A Little Academic Excercise:The "So - Who's Up For Starting a New Party" Thread
Submitted by kaflinn on May 14, 2008 - 11:15pm.
Here's the exchange that started this, below. Keep in mind - this is just an, er, excercise, since this is Wes Clark's site and devoted to helping Dems get elected.
So...
Given what you all know now, about how the parties work - and fail to work - how would you set it up? Who is welcome? Who isn't (and don't just say "Republicans")?, What are the non-negotiable planks that must be supported? What are the values on which you'll base it? Think like you're writing a constitution. How would you vet potential candidates? Or would you? How would you recruit members? How would you set up the party structure? How would primaries work? How would you fund it?
Holy schnikesSubmitted by madspawn on May 14, 2008 - 5:13pm.
What a jackass.
The Dem party really is leaving me.
Wes Clark Democrats...let the Clinton campaign know who sent you
So - who's up for starting a new Party? ;-)Submitted by kaflinn on May 14, 2008 - 10:49pm.
Strike while the iron is hot, pick a name (I'd guess: "Progressive Party"). How about The "30/50 Party"? Oh wait - that might confuse the Obama wing of the Dem party - they're so well educated they might think its a math club.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
I'm game!Submitted by madspawn on May 14, 2008 - 10:57pm.
Progressive Party sounds good, unless someone has a better suggestion!
Wes Clark Democrats...let the Clinton campaign know who sent you
I was only half kidding you realize.Submitted by kaflinn on May 14, 2008 - 11:00pm.
I'm always up for a little rebellion - it's in the genes.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
were so fired up about pulling together a truly progessive part of the Dem party? This was a direct effect of so many using the internet in new ways to organize, during 2003 and 2004, from the Draft Clark groups to Dean's online legions.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
political parties, but I'm good at planning parties. I could plan parties for parties.
First off, I don't think the term "Party" applies by any stretch of the imagination to what's involved. Unless, a party, by definition, is one of those horrible events that you don't want to attend but are bound by the specter of your Mother's impending and relentless guilt trip, floating over your head like a giant shoe, should you decide to not show up at this Very Important Event. And when you get there, your Aunt's all say very inappropriate things to you and cackle alot, there's that one Uncle that leers at you the whole time and keeps touching you every time he gets within striking distance, your teenage cousins break into the basement liquor cabinet and this sets off an entire hour of shouting...wait, that's just me. Never mind. I have to attend a family wedding this weekend; I must be projecting again. Where was I?
Right. Party as a title of description. I prefer...wait for it...ready? Oh, you're gonna love this.
Convergence.
Ooooh! Am I right? Am I right? Awesome, no? Say it with me.
Convergence. Like, The Progressive Convergence. Ooooh.
Oh! Oh! Here:
The Progressive Convergence: Sanity for a Secure America
Oh, damn. I just swooned a little.
The PC! Oooh. I just caught that. An entire political convergence known as "The PC." Oh gawd. My toes are wiggling.
(OK, so I'm all about branding. Gimme a break. I happen to be pretty good at it. It's early, and I had a long night of discomfort.)
Did you get any sleep last night??
So...your toes are wiggling...but are you getting that tingling feeling going up your leg? That *is* the feeling that Chris Matthews gets, right?
Actually, I rather like the sound of the "political convergence party"...the PCP, if you will.
it only means my sciatica is acting up again. It's not a good feeling. Maybe Tweety actually has sciatica. He should see a doctor, and maybe get his lard bottom up out of that pundit throne once in awhile.
I'm trying to think of a name that would appeal to the working class and other groups that will be expelled from the Dems if BO is the nominee. We don't want anything that sounds too socialistic, so we can't put "workers", "people's" or "labor" in the title. (My socialist husband suggested Peasants' Party. Riiiight!) I love the title "American Party", but that's taken. There was a Liberty Party before the Civil War, but it would probably be confused with the Libertarians.
What about the Jacksonian Party? (We could disown the Trail of Tears, I guess.)
My first order of business would be to establish closed primaries as the only way our candidate would be chosen, and the overall popular vote would determine the ultimate winner. I'll have to think about the rest of the constitution.
Something around which we might coalesce.
I haven't a single idea beyond that.
