Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:00:03 -0400
and I understand where of you speak. It's just that "man" doesn't operate that way and I'm afraid there will always be strife in this imperfect world of ours. No matter how hard a group such as the Buddhists may try, that's just the way it is.....always has been, always will be.
Of course, that doesn't mean that we should stop trying. ♥
The time for the WesPAC fundraiser will
expire at midnight, CDT. If you just got
back from a trip, or just now decided to
check CCN, or just were waiting until the
last minute, It's time!! This fund drive
was started by us, General Clark's bloggers,
especially to let him know how grateful we
are that he keeps on calling attention to
issues of national security and keeps on
talking truth to the untruthful media.
If you want to make a note of your donation,
visit this thread:
http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/15998
C'mon now, you know you can dig up something
for the good General. You'll get stars!!
We all know that times are hard, and we can only
do what we can do. I'm sure he could use about
a billion thanks right now, if you want to add
that to the thread.
"John McCain … has proven that he has been wrong about every judgment he's made about the war. Wrong about the Iraqis paying for the reconstruction, wrong about whether or not the oil would pay for it, wrong about Sunni and Shia violence through the years, wrong about the willingness of the Iraqis to stand up for themselves," Kerry, who supports Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, said on CBS' "Face the Nation."
"If you like the Bush tax cut and what it's done to our economy, making wealthier people wealthier and the average middle class struggle harder, then John McCain is going to give you a third term of George Bush and Karl Rove," the Massachusetts senator added, echoing an Obama campaign talking point.
Kerry later said the McCain of 2008 isn't the McCain he courted in 2004.
"John McCain has changed in profound and fundamental ways that I find personally really surprising, and frankly upsetting. It is not the John McCain as the senator who defined himself, quote, as a maverick, though questionable," Kerry said. "This is want-to-be president John McCain. The result is that John McCain has flip-flopped on more issues than I was even ever accused possibly of thinking about."
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/07/06/kerry-says-mccain-lacks-judgment/
Notice that Kerry didn't once mention anything about McCain's military service. I think that's the correct approach. If someone asks anything related to McCain's military record, the best response is something to the effect of "war hero, respect his service," FULL STOP. Do not answer questions related to how it prepares for the Presidency, etc. Simply respond to any reference to McCain's service in as few words as possible, and don't play into the media spin.
Clark got swiftboated, no doubt. But we can learn from that strategic error, and move forward more smartly. We can leave them with no opportunity, no opening, to swiftboat any Democrat no matter how they spin things.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Whoever said it, it's true.
That total jerk Obama threw him under the bus. It was a brilliant strategy, if only Obama had the balls to stand by it.
One cannot logically claim that Clark made an error without putting the error squarely at Obama's feet. Clark had been saying the same thing for months, perhaps years, about McCain, and yet Obama still was happy to be seen next to him and have Wes go out there for him. So, either Obama is STUPID or an ASS. Take your pick. There's no third choice.
Wes did nothing wrong. His only strategic error was thinking that Obama was worth his time, energy, and help.
We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.
Look, I've signed the petition, O.K.
Obama did not "throw Clark under the bus." These are all political statements, and both Clark and Obama understand that.
Unfortunately, it seems pretty clear to me that there was not enough communication between the campaign and Clark BEFORE he went on the air as what was perceived as an Obama surrogate.
Of course everything Clark said was correct, and I agree Obama responded more to the media spin of what Clark said than what Clark actually said. I'm simply talking about strategy going forward. There is no need to revisit the question posed by the interviewer to Clark, and no benefit from answering it directly...it will only lead to more distraction and not help the campaign.
We need to think strategically, this is politics.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Whoever said it, it's true.
What Wes Clark said was the truth. What
Barack Obama said was a "political statement,"
which said nothing except that he didn't think
the question of McCain's qualifications was
worth discussing. He ceded that point: McCain
is qualified because of his military service.
This is the very thing that Wes was refuting.
