these states’ hostile stance is not always about us.
4) Beware of state failures. Serious threats emerge from them. The Middle East is full of failed states and those teetering on the brink of failure. (Lebanon, Palestine, Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan) Our model for regime change should be Serbia- where US and Europe played a significant but ‘backstage’ role. The regime that succeeded Milosovich was a Serbian creation.
5) Mobilize ALL the US policy instruments at our proposals in dealing with these states. The military instrument is often the least effective. Economic sanctions less effective now as well.
6) Reconsider using our ‘old’ strategies (ick! “old”!) Containment and deterrence are tried and true in history. Requires bipartisanship and patience to work these.
Miles then ends his letter to the President with this crowd pleaser (*Raustiala is from the UCLA Burkle School):
“Please give my best to General Clark and Kal Raustiala…” (the room erupts in loud laughter) “ – and every member of your team. I hope to hear from them when they settle into Washington. Please let me know, Mr. President… er-- Madame President… if you would like further advice on this issue... Of course it would be easier to offer advice if I was closer at hand.”
He earns a warm round of applause from the crowd. And we’ll need it, because coming up next is… Ms Project for a New American Century herself, Danielle Pletka….
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Danielle Pletka
VP for Foreign & Defense Policy Studies, American Enterprise Institute (AEI)
In introducing Ms. Pletka, Doyle McManus sardonically remarks that our new President has not only crossed the gender bias in assigning this advisory briefing panel… but has “even reached out to the American Enterprise Institute”! Heh.
Pletka leaned into the microphone and an icy aura wafted across the room… I instinctively pull my jacket around me a little tighter. Puffs of frost sprung from her mouth as she opened it to speak...
(Well, OK… maybe I’m exaggerating about the puffs-- but she does create a perceptible mood shift when she takes stage. I’m pondering a side theory that extremist republicans might provide a cost effective antidote to global warming.)
The most hypnotic thing about listening to Ms PNACtka is the tone, and the monotone, of her vocal inflection. She’s a low-talker who speed-rattles her words a mileaminute into one-long-rambling-string—you’ve heard it before from female Republican punditry. The familiar: “I’m so unbelievably bored to be here talking to you pond scum just let me just get through it and get out of here and hopefully one or two of you might be lucky enough to grasp something I’ve said and be enlightened by it… ” tone.
I will confess to being impressed by Pletka’s raw intellect -- possibly a tad overly educated for her own good, an asset she uses repeated to drive her points home – but it all seems to belie some festering private insecurity. Behind the smug veneer, one senses a young girl crouching inside in a defensive posture… teased in school, something of a lingering maladjust . I decide that she was never hugged enough and am disarmed to find myself starting to feel sorry for her as she droned on.
She was clad in all black. Black sweater, black watch, black glasses frames offset by a short wispy haircut, bangs frosted with highlights, and polished red fingernails..
A funny thing happened -- Pletka started to speak and General Clark abruptly sprung up from his seat next to her - Blackberry wire in ear, and excusing himself, scurried across the floor and out the door… obviously tending to an important call. I have never seen him do this before and wondered at the time if it might have been related to the Admiral Fallon resignation, or the Clinton campaign… or… what? Pletka couldn’t resist the snarkilicious opportunity to deadpan:
“General Clark has more common sense than the rest of us-- getting up and leaving in the middle. Perhaps he doesn’t want to be a part of this administration. Can’t say I blame him.” (gasps, giggles and groans from the crowd)
Her first sage piece of advice for the newly elected President was-- ironically:
“Don’t lie to yourself”…
“There’s a tendency to want to believe that -- When I am in power, whoever ‘I’ may be, or when ‘my guy’ is in power, or ‘my lady’, as the case may be here at UCLA (Ooh! Snap!) -- that everything will be different. I think that one of the things we will look forward to, if in fact one of the Democratic Senators is elected President, is a President who has served in the United States Senate throughout the time of a Republican President. In other words, one that really has never had to contend with their OWN party in the White House, and really can afford to say to themselves… ‘Everything will be different when I am there’…without actually knowing the reality of that.”
Is she saying that “we” (ie 'conservatives') just can’t wait for a Dem to get into the White House so they can find out that nothing will change and fall flat on their face? Read on.
“Having served for 10 years in the senate as a staff member-- under both Republican and Democratic leadership in the senate and in the White House-- let me just say that, while there are certainly people numerous and notorious in Washington who are wont to lie to themselves… It is, in fact, not true that things are easier if you are just ‘nicer’…and if you don’t use certain rhetoric…. if you embrace your enemies… if you engage very, very nice words that are very popular in academia…. in the real world they’re [inaudible- someone coughed! ] --and don’t care if you want to engage them or not.”
Hmmm… Kind of sounds like cautioning words of warning to the new Prez to not be too naïve – not to think they can just charm-school their way into any real ‘bipartisanshipness’ with the ‘enemy’ on the other side of the aisle…
On to the ‘substance’ – she offers what she believes will be the real challenge facing the next Presidents, plural.
“It’s not the question of non-proliferation the way we like to talk about it – as in Iran, North Korea, even Syria or Israel -- It is the question of the collapse of the global non-proliferation regime. That sounds like a very wonky kind of thing to talk about. The fact is that the non-proliferation treaty doesn’t work anymore-”
She explains that we have sanctioned and urged nuclear energy development in countries such as Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Turkey and that we need to reconcile that with the failures of the nuclear non proliferation treaty- with countries that abandon the treaty to step away and then later procure nuclear weapons. Which is … not good….