It's the average Joes & Marys that are getting screwed.
I think they've already got a party.
And anyway, I'm referring to it as a convergence, and not a party. Cause there's very little about any politics that makes me go, "Wheee! Crank up the jams!"
Now, if we must stick with party, I'd prefer something like, "Hoots and Nannys Party." Heh. Coots and Nannies? Oh dear. Time for me to go away for a bit, I've gone too far.
No reason this shouldn't be enjoyable, right? OMG - enjoyable political discourse and participation. What a freakin' concept!
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
about enjoyable. Hell, downright fun. It'd be The Progressive Convergence Free Beer and Plenty of It Dance Party!
I think we're onto something. We could have Astonishing Hot Dog BBQ meetups in the summer, and Sweaters for Cold Campaigner drives in the winter. ;-)
Among other things, we could spend our time actually doing stuff rather than talking about doing stuff. Like, build playgrounds, meet at Habitat builds, take seminars with Heifer International as a group, have old time sock hops to raise money for all the weather ravaged folks around the country, have a monthly harmonic convergence with ourselves at regional destinations via satellite link-ups, and dare I say, start putting our collective heads together to start working our legislative branch with legislative ideas and election reform proposals for the future...not to mention getting behind Hillary Clintons Healthcare Reform and Green Jobs/Energy Independence and Wes Clarks sane foreign policy ideas, and working like hell to get the Congress Critters to listen!
Shoot, we could do that right now.
Never mind, it's obvious I don't know what the heck one does to actually create a new political 'party.'
But I'm all enthusiastic. At least I've got that.
As in 'middle class' and issues 'central' to our lives?
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
As soon as you create it we will come! I am so ready for a third party!
Yes, this is not the party I joined up with a great many years ago. It was difficult to break away from my all-Republican family, but back then the Dems stood for my values. They no longer do. I won't go back to the Republicans, so I am looking for a new place to be for sure!
given that we are all likely to end up working "uniquely American" three jobs at a time in the near future... (some of us already do!) -- as we stare down the barrel of a second Great Depression--
How about the
United Serfs of America party?
USA
Heh.
You know by now I have this innate and increasing serf-o-phobia, living under bush reign for 8 yrs can do that to a girl. How 'bout Serf Elitists? ;)
It's a tough call to come up with some moniker that hasn't already been used and therefore stuck with all sorts of connotations that don't apply. It's that Sprachnot thing again.... the ruination of language. Such as we have seen in an extreme during Bush Reign.
So what's left. Most of the good words have been impossibly corrupted. Freedom, Constitution, People's, Labor, Workers, Liberal... Even "New" now has an 'old' worn out sound to it ... (thank you Barack Obama).
I tend towards ideas of Restoration--thinking of original founding concepts and documents... and a harkening back to the last time we really needed (and got) a New Deal. We need a New New Deal.
So.... in summary-- I haven't a clue! :D
But it's fun to fantasize about. I would venture there are more than a handful of Republicans thinking the same thing lately. Wouldn't it be interesting if we could find a place where all of the disenfranchised could unite? Because as the corporate Repubs and the Vichy Dems come closer and closer to pacting a merger.... it leaves all the worker bees on the outside looking in asking... Huh? How'd this happen? What about me? Where do I fit in this picture?
And if you don't have secret slush funds hidden away in the Caymans.... you probably don't fit in.
Anyone who's been following the Bilderberg conferences is not surprised. The Single Party theory was birthed there nearly a decade ago... And whatever Bergers want-- Bergers get.
How about the Unity Party? Hahahaha~ We could resurrect the old Revolutionary flag "Join or Die" featured in the John Adams series.
Or simply... "The American Party" -- let 'em guess what it means!
I am out of ideas.
I wonder what Wes would think of a third party? ....
consider running as a third party/Independant candidate), that we've really only got a two-party system.
He's right to a large degree, especially if there isn't sufficient dis-satisaction and disenfranchisement with one or both main parties to cause the creation of a well thought out and put together alternative vs. a knee-jerk reaction to temporary anger.
We can't make a new one up in a day, or a year, and then try to field a presidential candidate in the first year. Have to start slow, build up from the state level, to congress, and so on. How many members of Congress are neither Dem nor Republican right now? Yep.
