PUMA = Rethuglicans
Submitted by atdleft on August 25, 2008 - 4:20pm.
Alegre's Corner | Clintonistas for Obama | Darragh Murphy | Democrats | liar | Party Unity | PUMA | Rethuglican hacks | right-wing smears | riverdaughter | The Confluence | vast right-wing conspiracy | Will Bower | Clintonistas for Obama | Current Events | Democratic politics
(Proudly cross-posted at Clintonistas for Obama)
I know, I know. I probably shouldn't be talking about a sorry bunch of Rethuglican trolls... Except that they're now out to publicly smear Hillary Clinton's legacy and give Democrats a bad bname everywhere! These frauds must be exposed!
It's time for us to just say no deal to the PUMA liars once and for all!
I'm sure many of you have already seen this flaming pile of garbage...
And you're wondering just what the deal is with this person. And you may also be wondering why the "PUMA" crowd is cheering this new lie...
Well, here are the facts. First off, this supposed "martyr" Debra Bartoshevich has always been a McCain supporter. Despite her crocodile tears about being kickied out of the Democratic National Convention's Wisconsin Delegation because "she was a Hillary supporter", the truth is that she was removed because Democratic Party delegates do NOT support Republicans! She broke the rules, so the state Democratic Party replaced her with a true Hillary Clinton Democrat.
And now, Debra Bartoshevich is proving her Republican bona fides by lying in a national TV commercial for McCain. She refuses to mention McCain's embrace of all things Bush-Cheney. She doesn't mention how John McCain now stands for more wars, fewer protections for the middle class, more environmental destruction, fewer real energy solutions, more extreme-right judges "legislating from the bench", and fewer civil rights for all of us. Oh no, Ms. Bartoshevich refuses to tell the truth. She just lies for her beloved "Johnny Mac". And really, we're supposed to believe she's a Hillary Clinton Democrat?
Oh yes, and what about McCain's point about Barack Obama "snubbing" Hillary Clinton? Well, it simply isn't true! Don't believe me? Believe Hillary Clinton!
"Now, I understand that the McCain campaign is running ads trying to divide us," Clinton said. "And let me state what I think of those ads: I'm Hillary Clinton, and I do not approve that message."
"Let there be no mistake about it, We're united, and we're united for change. We are, after all, Democrats, so it may take (pause) a while. (Laughter). We're not the fall in line party. We're diverse. Many voices. But make no mistake, we are united. We are united on behalf of the Democratic Party values we hold dear."
Still don't believe me? Again, listen to Hillary.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. "PUMA" is nothing more than a Rethuglican front group! They want to sow anger and division among us Democrats, just so that John McCain wins this fall and their beloved GOP can have at least four more years to destory this nation some more.
I've had it with their lies. I've had it with their attacks on Democrats. Before the corporate media slavishly laps up the "PUMA" falsehoods any more, it's time they hear from us on what the truth really is.
During the Democratic Convention this week, we'll finally see the party unite to win this fall. Hillary Clinton will speak once more in support of Barack Obama. Barack Obama will show his support for what Hillary Clinton and all of her voters support. And once and for all, this false meme of "Democrats in disarray" can finally be disproven.
As a Hillary Clinton Democrat myself, I've had it with Rethuglican tools like Debra Bartoshevich, Darragh Murphy, Will Bower, the Alegre's Corner pack of turncoats, and Riverdaughter's den of liars. I've had it with the "PUMA" faux-movement, and I'm speaking up now to expose them for what they are!
You should be ashamed for posting this drivel. It's something equivalent to the Freeperville Loony Toons. In fact, it pisses me off so much, I'm going over to PUMAPAC and sign up right now. Everyone who does not support Obama is NOT a thug and certainly not a repuklican.
Hey McCain; we need Wes Clark as Secretary of State!.
Not unless he wants to count this almost 50 year old white bitter female as a Repuklican. Not! I have been a Democrat since I was old enough to vote. So he better rethink that. I don't cling to guns or religion though. Does that count?
Excuse me, but why should I be ashamed? Am I spreading lies about Democrats? Am I giving money to the GOP? Am I sowing division in the Democratic Party to help McBush win?