THE SKEERY STUFF
The other issue she wants to stress as a major challenge for the new President is-- (I was waiting for this one)-- “The reconstitution of Al Qaeda”…
”We talked about Pakistan today. We managed very nicely to barely mention the Taliban or Al Qaeda. The truth is that Al Qaeda has reconstituted itself, besides in Iraq, in Pakistan**. It’s where they operate-- where they can operate with latitude. They are able to conduct and plan operations in, what I would say, is a fair amount of luxury… about what it is they’re going to do next. Sure, the organization is evolving, but at the end of the day, a lot of the root causes of Al Qaeda’s ‘popularity’ – in particular the antipathy towards the West, the lack of freedom in the Muslim world-- are going to continue, and they’re going to be a challenge for the next President and Presidents thereafter.”
** MS notes: all the conference speakers landed repeatedly on Pakistan with a new ‘relevancy’ and urgency that I don’t recall hearing so much in recent past. It seems to be the threat du jour of the wonky crowd.
Ms Pletka offers her solutions next.
“—So what are the prescriptions? I think one of the first things that we need to do is to try to respond more aggressively to this collapse of non proliferation regimes. We need to be proactive in thinking not just about Iran or N. Korea, but in thinking about what country-neutral solutions are that we can start to negotiate multi-laterally, internationally, even through the United Nations, in order to ensure that this collapse does not continue and that we’ve done something to put in place a next generation of rules on non proliferation.
I promise you there was not one punctuation mark in any of this. Just one exceedingly long run-on sentence that tumbled on and on in the span of one endless exhale.
Another thing we need to do is to start competing with Iran. Dalia is exactly right. Iran has a very coherent and very serious strategy throughout its own region and further abroad, and the United States is not on the ground. It’s true that it’s not easy for us to compete in places like Syria, in places like Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iraq and the West Bank and Gaza— We don’t compete with them. Because we have a feckless aid program. We have a very, very incompetent [inaudible – but sounds like “medical”? ] programs and we frankly don’t do a good job, no administration has looked very seriously at revamping that and it would be very worthwhile…
On the question of Al Qaeda, its like, what we really need to be doing – and here’s the red meat-- is clearly what George Bush called the “Freedom Agenda” (ms screams inside: Ahhhh!!) at the end of the day – while we continue to fight Al Qaeda on the ground. The truth is that where these organizations find constituency, even if it isn’t the violent constituency, is in places where there is no freedom of choice. Where, in fact, all you get to choose between is either the Islamic extremist opposition-- or the local secular dictatorship. That continues to be the case very much so in places like Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.
Russia and China. We need to engage…we need to talk to these countries. But we also need to be firm with them. […] We need to express our concerns about their human rights violations – about their bullying in their neighborhood. Because that bullying has an impact on us. […]
(After a bit more chatting , she abruptly ends with a curt; “Thank you” followed by applause.:).
McManus: Beautifully done. You too are hired. … To the surprise of everyone who worked on the campaign. (laughs around the room)
Pletka: “It might be the end of my marriage but….”
** Her husband is Bushie Stephen Rademaker
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Stephen_G._Rademaker
McManus then boldly asks her whether or not she agreed with most of the panelists of the day - That a policy of ‘regime change’ has pretty much been a failure for the US and has gotten in the way of our progress…? She snapped at that bone in a flash.
“No. Of course I don’t agree. (a slight toss of the head) I think that regimes that are anathema to our interests and inimical to our national security are ones that ultimately we would like to get rid of. What everybody’s talking about here… are the words we use, coined by the way by the Clinton* administration — as a way of bringing even more euphemism to foreign policy.“
(*Ever notice the way Republicans spit out “Clinton” as if it were a swear word?)
”What we really need to do is overthrow people”…”
Yes… she said that.
“If you want to call it that, I’m alright with that. Look- the problem is ‘regime change’ has become equated with military action and of course military action is not an optimal solution- it is the last solution that anyone wants. The problem is that our adversaries have very successfully manipulated the debate, I would argue, in order to have folks like you arguing on their behalf that the American government shouldn’t be talking about getting rid of bad guys-- when in fact we know that the world would be a better place if Kim Jong Il wasn’t the dictator of N. Korea, and Saddam Hussein wasn’t the dictator of Iraq, and Khamenei wasn’t the dictator of Iran, etc etc etc. “
So …Australian born Danielle Pletka’s prescription for America is to... “overthrow people”. What can you say? Dissent is the highest form of patriotism…
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WES- The Voice of Reason- WRAPS UP
General Wes Clark
After thanking the panel for doing a great job, Wes concludes the conference.
Our next president is going to have to start with a comprehensive national strategy. It’s going to consist of making more friends and fewer enemies in the world. It’s going to consist of working with others to make America stronger and safer. And it’s going to move away from the idea that — as one investment banker explained it to me after 9-11…He said “Wes, you don’t seem to understand. This is a new world here. And the United States is NOT going to be threatened again! And ANYBODY that threatens us- we’re going to attack them!”
Well I appreciate that…. He was the chairman of [Company name inaudible] then and he’s worth a lot of money… but they’re not in the armed forces. And his taxes have been lowered. And if you operate on that philosophy, it’s a pretty expensive, difficult road to go down. And it doesn’t necessarily make you safer.
Danielle is scribbling away on her notepad during this part ;)
So- we’re going to back away from that idea. There’s a place for pre-emption. No nation has to stand by and find itself attacked. And if you have the evidence and the information that you’re about to be attacked, then we’ll certainly defend ourselves pre-emptively. But a preventive war? No, I think we’ll back away from that if we’re wise. The big idea will be to work with others and strengthen America at home and abroad.
** Hmmm. Is Wes’s Freudian slip usage of We and Us here indicative of some future key role he is playing in this’ imaginary’ future administration?