Then again - it also depends a bit on how many sitting politicians and influentials end up dis-satisfied and disenfranchised when this nomination is decided ;-)
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
and a variation could be Reclaim. Or - Reclaimers. Or. Restorers Party. Reclamation sounds a little too much like waste-water treatment (though that's oddly appropriate in some ways)
just for info's sake:
Main Entry: re·claim
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈklām\
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English reclamen, from Anglo-French reclamer, from Latin reclamare to cry out, protest, from re- + clamare to cry out — more at claim
Date: 14th century
1 a: to recall from wrong or improper conduct : reform b: tame, subdue
2 a: to rescue from an undesirable state; also : to restore to a previous natural state b: to make available for human use by changing natural conditions
3: to obtain from a waste product or by-product : recover
4 a: to demand or obtain the return of b: to regain possession of
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
I'm for the greatest level of inclusion possible. If the person shares the values and ideals and ideas, they're in. And kids of all ages are a must. If schools won't teach civics, we can. And maybe some manners too.
And none of this - we'll he's not a real ________. He only joined an hour ago. He only joined so he could run for president.
(Hey...can I do the website? Pleeeaaaassse... I'll need and want help there though. As soon as we pick a name, I'll go register it. That way - when they come to arrest us for sedition, they'll only find one of us, and I won't talk. Oooo...I could do the private registration thingey and then they'd be screwed.)
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
In my book an elite is someone who thinks they are above/better than the rest. We have enough of that now in both parties
serious & frivolous (The National Barking Spider party is my favorite name!)...for more ideas ;-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States#Other_lists
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
(so long as it doesn't impinge anyone else's rights to the same thing)
- National Security/Foreign policy ala Wes Clark
- Public service is a responsibility of citizenship - civilian service or military - 2 years
- Minimum wage - pegged to local economies initially, then phased up over say, ten years, to a living wage?
- Environmental responsiblity
- Fiscal responsibility (the Administration has to end its term on a balanced budget)
- Election Reform (incl. mandatory public financing for all elections)
- Re-vamp FCC laws to break up media conglomerates that exhibit, or are likely to exhibit based on share of market, undue political influence
- Support of the Fairness Doctrine
- HRC's Green jobs program and policy
- Education system reform
- Tax system reform
- Open borders (make it easier for people to come in legally by applying and funding the laws already in existence, and maybe include some measures so that, at least in some instances, one must be sponsored or be able to be self-sufficient ala Australia and new Zealand. Give greater incentives to those who want to start businesses here and employ people here)
- No discrimination based on any racial, sexual, religious, ethnic, economic, educational, age, whatever criteria
- Equal wages for equal work. Period.
- Right to choose (but also right of parents to at least know if their minor child is terminating a pregnancy. They have no rights to stop it though, against her will.)
- Support 2nd amendment - except automatic weapons
- Governmental Transparency (how about something like requiring the Spreakers of the House and Senate, along with the President, to do a monthly TV broadcast - on all major stations, cable and otherwise, detailing what they did or didn't accomplish the previous month? Man that'd make their lives hell, but make them accountable too)
- Veterans - fully funding the VA, and support of the G.I. Bill for 21st Century
just a start of suggestions...you know...to get the conversation rolling...;-)
EDIT: Damn! Forgot Universal Healthcare system that works. Duh!
EDIT #2: And no damn caucuses. Primaries only - and we do them all on the same day, so all the voters vote based on the same info. Candidates get 6 months to make their cases.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
but especially these 3
Universal Healthcare system that works.
And no damn caucuses. Primaries only - and we do them all on the same day, so all the voters vote based on the same info. Candidates get 6 months to make their cases.
Right to choose (but also right of parents to at least know if their minor child is terminating a pregnancy. They have no rights to stop it though, against her will.)
As a Mother this is something that has always bothered me. If something went wrong would that girl ask for help? There are some girls who for whatever reason can't/won't go to their parents. Yet parents are responsible for whatever wrong that child does until they are of age.
I'm very lucky that my kids knew they can come to us with anything even when if we don't agree with them.
who had abortions. Most were absolutely terrified of telling their parents, for all the normal reasons; especially fear of disappointing them/losing their love and respect, fear of getting in trouble/grounded for life, fear of being thrown out on the street, but those who didn't and had the abortions, also had serious issues with guilt over not telling them. Eventually, within a few years, all of them did tell at least their moms, and discovered how unfounded those fears mostly were.