If you think that General Clark should have
made sure that he only discussed Obama's
"talking points," well, that's obviously what
he DIDN'T want to do. Wes wanted to talk
about what he knew, and he had no need to ask
Obama's permission.
And I sincerely doubt that there is a "strategy
going forward" that has anything to do with Wes,
not since Obama's campaign "disagreed" and
"disavowed" what Wes said.
The mistake that was made here was Obama's
failure to take advantage of a great opening
that Wes gave him.
I don't see why you found it necessary to vote me down instead of just engaging in a discussion. You would probably find we agree more than disagree on the issue in question.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Whoever said it, it's true.
It was an error on Obama's part. Clark didn't need a whole lot of back up, he was doing the heavy lifting for Obama. Obama could have partnered in "good cop"/"bad cop" with Clark, all he really had to do was act like he and Clark worked as partners on the same force. Obama could have had the softer voice and come out smelling like roses with McCain wounded and Clark still positioned to take the heat for him further down the road.
And with a little bit of Democratic teamwork we could have taken the media down a notch for pulling that type crap. It would have been so easy to score points against the media for how unfairly they played this one. All of the media watch dog groups spoke up about it.
Remember the stink Democrats made when a network tried to run a docudrama that had people like Madelein Albright refusing to attack Bin Ladin when she never did that? We beat them back because Bill Clinton spoke up and Democrats backed him, grassroots activists and elected Democrats.
Obama could have caught the media red handed on this one and blown their cover as well as McCain's. Now it looks like the media caught Obama red faced. It worked so well this time they will certainly keep playing this game as long as Obama keeps backing up.
as I said, I don't think there was enough communication between Clark and the Obama campaign re: political strategy before this all spun somewhat out of control.
I agree Obama didn't handle it well, but I think it was probably more a lack of communication problem than anything else. No campaign is run perfectly, and I reject the notion that Obama "threw Clark under the bus."
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Whoever said it, it's true.
that Obama threw Clark under the bus.
And the Democratic leadership ran for cover like the weenies they are.
THAT's what needs to change.
Obama didn't go so far as to throw Clark under the bus, but he hopped in that bus and drove away leaving Clark to fend with a mob of thugs on his own.
P.S. After Clark stepped forward in the first place to keep that mob from attacking Obama.
but as hard as it is for us, Clark's not the issue.
I'm sure Clark and Obama will be communicating further, so it's not as if the bus is gone for good; just hit a rough spot in the road?
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Whoever said it, it's true.
At least I don't think so. But this misplay makes McCain harder to stop than he had to be, and it reduced the effectiveness of one of the Democratic Party's leading voices, if not the leading voice, on national security matters. That's a lot of down side for playing it safe to avoid a possible injury in one fight.
My mind know's that Clark is not the issue. He is a soldier first and always. For him it is never about him. But I hate to see Democrats repeat Dukakis type mistakes. And my heart is screaming "Yes this damn well is about Clark!" And though my mind has the final say in determining who I vote for, my heart has a lot of influence in determining how hard I am willing to work for a candidate.
is that I want Wes Clark's voice on national security, the military and foreign policy to be heard and listened to in our national discourse. Our lousy media has been an obstacle, the weenie-ness of Democrats has been another obstacle, and now Obama the presumptive nominee and LEADER of the party has just thrown another huge block in the way. I'm not too happy with people who get in the way of what I feel is important.
Krugman is right. No matter who wins this election, it's Rove's third term. O is so busy moving to the right, there's really little difference between he and John McCain anymore. So much for hope and change.
"I stand behind Gen. Wesley Clark and agree that while my opponent's military record is indeed honorable and courageous, it does not in and of itself qualify him to be president of the United States or commander-in-chief. The right-wing's attempt to distort the General's very clear point is just another example of the Republican Party's desperate need, at any cost, to distract Americans from the harsh truths about the war, the economy and the fact that voters overwhelmingly are signaling they they want change in Washington come November." (from ms in la)
because he's not qualified to say that (he's never served) and it would simply have brought a world of unnecessary distraction and trouble to the campaign by keeping it the news cycle even longer than it was.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Whoever said it, it's true.