We’ll have to have some clearer definition of priorities. Most administrations start with a pretty clear definition of priorities because it’s pretty much academic, and then they bleed off into the realities. I can remember talking to Condi Rice in the summer of 2000, and she said: (Wes does his best Condi)
“You people in the Clinton administration screwed things up. You let our relations with Russia get all out of hand over the Balkans.” She said there was no necessity for it and she said, “If it hadn’t been for you- we’d have good relations with the Russians. We’re going to have good relations, and we’re going to work together with the Russians,” she said... I don’t know if she remembers that conversation…
(UCLA classroom is ROFL!)
Perhaps the raucous laughter that General Clark elicited with his Condi story was responsible for the terribly vexed look on Pletka’s face, hand propping up her chin as if to say “Uh-Unh. Don’t mess with Condi, General”. Wes continues, and throughout the following, Danielle listens with increasing skepticism, studying Wes -- frowning and disturbed...
So what would some of the priorities be? There are still a lot of people who want to hurt America out there. I don’t think there’s a billion person Islamic conspiracy to destroy the West and they hate us because we’re free.{Was that the sound of Pletka fainting?) But there are a band of nuts out there and to some extent our actions in Iraq have empowered them…. They’re not the KGB. They’re not supported by a superpower. They don’t have nuclear weapons and we don’t want them to have them. And we have a strategy to work against these people; we’re going to put that strategy to work. It is to take away their recruiting, their support base, and their finances… and then to use other nation’s capabilities- intelligence, information sharing, law enforcement, and (sing along Clarkies!) only as a last resort… the military.
And that means that we’re going to work very closely with countries like Pakistan- (Ding!) who have a lot to say about the effectiveness of the United States anti-terror program. And we’re going to work very closely with Afghanistan…we’re going to increase the priority to that theatre of operations. We’re going to do it with a comprehensive strategy for success that includes dealing with the opium production issue in Afghanistan, as well as the problem of the cross-border sanctuary in Pakistan.
Wes then discussed the need to continue the dialogue with N. Korea, and up the intensity of it.
“They’re tough negotiators and when they look at us - they don’t trust us. What would happen to N. Korea if they gave up their nuclear weapons program? Why we’d probably walk in there and just take the whole country – it’s so valuable! (more laughs) This is, for them, regime survival… And they’re gonna be wily, tough, cagey, second guessing negotiators. They’re gonna put it on the table (Wes slams the table repeatedly), and take it off, and put it on, and take it off - and they don’t talk baseball. So I’ve heard…
WES on IRAN
General Clark says that the policies of all the Democrats who’ve sought the office are identical in the respect that we’re not going to tolerate a nuclear armed Iran. What do you do about it? Wes tells us you must have three parallel efforts:
1) “You must examine the real military options. Some of us here have pretty good understanding of the military-- we know how it interfaces with politics, how painful it can be, and we know that in general you should use the military only as a last, last, last resort. Once you use it- it’s very difficult to end it. It’s very difficult to extricate. And there are a lot of unexpected consequences.”
2) He offers that we need to be able to persuade the Iranians that they will be much more prosperous, more prominent regionally, and more accepted in the world community-- if they DON’T have nuclear weapons.
3) He then postulates the hypothetical - “What if somehow they sneak this thing through? And suddenly, Boom! There’s a nuke! Now what? What would it take to live with this? What do we do?”
“So we’ve got a lot of homework left to do on Iran.” He brings up the Shah in 1978, previous mistakes in our Iran policy resulting in what Wes describes as; “Events accelerated and we lost the government of Iran. So I’m really cautious about pushing a ‘democracy agenda’ too far and too fast.”
Then he’s back on Condi! He tells us she was warned repeatedly not to push the democracy agenda in the elections in the Palestinian authority. She was warned they would elect Hamas-- but (Quel surprise!) she didn’t want to listen. And they elected Hamas.
I’ve been to the region probably a dozen times in the last 4 or 5 years, and I haven’t found one academician, scholar, military person, or government leader, or businessman… who has asked us to come to their country and do for them what we did for Iraq. Not one.
A mortified Pletka gives General Clark the laser death stare at this last declaration. I am starting to worry about the General’s security when he leaves the building…. ;)
CLOSING STATEMENTS
Because the parts of the conference I’d heard had a noticeable Pakistan focus – I’ll include one Wes snip about this enigmatic ally of ours.
“Pakistan is a country of 165 to 170 million people. You cannot send in a couple of marine expeditionary forces to control Pakistan… if it has to be sorted out. They have their own country and they’re going to do it their own way. I have concerns, as a practitioner, about how hard you push on your friends...”
“Iraq will be the centerpiece for the next administration.”
(I muse that the next President might prefer something more along the lines of carnations and chrysanthemums for a centerpiece…) Wes then guesstimates that we’ll be “down below 130,000 troops by Jan 2009, but not much below.
There’s a whole world out there looking for American leadership. I think that Dan [Drezner ] is right - we probably don’t have as much power as we did in 1992 or even in 2000. That’s the sad reality. But we’ve still got a great set of cards. Great technology, great values, people who want to come here and study and want us as their friends, and as a last resort… we’ve still got the most wonderful, selfless and incredible democratic armed forces in the world, if we just take care of them. We’re still the most potent player in the world arena… people are still looking to us for leadership. I hope what we’ll be able to do in the next administration is… Start at home. By living up to the standards that we profess, and setting the highest possible example.
….And I just want to second everything Bill Richardson said about not doing Guantanamo. About protecting our own constitutional rights and values in this country and then becoming again-- a beacon of hope and responsibility to the rest of the world. I think America can come back. I think it will come back. Thank you.
Are you all clapping, Clarkies?