You're right that parents are responsible for their underage children, but that child is also responsible for the product of that pregnancy, whether in keeping and raising it, terminating it or giving it up for adoption. So - it's hard all the way around, and when your daughter becomes pregnant underage is not the time to abandon her to 'solve it on her own' with people she doesn't know in some clinic somewhere.
I don't know - maybe a cooling off period of a couple of days would help. As in - make the appointment for the procedure, go in for the examination and notification of parents/guardians, then have a mandatory two day wait and session with a mediator/conselor to make sure it's really what she wants and that she understand the ramifications and options - but the mediator is there to keep anyone from pressuring her one way or the other?
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
Personally I do not like abortion but then who does? We knew a girl who had 3 abortions instead of using some type of birth control.
My husband would push for abortion and go looking for the guy. Me on the other hand after my initial reaction oh chit would ask my daughter what they wanted to do. Probably all the time hoping oh goody another grandchild.But in the end it is her body her choice.
I like your idea of a cooling off period. It gives one time to think after the shock wears off
to a lie detector or something
Governmental Transparency (how about something like requiring the Spreakers of the House and Senate, along with the President, to do a monthly TV broadcast - on all major stations, cable and otherwise, detailing what they did or didn't accomplish the previous month? Man that'd make their lives hell, but make them accountable too
to maximize the chance the greatest number of people would see it. Could even go one step further and make it required viewing in all middle and high schools. Hey! Cheap civics! Who knew?
Would be even better if it could be interactive in some way - people could ask realtime questions.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
;-)
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
Re-vamp FCC laws to break up media conglomerates that exhibit, or are likely to exhibit based on share of market, undue political influence
YES
Support of the Fairness Doctrine
BIG TIME YES
HRC's Green jobs program and policy
Love this one but have to somehow make it afordable
Education system reform
Please no school vouchers. Make the public school system really work. Too many can not afford private schools.
Fiscal responsibility (the Administration has to end its term on a balanced budget)
Tell them to talk to President Clinton :)
HRC's Green jobs program and policy
Love this one but have to somehow make it afordable
Education system reform
Please no school vouchers. Make the public school system really work. Too many can not afford private schools
What pisses me off is that neither of these is that hard to accomplish.
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
I'm dangerous and power mad.
So - how would presidential candidtes of this theoretical party win the nomination?
We could do popular vote, but that isn't necessarily representative of the whole country, and smacks of mob rule.
We could do delegates (God, please, no. Haven't we learned anything, lol?)?
We could base the majority vote on a per state basis, and include D.C., Puerto Rico, American Samoa, U.S. Virgin Islands, and voters abroad, so there would be an odd umber of contests? Whoever wins the most individual contests wins the nomination?
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
We would select our candidates the same way they do it now - by whoever can raise the most money. However, don't fret, you can be the first nominee.
However, I would do it slightly different; when a person casts a vote for a potential candidate, they also add cash intended for that candidate. MasterCharge and Visa also accepted under limited circumstances. The one with the most $$ wins. No limit on the amount anyone can donate. Leftover money would go to reduce income taxes - and get rid of the IRS.
We're electing the President of the United States, not some g.d. prom king.
Everyone has a voice and no one/no group of people has undue influence.
"It takes two to speak the truth - one to speak and one to hear." - Henry David Thoreau
Mandatory testing for all wannabe candidates.
SAT's - the upgraded kind! They MUST be able to point out foreign countries and their leaders. History, English, the Arts, Philosophy, Languages, Math, Sciences... test it all!
Only Renaissance Leaders need apply (see this way it weights the odds very heavily in a certain General's favor and more importantly nips in the bud ever having to suffer through another disaster like the one we are currently enduring)
No more illiterates.
Reading comprehension, yes. Book lists and quizzes. Oh why not throw in a substance test-- make sure they are not abusing alcohol or drugs. I personally don't care about their sex lives. But let's seek out competence in leadership.
Foreign policy creds can NOT be based on having lived overseas a few yrs as a child! Will not do.