If that's how you feel, then tell me how the hell you think he's qualified to BE commander in chief. What do you think a President does, make speeches?
would be *unqualified* (politically) to go there.
That's the political reality, has nothing to do with the nominee's qualifications to be President. It's about not playing into their hands.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Whoever said it, it's true.
is that the President is the Commander in Chief of the military and by the nature of the office is indeed politically qualified to comment on matters of military service.
in the middle of a general election campaign for the Presidency. Not in 2008 when you are a Democrat, anyway.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Whoever said it, it's true.
Where's the new politics we've been promised? When do the Democrats stop ceding national security matters to the GOP?
Are you saying that the issue of CinC is not "political reality?" What does that mean? That it's a verboten subject?
But only "in 2008 when you are a Democrat..."
Because the Dems have failed again on nat'l security issues?
That doesn't even make sense.
What is your "political reality", anyway?
Did he try to "UN-swiftboat" Clark? IMO, Kerry owes Clark...BIG TIME!
Obama could have easily prevented the swiftboating of Clark. He could have said something similar to what Joe Sestak said. When Obama came out with his oh so tepid response, and praised McCain for being a war hero, but left out the fact that Wes shed blood for his country, he, in essence, gave approval for the swift-boating to begin.
I won't forgive his wussy self for that. He lost my vote.
Getting Obama in the White House is the issue. I'm sure Clark understands that and I hope he's not taking any of this personally.
I know it's hard to see the bigger picture when it involves someone we've all devoted so much dedication to over the years, but there is always a bigger picture.
I'm convinced it's just politics, not personal. I think Clark probably sees it that way as well, at least I hope so.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Whoever said it, it's true.
Obama threw Wes under the bus. We are focused on down ticket races here. Nobody wants to talk about your candidate or presidential politics. You've got the rest of the blogosphere to do that and coming here to banter just pisses the rest of us off at you and your candidate.
Let's follow his lead. Anything else is a disservice to this blog and to General Clark.
And as far as being personal (we are still talking about Obama and Clark, right?) I sincerely doubt it. They both understand the misunderstandings and unfortunate series of events that can sometimes happen in politics.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Whoever said it, it's true.
Clark is supporting Obama because he feels he will be a better President than McCain (hypothetically) would be. I see many here are in denial about that.
Cheers.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Whoever said it, it's true.
Before I knew I couldn't work to help Obama elected. With the way he's treated Wes, now I know I can't vote for him either.
"She hopes to open shadowed eyes on a different world...." Robert Smith, borrowed from Penelope Farmer
And I can't think why Obama would talk to
Clark again. He's done his best to discredit
Wes and to make it clear that statements
Wes makes on national security will not be
supported by the Obama campaign.
trying to make us think Kerry is brilliant isn't helping your guy at all. I'm not voting for him. I'll write in Wes Clark. Keep pissing people off here and lose more votes for your guy.
at their convention. If there's a difference in the positions of the Republicans and the Democrats come November given the rightward shift of O, it's going to be, because the conservatives are going to push to go even farther to the right.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/06/AR2008070602322.html?hpid=topnews
It said, "I've been tested and I've been tested!" (or words pretty close to those) and on the inside it said, "cholesterol, blood pressure...."
gonna lose the election based on the economy. If he sticks to this economic plan (clearly designed by Phil Gramm and the Mrs.) even people in his own party are going to think they've been smoking crack.
We live in the eternal Now, and it is Now that we create our destiny. It follows, that to grieve over the past is useless and to make plans for the future is a waste of time. There is only one ambition that is good, and that is: so to live Now that none may weary of life's emptiness and none have to do the task we leave undone.
In this sense we are our brothers keeper; that if we injure them we are responsible. Therefore, our duty is, so vigilantly to control ourselves that we may injure none; and for this there is no substitute; all other duties take a lower place and are dependent on it.
THE SAYINGS OF TSIANG SAMDUP