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A Q & A exchange followed where one questioner proposed an ‘unfortunate scenario’ -- a pullout of Iraq where the civil war breaks much worse following our departure. What do we do? – How do we prepare for such an eventuality?
Danielle Pletka responds first:
We know what happens in Iraq when we don’t have enough troops because it ‘s what happened in 2004 and 2005…The bottom line is some civil war comes back if Al Qaeda comes back. […] The idea that Iran is going to fight Al Qaeda is silly -- Iran’s not fighting Al Qaeda. Iran is paying out Al Qaeda. Iran is giving safe haven to Al Qaeda. I think bad things would happen and we would lose control. And of course for a short period of time it would look very attractive but, in the long run, of course, we’re quitters…And you remember what Osama bin Laden said about that.
Wes Clark counters:
Well, I don’t think we’re going to stay in Iraq because of the threat that Osama bin Laden might call us a wimp. And… so—
Offended, Pletka interrupts:
– Well if we’d have been more cognizant of that, maybe we wouldn’t be in the mess that we’re in now—
And Wes snaps back:
--If we’d been more cognizant of that - maybe we wouldn’t have invaded Iraq.
(Woot! Touche! Round of applause for General Smackdown!)
Wes: So whether it’s President McCain, or President Clinton, or President …. uh… Obama … they’re going to have to answer the issue of - what are the risks right now, day one, for the United States of America at home? And that’s going to be the top underlying concern of any American President from here on out. They’re never going to be able to sleep at night and say “Everything’s good. Everything’s OK. Nothing bad could happen to our country”. […]
I think that with the right guidance from the top, there’s a very good chance that you can prevent indefinitely another 9-11 type incident in the United States.
As for Iraq, the next administration will not simply have to just explain how to pull out our troops…. but will have all kinds of other efforts: diplomatic, political and contingency-- designed to forestall the possibility that, as we slip our brigades back to Kuwait and then home, that suddenly, you know, Iranian volunteers are going to seize in there, move in, empower the Shia militia, and they’re going to move forth and seize control of the country. So I think there’ll be a lot of contingency work done.
And then, with the tone of utmost gravitas, General Clark underscores for us:
There’s nothing more difficult than a military withdrawal.
It’s going to be ugly and difficult. There’s no putting colored paper over it… This is going to be a Very. Tough. Challenge….
…And you believe him. The crowd is pin drop still and riveted.
Every argument is going to weigh against withdrawing those forces. The argument of Al Qaeda coming back. The argument that the Iranians will come in. The argument that it will undercut the security in Israel. The argument that it will undercut US prestige. The argument that, just as when Israel withdrew from south Lebanon, Al Qaeda said, “We ran you out!” – I’m sure there’ll be an Al Qaeda website, or maybe a thousand of them, that says; “We ran you out of Iraq! You wouldn’t stay!” But, you know… that’s not in itself the right reason to stay. What we’ve got to have is smart enough policy to deal with the real risks that are a threat to the United States in an effective manner.
MY CHAT WITH GENERAL CLARK
I had been saving my comments and questions for Wes until the end. The break time had proved too short to get into it, and besides, Wes was busy making key introductions for the student eager to pursue a career in Intelligence (That’s our guy— using his break time to help bolster national security for future generations!)
After the panel had concluded, Wes stepped down from the dais where I managed to catch him in a rare, unattended moment -- and I seized the opportunity. I wanted to tell him, without whining, about the many challenges us Hillary-supporting Clarkies had been enduring of late --- about dodging artillery 24/7 from the right, from the left, and even from the nebulous middle. Knowing his packed schedule, I figured he might’ve missed the bulk of the ongoing netroots crossfire, so I decided to bring him up to date and ask for some of that sage Wes Clark guidance for us going forward. I had no idea how passionate and pointed his response would be.
** I need to insert here that-- prior to posting this conversation-- I thought long and hard, even begging the counsel of several trusted Clarkies, about just how much of our “off the record” conversation would be appropriate to publish on CCN without betraying the General’s trust. I ultimately erred on the side of caution, out of respect, so this will be the slightly’ redacted’ version… (Appreciative hat tip to fellow Clarkies)
“I NEVER SAID THAT!”
Beginning with a brief discussion of the Nick Juliano Raw Story mischaracterization of Wes’s words – (twisting them to infer that Wes had somehow stated that Obama was “unfit to be CIC”)— We breezed over how it had transpired, the Kos blowback, our attempts to correct the record, post the transcript, and defend the false accusations.
Wes raised his voice- emphatically interjecting: "—I NEVER said that!!"
"I know-- we’ve been copy-pasting the conference call transcript all over the place to prove it.” But there was, I explained, a stubborn refusal by many to even read or consider the actual words spoken-- in favor of looking instead for some cryptic, hidden meaning encoded between the lines, and inserting any context that best suited their own political agenda. So, in blogger logic—even if you never said it -- what translates a few hours later after a horde of angry bloggers have been chewing on it en masse is— You meant it! And in blogger court – popular opinion is both judge and jury. Evidence be damned!
Wes was clearly distressed about his comments being misconstrued, most likely because, learning the hard way, he is so cautious and specific about what he says and what he doesn’t say. Ghosts of Arianna Huffington and “New York money people” hover over us as we tread familiar ground...
This widened into a broader discussion of press mischaracterizations in general (no pun) and the national sport of Hillary-bashing taking place in the media. We tracked the flow of much of the ‘garbage’ -- from Daily KObama to Keith Olbermann, down the halls of MSNBC, over to Air America, eventually winding its way to the second tier ‘progressive’ outlets and blogs. By way of example, I recounted for Wes the latest Randi Rhodes histrionics I’d heard on the radio on the drive over to UCLA – Randi proclaimed that Hillary was out to ‘slash and burn’ our election so that McCain would win (and bomb Iran) so that she could then run again in 2012. “She wants to start World War III ...all to fulfill her own ambitions!” Randi railed. Wes was flabbergasted. With a WTF look plastered on his face, he concurred that the story was ridiculous…but what on earth was she thinking??