Every candidate should have lived in New York City for at least one year of their lives to be up close and familiar with the best and the worst of America.
OK - just popping in from work catch up but I wanted to make sure our new party is PICKY and CHOOSY about our candidates in the RIGHT way!
No more LOSERS running for the highest office in the land. Stop them at the pass. They never make it to the run offs... Let them keep on running as Democrats.... the OLD party!
Bye now. ;)
Naomi Klein's 2 books, specially The Shock Doctrine.
We're electing the President of the United States, not some g.d. prom king.
salt of the earth in Ohio and Indiana, I think that living amongst these people would be better exposure to real life than living in NYC.
In the small town where I am spending the evening, there are 2 payday lenders on one small strip of road. And the TV commercials are incredible. A local news station is reporting on the attempt by the state government to limit the interest charged to 28% instead of 391% which is apparently being charged by some companies...
In my 3rd party - everyone who wants to defeat John McCain and the Republican party is welcome.
"It takes two to speak the truth - one to speak and one to hear." - Henry David Thoreau
and 6 mos in a "small town" ... with John Cougar Mellencamp... or something.
How's that?
We're all about options here. :)
Actually some time living overseas is also good. That was ONE of the things I DID like about Obama. Not that I regard it as the backbone of foreign policy creds but....
in every election, for every office.
maybe we can have Price Waterhouse count 'em, lol!
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
may ask or receive endorsements from active or past political personages. Smacks too much of pandering for favors. And, no candidate can receive the health benefits of the presidency/senacy/houseofrepsacy until ALL citizens receive equal or better care. And those ridiculous retirements benefits would also have to go. We have truly allowed these guys to create their own little world of privilege and wealth. How did the French do it?
We're electing the President of the United States, not some g.d. prom king.
about all this - who is also ready for a new party, lol - Jodie Grossman. Some of you may know her. She'll be trying to find her account here any minute (or getting a new one) so she can join this little rebellion.
Anyway - what we were trying to work out was how to set up delegates - to make up both the party reps for voters, as well as how they would go about selecting the nominee.
We finally settled on the idea of suggesting to you using the same structure as congress; every state would elect one delegate per congressional district, plus one delegate per senator, thus making sure we cover the whole population nationally. They get elected to 6 year terms, so there's enough overlap between congressional and presidential election cycles to avoid scary learning curves - but they'd have to be staggered out in some way that makes sense, too.
How about instead of Chairperson, we have a tribunal? Or five person panel - like north, south, east, west, central?
So - for the presidential primary - the candidates would still be vying for delegates. But - the only delegates are the ones elected above - no Super delegates - so that's just under 600 or so, right?
So - the awarding of a delegate would be based on the popular vote of each congressional district in a state, + the two senate delegates would go to the candidate who won the popular vote in that state.
To win outright as the nominee, the candidate has to win 60% of all delegates.(kinda like that veto proof majority we never seem able to get!)
If no candidate gets the 60% then it goes to the convention. At the convention....
All delegates are free agents if there is no nominee yet. We have seven separate votes, and the winner is the best of seven. However, while the candidates get to make their case to the delegates openly (no backroom deals/private meetings), like an enormous publically televised town hall, all the votes are cast privately - just like we vote now. Voting booths - but with paper trails - so no delegate has to fear for reprisals because of their vote.
The congressional primaries would work the same way, but obviously on a smaller scale, relative to that state.
jump in to this and rip apart please!
Jodie & Kelly
"Our public servants work for us - we don't work for them. We have an obligation, as citizens of this country, to always remember that - and to never let them forget it." - DeadMessengers
It's so obvious that the Dem Party doesn't care about my demographic. Older southern WASP woman. Working class. (Apparently...I can't believe that includes anyone under 50K., I've never earned that much in my life, even though I was the Nursing Director at a Nursing Home, among other things.)
They lost the Reagan Dems and that led to 12 years of Repub rule, now they are throwing away the non-elitist,average joe types. And who cares about the women? Not the Dems. All we are good for is volunteering, running the day-to-day fundraisers, events, and all the other thankless jobs for the Dem Party. Women should go on strike. See how many Obots volunteer to do the everyday mundane tasks that boost the Dem Party. There won't be any.