I'm speaking up now because I'm sick & tired of these "PUMA" phonies that claim to be "Democrats" while actively promoting Republicans. Why should I apologize for telling the truth about their astroturf faux-movement?
Help Clintonistas for Obama help Democrats win! :-)
are advocating voting for McCain, and would really question your statement that they are allied with the Republican party. Yes, they may be contributing to the image that the democratic party is divided and many do not want to see that. The major problem is that many democrats feel the Democratic party left them, regardless of PUMA, Republicans, images or whatever.
...many democrats feel the Democratic party left them...
I understand the sentiment, but the end result is the same.
my friend...or is that a puma's lair?
Good on ya'. But prepare yourself for some really ugly stuff.
Worry not though, the puma pride makes much noise but has few teeth or claws.
My suggestion?
Sit back and watch the shit fly. And laugh. ;)
Guess a person shouldn't recommend laughing here any more.
So much for diversity of opinion being "welcomed" on Wes Clark's board.
Have a pleasant evening old friend. :)
that every time someone walks in here and throws a molotov cocktail, you're the first to stand up and cheer? What the hell is wrong with some of you people? Every time somebody has a prickly feeling, you have a compulsion to turn it into a full blown flame war. Vindictiveness isn't pretty.
I rated no one down. I recommended that he laugh what was to come off...for this my old friend Jen felt the need to zero rate my post. hf jai zero rates most anything I post so that's not surprising, but I didn't expect it from Jen.
Someone "walked in here" and expressed their feelings...geeze bad form entirely.
And you need to back off mommy hen. There are a whole lot of chicks here that could stand your "parenting skills", so spread the "love" around a bit, lest they start thinking I'm your favorite.
Words aren't bombs Susan. You, of all people should recognize that.
It's not like Clarkies haven't heard words of criticism aimed at them before. Especially not the last few months.
Hence my recommendation that the diarist should laugh things off. Something that you might try instead of accusing me of trying to "start" something.
Laughter is, after all, good for the soul...or so they say.
Feel free to go somewhere and have yourself a good laugh. Then, with any luck, maybe you won't feel the need to keep lashing out at people here whom you apparently perceive to be in the enemy camp.
And just who are "some members of the community" that atdleft threw this verbal bomb at? I saw a number of names in his blog but can't say I saw a one that is a poster here.
I agree with his over-all assessment of PUMA and their ilk, so yeah I recommended his blog...sue me.
And no dear, I'm not going anywhere...there's plenty to laugh at here.
And now, I'm done with this asnine back and forth with you. I would appreciate your decision to do the same.
See Susan, if you're still here...I told you this is the place to be for belly laughs.
Bwaahaahaahaa!
Needs to be taken back from the people who are using it to attack the Democratic party and the Democratic ticket.
We all believe that "dissent is patriotic" but most of us also believe that we need to protect this country and get it back on track.
If you are pushing mccain and attacking Obama, then you are not working to bring "more and better Democrats" into office.
I would LOVE to see what Wes Clark has to say about how this site is being used by some to attack fellow democrats.
There are times, just as in war, when dissent has to give over to taking action and getting positive results. You can not dissent IN battle, we are IN A Battle to save and fix this country.
Barack Obama and Joe Biden 08
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"
It's funny how a lot of Obama followers are authoritarians....just like the Republicans are.
Why have Obama and the New Democratic Party chose to rehabilitate the Republican Party at a time when it and conservatism has proven to be such a failure? Answer: "Because that's where the money is."
You are acting foolish.
YOU Know I am a Wes Clark supporter! You should know I am a Hillary Clinton supporter.
Yes, I am an Obama supporter because he is far far far superior to anything the rethugs can dream up.
Your BS tag line about Obama and the Democratic party "rehabilitating" the rethug party is LAUGHABLE!
Obama is not a true progressive, both he and Hillary are to corporate friendly for me and in some ways, so is Wes Clark. BUT... they are all FAR Superior to any rethug!
Barack Obama and Joe Biden 08
...someone who calls for post partisanship.....in other words no partisanship...... and spent the primaries praising republicans and slamming Dems?