(** As I type, it has just been announced that Rhodes has resigned from her recently truncated position on Air America. As a longtime listener, I recall that she had broken her own cardinal rule about media not dividing the party by taking sides during the primaries. So many times lately, it felt as though Randi's common sense had taken leave long before she herself did...)
ORDERS FROM THE GENERAL
I’m always conscious of taking too much of the General’s time in a public setting where there are so many so eager to visit with him. But each time that I sensed my ‘good will’ time had expired and I'd back off to leave, waving "Bye-Bye, General Clark!"-- Wes would elbow past some patient person in line, come up to me and start in again. Looking at me sternly and reminding me I need to keep fighting for this, for him, for Hillary.
I've never known Wes to reiterate anything so much as that afternoon, when he kept emphatically repeating:
Now look! You've got to keep fighting this! You've got to keep it up- all of you! Keep fighting. Don't give up! Don't stop!
I felt like a private first class getting my marching orders from a, er... highly motivated General! :)
I accepted the ‘call to duty’ but restated just how brutal it had been lately for so many of us - the levels of vitriol being so high-pitched… making it at times insufferable to even blog.
Looking both really sad and mad simultaneously, Wes responded:
"I know! Even my own team - my blog - has been split up over this."
I was struck by his heartfelt and pained expression. We know he reads and loves his blog and his bloggers -- but calling us “my team- my blog” in that plaintive voice, seemed at once so parental and so caring… It felt as though we were all some sort of surrogate kids he’d adopted, whom he wants to flourish but equally wants to protect. Hmmm... So that would make Wes and Gert kind of like the Brad and Angelina of the net, and.... Okay, okay, I may be reading too much into it ;b-- but I can tell you that Wes is deeply saddened by CCN being torn apart and by any semblance of Clarkie Civil (or uncivil?) Wars taking place.
I nodded and commiserated with him, then politely started to head out again, waving goodbye....
Again-- he leaned forward and stressed:
“You’ve got to keep fighting! On the net, everywhere, you’ve got to fight this!”
Yes, General, got it... Keep fighting. : /
By this time, I'm already tired and haven't even begun this ‘new fight’ yet, heh — But whether it’s from here at CCN, or elsewhere - I know that complying with the General’s latest orders is now well drummed into my head and atop the agenda. ;) Something in his voice, his face, his body language-- convinced me that this little netroots fight for accuracy and parity on behalf of Hillary Clinton is much more critical in the scheme of things than it appears on the surface. With this unbridled passion emanating from a Four Star General, a “Supreme Allied Commander”, who has successfully wrangled a few gnarly enemies of his own in his day... Something tells me we should all be paying attention.
We are all Wes Clark’s virtual troops right now and he wants his troops to be battle ready and on the front lines. He’s a little cranky, :-) and not in the mood to hear excuses. I hope we can make him proud of us.
Thanks everyone for you patience in waiting so long for this opus to get posted! (delete guilty faced emoticon) :D
Bravo!! Encore!
I love to read your FHAs! LOL!
Ah, marching orders. All I can say to that is "Sir, Yes Sir!" Once more, into the breach...
"She was clad in all black. Black sweater, black watch, black glasses frames offset by a short wispy haircut, bangs frosted with highlights, and polished red fingernails.."
Why is it that [non-gay] guys never seem to notice all of these details? Guess we tend to focus on singular details :)
Fabulous FHA as usual.
And yes, Sir. We will continue to fight.
It's so obvious that anything less than HRC in the WH causes him great concern.
"A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood of ideas in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." JFK
Thanks for your FHA part 2, written beautifully as usual!!!
Yes Sir, still fighting!! Go Hillary!!!!
If memory serves me, this is the conference that you barely got to attend at the very last minute. I guess if you hadn't been there, then we wouldn't have any marching orders! So thanks for being there at a critical point and sharing the state of the blogosphere with General Clark.
Proud to be an American.
That could be any of them Nelsons! I am always running in at the last moment breathless looking for a seat!
But this one I just missed Bill Richardson but did get to see the entire panel that I had planned on. I am SO happy Wes picked UCLA to be "fellowing" at! :D
Paraphrasing: don't let the propagandists and apologists for other candidates get away with their free ride on the media train.
Ms, thanks for the the tremendous effort putting this terrific account together for us! It's always good to get the General's take on things and hear his words of wisdom and experience. The immediate mission: helping Hillary win a solid victory in PA.
There aren't enough adjectives in the language to describe my maelstrom of feelings I had in reading this magnificent blog -- the superb reading, the interest, the entertainment, the intellectual content, and the guidance for the future. Thanks a brazillion for taking the time to enlighten us.
I'd love to see Wes put his own marching orders into a separate blog for us.
I hope you had a good night of rest after all the writing. You deserve it.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!
I always enjoy doing Wes FHA's- even if they do take so much time!
Just typing the words I learn something new that hadn't quite sunk in during the first hearing.
Maybe one day he'll be a full time UCLA professor and I can enroll! :)
Thanks so very much, Ms.
The General gets it right.
Competence--What a concept!
Thank you so much, MS, for posting this. Believe me, we are here fighting the battles in the divided Democratic South.
I am so glad to hear you express the same personal frustration with Randi Rhodes, (Ed Schultz for that matter), Olberman and MSNBC and all of the other media outlets that I use to take pleasure in listening to. I didn't know about Randi because I have, of late, completely tuned out her show. It was just too painful to listen to.
Well, I will keep on fighting. This weekend - calls to PA for Hillary. I wish that I had a national bully pulpit so that I could tell Obama Democrats what a huge mistake I think that they are making by trying to destroy Hillary. Obama is the one who has failed! He has failed to reach and convince almost half of the Democratic voters. His supporters are blind to how important foreign police experience, vision and economic policy wisdom will be for the next President.
Anyway, I want the General to know that I am glad to fight all the way for Hillary!
for your calls and your fighting spirit!
We need Knight Rider to come back with his Clark's Army Division.... or what was it? I always forgot the name but it was great.
I used to listen to Randi all the time, and defend her as well. I knew she was a bit overly impulse driven and obnoxious but she struck me as someone who did her homework and was serious in her research.
But like so many, she really changed once she committed to O! Do not understand what it is, but there is some part of the brain that he tickles that gets people to be led around by their emotions at the expense of their better reasoning skills it seems. Just an observation... She blew up on the air so many times in the past months- it was off-putting.
The progressive station here, AM760, announced today that Rhodes has signed on with the "Nova M" network, whatever that is, and will return to her usual slot Monday. Another blow to media integrity.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!
General Clark always and still knows what it's going to take to get our country back to a place we and the rest of the world can be proud of. And still knowing and trusting that he is almost always right, I don't understand how anyone who once worked to put him in the WH, now doubt that he still knows what needs to be done. And who the best person running for president is to take us there.
I wish you could have relayed the entire "private" conversation, but I think you did a good job of getting the main point across. And that is how very important it is that we get Hillary in the WH. I know he is sad about the breakup of his troops here, but I also know he understands it's not something we here can heal. Diplomacy doesn't work very well when emotions are running so high. I don't think most of us started out feeling so strongly against O, but one can only take so much abuse before you either stand up and fight back, or become an enabler to the attackers. The fact that he so strongly stressed for us to keep fighting, shows he knows we have been pushed to use the last, last, last resort.
The wait for this was worth it. Thank you for once again burning the midnight oil to share it with us. I'm sorry it's just a drive by, and hope one of these days you'll get to a place where you can come be here again. You're sorely missed.
Thank you.
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
very welcome, Jen!
It's such a sticky wicket to try to resolve all the bruised and hurt that has become part of this election. And there is a large faction of people in all arenas who seem to just need to exacerbate it further still. It feels like the bloodlust from the Roman Colloseum!
Like I said to donjo-- one day it will make a fascinating academic study. I just hope everyone can recover and find some place of peace. It's like that little thing I believe you posted awhile back... If you hear/read/see something that makes you feel hatred for another Democrat... stop and think. Question the source.
At KObama I get a strong sense of infiltration that exists ONLY to foster anger and hate. The user ID's are all huge numbers of the worst offenders- indicating newer users. And those user names- Plus there is so much parroting of the worst memes. The most hateful ones- repeated repeated repeated ad nauseum. I still maintain that Kos became a covert camp for the enemy! They use it as some cyber forward operating base to divide and conquer. Divide divide divide. It's working quite well so far. :P
The General's perspective is always reassuring. He lets us know there are plausible and intelligent solutions. It seems silly to say the word comforting, but that is how I feel every time after listening to General Clark.
So, thank you ms in la for bringing us his wise and comforting words.
Well done!
You are much appreciated.
I think every Clarkie shares that sentiment with you Amiel. This time in our history would have been the perfect time to have not only a capable, scary smart, leader with multiple skills and talents-- but to have someone who could COMFORT the nation. What a joy that would be. We are desperately in need of some Fireside Chats in this country...
I'll splash some water in my face and go another round, but it's against my better nature....
;)
Excellent report, ms, as always.
Thanks for emphasizing our marching orders! I am so there, and promise to fight my best until the final bell rings. Just two nights ago, I took on a small roomful of Obama supporting and undecided friends who were over for dinner and won over at least the one who now lives (and votes) in Pennsylvania! It was very cool to hear him say so. Nearly won over a couple of others as well, but they live in Colorado, so I'll see them again to continue the process as appropriate.
And, btw, my brilliant daughter has been working on matters vital to Pakistan for several years already. She knows just how critical it is to expand our relationships with the people of Pakistan. That's the same daughter who told me about some brilliant General named Wes Clark in the late 90s and who started her Master's thesis on the threat of al-Qaida and Osama bin Ladin in 2000. It's nice to see the policy wonks starting to catch up with her. :)
Nick Kelly
Wes Clark could still secure America as a national security candidate.
Brilliant and beautiful. A dynamite combination. Good genes.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!
which is the only part I can claim credit for. Her mom gets the rest.
Nick Kelly
Wes Clark could still secure America as a national security candidate.
Good on her! You must have done something right to raise her to be so socially and politically conscious.
I love to do what you did- dinners with the in depth conversations that culminate with actual 'conversions'!! Such fun, isn't it? In 2004 I had a field day getting people to vote for Kerry. Seems like so much wasted energy now, in retrospect, but it was a good challenge. If he'd only had the votes counted like he promised... :(
I worked really hard for Kerry too, but I'm much more impressed with Hillary, so it's far easier for me to work hard for her.
Nick Kelly
Wes Clark could still secure America as a national security candidate.
Excellent reportage, MS, but, if ya don't mind, I would like your opinion on something that's been bothering me. You're in a big city; I'm in the sticks where the big news is another inch of snow tonight. I assume you have sources that aren't available to the rest of us.