Why have Obama and the New Democratic Party chose to rehabilitate the Republican Party at a time when it and conservatism has proven to be such a failure? Answer: "Because that's where the money is."
...all you like, but it's the reason O is getting no traction right now. You can't spend the primaries praising Republicans and start the GE by sucking up to them.....see pandering to anti choice evangelicals and making your convention all about "faith"...... and then try to run against them.
Politics 101 is campaigning on contrasts NOT similarities
Why have Obama and the New Democratic Party chose to rehabilitate the Republican Party at a time when it and conservatism has proven to be such a failure? Answer: "Because that's where the money is."
Please use reality.
He DID Not spend the entire primary praising rethugs. That is a LIE.
He is not sucking up to rethugs now either. This is another Lie.
Pandering to evagelicals? Making the convention about faith?
What reality are you living in?
I want to ask you right now. WHO are you voting for in the GE?
If it is mccain, then all you say is BS.
If it is a write in (such as Hillary or Wes) then you just gave a half vote to mccain.
If it is not voting then you also gave a half vote to mccain.
If it is Obama... well then I would have to say that you really do care about this country.
Barack Obama and Joe Biden 08
Is this some kind of threat to go tattle, " would LOVE to see what Wes Clark has to say about how this site is being used by some to attack fellow democrats."
Do it, go right ahead.
P.S. http://www.obamaclark.com/
Oh yeah, this too:
(100 Reasons qhy Wes Clark should Have Been Obama's VP, or as another from CCN said, our NOMINEE)
http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/16364
"Just so we're reminded of the ones who are held back, up front there ought to be a Man In Black."
-Johnny Cash
I'd say that is the purpose of this
particular blog.
Donna Brazille tried to throw us out of
the party, but the party ended up becoming
"Republican Lite." I'm still a Progressive
Democrat, so where's my party?
As for Wes's opinion, he didn't shut us
down no matter what we said about John Kerry.
Why are some Clark bloggers getting
so upset when Obama is criticized? Is his
leadership so fragile that he can't take
criticism? I truly don't understand why
it is such a sacrilege to point out his
failings. Is it that there is no defense?
So you are saying I am part of a cult?
If so, you obviously know NOTHING about me.
The only cult I am seeing is the cult of puma and the cult of half truths and lies. This is being perpetrated by SOME that are so upset that they would rather see this country hurt MORE then to support someone who beat their candidate.
Barack Obama and Joe Biden 08
...for willful lies and innuendo.
Please do not question the patriotism of other people here.
As you said, you have been here since the beginning. You should know better.
Why have Obama and the New Democratic Party chose to rehabilitate the Republican Party at a time when it and conservatism has proven to be such a failure? Answer: "Because that's where the money is."
I was here almost everyday back in 2003/04 and beyond. It NEVER got this bad in regards to John Kerry. NEVER.
Barack Obama and Joe Biden 08
People who criticized Kerry were not attacked
personally for doing so. There were not whole
blogs written for no other purpose than to
accuse fellow Democrats of being un-Democratic
(and worse) for not liking what Kerry did or
said or how he acted. So, no, some Clarkies
did not get vilified by others for disliking
John Kerry.
Up to now, your proselytizing has been tolerated as youthful enthusiasm. But lying about those who don't agree with you gets you no points on this blog (except for the obligatory recs you will get from the resident Obama-bots).
I've provided the facts (check out the links!) to back up my claims. How can you call me a liar? And do you really think Gen. Wes Clark would stand for this "PUMA" crap? Or for that matter, do you really think Hillary Clinton would?
Here's another fact: THEY'RE NOT! No good Democrat works against the best interest of our nation & our values like they are.
Help Clintonistas for Obama help Democrats win! :-)
They haven't and they wouldn't. Both Gen. Clark AND Sen. Clinton have endorsed and supported Sen. Obama.
And I will point out that a couple of those links (the ones about Debra Bartoshevich) link to two articles I've written about her. In both cases, the articles were based on media reports and linked blog entries. If anyone wishes to correct me on those articles and show me proof the information I was working with on them was faulty, I remain happy and willing to review their information and make any corrections needed.