I posted the following in a pretty much ignored blog
( http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/15237 - maybe it was too nasty) a couple days ago, and I was wondering if your finely tuned vibes perceive that this Hillary bashing is orchestrated by a "central" oppo committee or does it just happen on its own? Is it sort of like the republics, who seem to know instantly and instinctively what do so or say in order to launch their "swiftboating" comments or does someone actually mail out anti-Hillary talking points i.e. the Rove republics? These were used to say anything to put down an opponents point of view. Worked great.
I guess we could go on and on about this, but if the bashing from someone in the Obama camp is out there, why does the media feel it's their obligation to promote it?
Finally, shouldn't Hillary get her own "talking points" out there, or are they ignored, as well as most anything she says?
P.S. If anyone else has any thoughts/proof/comments on this I'd like to read them.
"The problem with Obama getting away with all this underhanded stuff, including, but not limited to, lying, hypocrisy, and cheating, is that he thinks he is immune from being held accountable. And he's right; most, if not all of what he's doing is blithely ignored by the press, ignored by his followers, and ignored by many of the rest of us. This is precisely what happened with GW Chimpy and his Merry Gang of Thieves; they can and did do any damn thing they wanted to, including rape of our constitution, stealing the treasury blind, turning the Justice Dept. into their private Posse Comitatus, and killing thousands of innocent people in a foreign invasion - and they're going to get away with it.
"He couldn't even Hope to Change a tire by himself."
and I actually have several possible answers but they're all theoretical. The Clinton bash fest is a truly interesting phenomena were we not having to live it day in day out as supporters! If I were an anthropologist or social scientist from the year 2107 I might find it more enthralling...
It's a potent mixture of things. I think the $60 million spent to try to bring Bill down laid a permanent dent in many people's lizard brains that just won't wash out. One that can be easily re-triggered to go into effect at the slightest provocation. So you start with a fertile hating ground right there. Seed planting is easy after that.
Then you have this new Thru the Looking Glass UNITY movement (cough cough... danged flu...) led by this "new politics" UNITER guy that shows up and - zip, bang! All of a sudden, everything starts DIVIDING! Go figure!
There is probably a good analogy in physics - maybe astrophysics, those planets with the highly eliptical orbits come to mind. I mean, these times seem to call for the extremes. As a response to the 8 yrs of shock and awe we all suffered (see Naomi Klein)... So you have a battle weary nation and an abused half of the electorate seeking salvation- any salvation- wherever they might find it. Whoever has the right voice tone or best tag line. Beggars can't be... well, you know. Hosanna.
Then, because of that extreme - the seeking of the transcendant 'higher'- you have the other polarity swinging around in orbit right along with it .... the need to release the pent up hate fumes from the past 8 yrs that couldn't wouldn't get full expression, so they're stale and even more volatile, to the point of violence.
I am feeling like we'll see some street rioting this election season. The energy out there is hostile and unstable so... unpredictable.
Now that's probably not the answer you were looking for! I went off on a tangent, but it's really a fascinating and complex issue I think.
If you believe in reincarnation.... Bill and Hillary will be treated with sublime respect and admiration in their next lives! :) They are paying some major dues to some very dark people... Gingrich, Rove and the lot -- they're just wonky older Freepers with higher salaries.
these people sit around a table and plan this stuff? Seems like so much could go wrong. Or does the bashing just spring up on its own and gather its own life and momentum? (Sort of like was 911 a US plot? - well no one could keep a secret that long. By now they'd be inteviewed on every known cable "news" program.)
"He couldn't even Hope to Change a tire by himself, much less the country."
of the Clinton bashing (not all, but "much") was planned long ago. The infiltration of the blogs. The MSM themes to hit.
Yeah, I do.
I have studied Karl Rove long enough to believe that anything that could help bring about an election win -is good enough for him.
If it didn't have such dire political implications, it is a really amusing phenomenon to watch. Somehow in the physics or mechanics of the neuronal connections, the converts to the Unity candidate appear to have a certain insecurity about their decision that they need to compensate for with aggression. I guess it comes from the adherence to the a savior being a highly emotional decision. Almost as a pre-emptive strike against logic, they seem to be constantly armed with anti-Clintonian memes. Even more amusing is that a lot of these people used to admire the Clintons and the 90s, but somehow that has changed. They pick the nuttiest ammunition from the vast arsenal of propaganda readily provided by the Republican Rove machine. I have heard things like: "but she is the establishment!", or "I would not want to have Bill Clinton running around the White House again". And these are progressive committed democrats! From your great FHA, it sounds like General Clark is pondering these same questions.
I desperately needed to "hear from" the General about CCN. I have wished that he would again join us here for a line or two, but this will do.
Thank you. THANK YOU!
Now stop your cryin'!!
I know what you mean though- a little General blogging would be very helpful about now...
Meantime, I've got my handy recorder and notepad ever ready to pack up at a moment's notice! :)
What stood out for me were a couple of things. First, how once again General Clark says things politicians on either side of the aisle are afraid to acknowledge. You won't here this kind of "straight talk" from either side of the aisle:
3) He then postulates the hypothetical - “What if somehow they sneak this thing through? And suddenly, Boom! There’s a nuke! Now what? What would it take to live with this? What do we do?”
****
There’s nothing more difficult than a military withdrawal.
It’s going to be ugly and difficult. There’s no putting colored paper over it… This is going to be a Very. Tough. Challenge….
Every argument is going to weigh against withdrawing those forces. The argument of Al Qaeda coming back. The argument that the Iranians will come in. The argument that it will undercut the security in Israel. The argument that it will undercut US prestige. The argument that, just as when Israel withdrew from south Lebanon, Al Qaeda said, “We ran you out!” – I’m sure there’ll be an Al Qaeda website, or maybe a thousand of them, that says; “We ran you out of Iraq! You wouldn’t stay!” But, you know… that’s not in itself the right reason to stay. What we’ve got to have is smart enough policy to deal with the real risks that are a threat to the United States in an effective manner.
****
I also appreciate the clarification that he never said or meant to imply Senator Obama would be unfit to be Commander in Chief. His words were twisted as always happens in politics. I appreciate the strong clarification to set the record straight once and for all on that issue.
on the Raw Story story himself. Nobody likes their words taken out of context and misinterpreted. And Wes is just not the kind to go about being reckless or careless about these things.
I agree with the passages that stood out for you... me too.
The Iraq withdrawal itself is something that almost NO ONE really details. It's just a discussion about timelines and dates but the logistical nightmare is something Wes would be uniquely qualified to talk about and something the American people had better start hearing about relatively soon so they can be prepared, as much as is possible.
Wes will have to be instrumental in this effort when it happen-- I hope... Can't imagine anyone better to see to the welfare of the troops during such a high risk maneuvering.
I mean- just be sure to say it's from a Clark blogger who spoke with Clark on Mar 14 (was it the 14th? - see Part 1!) :)
I don't want anyone to run with it as if Wes did some interview with the press to clarify or defend himself on the story. It was just he and I in a little chat after a conference .... on Rogue States! Heh.
Go for it.
Of course I'll explain.
Can you drag out the 'evidence' as to the interview, so I can fully explain?
this is from that very sad diary at Kos.... an eye opener but really a heartbreaker too to see what mob rule can do - even to someone like General Clark...
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/3/8/15340/15376/47#c47
Everything should be there as well as the MP3 link to the ACTUAL words spoken. "Journalist" Nick Juliano from Raw Story was crafty enough to only put ONE WORD of what Gen Clark said in quotations and then just fabricate the rest from his in depth investigative between the lines card tricks. Travesty and a sorry excuse for a journalist.
of the tactics of many of our so-called journalists. See this new blog: http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/15256
about a journalist's view about his fellow compatriots. It ain't pretty.
"He couldn't even Hope to Change a tire by himself."
I'm in FL with folks, trying to help them out, but just discovered free wifi at their place. SOOOO I hope I can take some time on 'work,' as my mother calls this!
Don't know whether has been done or not, but I fully intend to inform RAW of the damage they've done with this.
On the other hand (fortunately there is one,) I think what Larisa has done with Siegelman (and now following with election fraud) is heroic.
Love to you!
I just sent WesPAC $100 so Wes can keep going around the country to campaign for people running for office at all levels. I put it toward the W tax rebate check, tab. It is money well spent to stimulate the economy for getting Wes where he needs to go and those cheeto fixes.
Four stars for you, ms, for this fabulous report, with so much of Wes's personality, wisdom, forthrightness, and determination showing forth like the sun! Thank you for being there, and having the fortitude to write this up!!
Makes me want to put my fighting boots (no, "persuasion" boots), back on and sally forth into blogland. I haven't done much of that, but supplying the facts at the appropriate moment can be helpful to SOME people. Others are just hopeless.
I've ever read here... period. Just fabulous, ms.
Wes Clark Democrats...let the Clinton campaign know who sent you
It's always a pleasure to read your blogs, but this one is even better than usual. Thank you for that incredibly labor of love.
Yes, General, I too will keep fighting - by being unreservedly nice to the Obama supporters in my area, but by quietly pushing Hillary. By sending $$$ to her campaign. And by (finally) finishing my "Other Prophetic Candidate" blog and getting it posted this weekend.
ms.
I've often wondered if someone...anyone....at these discussions points out to the PNACer or AEI representative that their policy is what "we" have been doing for the past 8 years....and what a failure it has been. I'm certainly glad Mr. McManus did. Do you think the audience got that? Do you think they got the fact that what Ms. Pletka was selling is what got us in the mess "we" are in? I guess I'd like to ask the audience (i.e., the American people), "How do you like it so far?"
I know. There I go again.....with the "if you don't know WHY we're in the mess we're in....and how we got here....you can't know WHO and WHAT we need to fix it". Broken record. ;)
As far as Wes and following his orders to fight for Hillary. I trusted Wes when he told us we couldn't just "get out now" from Iraq (as he has stated the reasons here many times before)....as hard as it was and with someone precious at stake in the whole debacle. I couldn't trust him any less now. I feel the same as when he said "Another four years of this administration WOULD be grave" when he was campaigning for Kerry in 04. I get the same urgency from him regarding the importance of nominating Hillary. So....he must be assured...those of us who have put our trust in him are doing everything we can to fight for Hillary....and will continue to do so. :)
Thank you for this wonderful report, ms. You are a treasure to this community.
First of all, for all the meat of the conference,
and I loved your "asides." Heh
And secondly for bringing us Wes's plea to
"keep fighting." Just when it's getting harder
and harder to keep up my spirits, Wes speaks
through you. A wonderful report, as always.
That was great from Dr. Miles Kahler, laughing but so true.
I loved how Gen. Clark handled Danielle Pletka :-D.
I think that with the right guidance from the top (may I include, the same wrong guidance that led to 9-11 not because they weren’t aware or warned of the attack but the reason behind it was due to self interest group?)….
YES SIR, GEN. CLARK AND YES MAM, CAPT. MS IN LA. I mean, I will definitely try my best to fight wherever it’s appropriate.
Thanks, ms in la for sharing part two. And I am glad you have the courage and intellect to speak with Gen. Clark. Wow there most be a strong reason if he came to you three times to express his concern and to be at his side.
and Good Luck!
Another 2 AM drive by blogging. :)