You've been a real hero here! Thanks for helping to expose the "PUMA" lies. Hopefully, my formerly pro-Hillary friends who are following them now will see what's really behind "PUMA" & join all the rest of us Hillary Clinton Democrats & Wes Clark Democrats in supporting Barack Obama. :-)
Help Clintonistas for Obama help Democrats win! :-)
...for willfully perpetuating your lies regarding PUMA
Why have Obama and the New Democratic Party chose to rehabilitate the Republican Party at a time when it and conservatism has proven to be such a failure? Answer: "Because that's where the money is."
I spent a fair amount of time at the old orange blog, defending both Clintons from idiotic ad hominem attacks during the primaries until I had to abandon the site because the extremists there were overtaking the site. I've gone back occasionally since, but I take most things on that site with a grain of salt now. I donated to Hillary's campaign and voted for her.
I could not see the value of such personal attacks against a fellow Democrat who supports most of the same policies I support.
Now, the primary is over and the Democrats have a nominee. I didn't support him in the primary, but I understand we have two choices in the general election. And again, the Democratic nominee supports many policies I generally support, because he's running on the same plank Clinton was running on. I guess retaliation from some Clinton supporters was inevitable for those who, like me, endured the Obama (really, anti-Clinton) extremists from the primary. It's sad that I find myself on Gen Clark's board sorting through similar anti-Obama extremists who see absolutely nothing good about Obama, and may or may not understand that they are performing the work of GOP operatives, who have gleefully backed up their efforts to divide the party and continue George W Bush's policies.
Well, we have only your word that you spent time on Kos defending Hillary .....but....
you obviously had no problem with the race baiting by Obama surrogates in SC.....so much so that the "first black president" was forced to say "I'm not racist"
Harry and Louise ads that effectively killed off any hope of UHC.
FISA..
And that's just a small part of it.
When Dems who stand up for the 4th Amendment and universal healthcare, are called extremists, I guess the party really has let me.
Why have Obama and the New Democratic Party chose to rehabilitate the Republican Party at a time when it and conservatism has proven to be such a failure? Answer: "Because that's where the money is."
Feel free to do a search, if you'd like. I wrote a couple of diaries in support of her. Reply to me and I will affirm my identity there.
And frankly, I like both candidates but had problems with both in the primary. As you point out, the race baiting was done by surrogates, so I don't know if I can hang that on Obama. But I do think he should have made a stronger defense of Bill Clinton's record in office instead of lumping it with Bush's. I had a big problem with that, and it still bothers me. As I often point out, Bill Clinton is the only Democrat elected to 2 terms since FDR, and he did a good job. I also had a problem with Clinton saying she and McCain had crossed the CinC threshold, to imply Obama had not--that was not a surrogate.
...of defending anybody who becomes the least bit controversial.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!
Way too conventional, and way too play-it-safe. It seems like he's trying to run out the clock with a half to play and a 3 point lead. It'll be interesting to see how he handles Biden's next "gaffe". And Biden certainly does speak his mind!
PUMAs are NOT Republicans. I've been a Democrat probably longer than you've been alive. You are in NO position to judge the depth of my commitment to this country or the party.
You have provided no facts. Your links are for the most part bogus. But before we dredge it all up again, why don't you do a little research here at CCN and see the points that have been made on both sides. Then decide where this blog needs to rehash it all over again.
As for what General Clark would stand for, I know for a FACT that he stands for any of us standing up for what we believe in.
Adleft has every right to post his opinions and more power to him. When he makes personal attacks on others here, he crosses a line. Same goes for you.
And we won't be bullied here, like many were on DU. Thank you for your post.
"Just so we're reminded of the ones who are held back, up front there ought to be a Man In Black."
-Johnny Cash
And we won't be bullied here, like many were on DU. Thank you for your post.
"Just so we're reminded of the ones who are held back, up front there ought to be a Man In Black."
-Johnny Cash
I would say that Obama's campaign led by David Axlerod, and their cast of thugs like Clyburn down in S.C. along with media thugs like Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann, Schuster and even Andrea Mitchell, are a better example.
Not only did they win with every dirty trick in the book, the continue to twist the knife.
If you knew anything about either alegre or riverdaughter, you wouldn't have included them in your list.
I don't know the others you've listed, but to paint at least these 2 among the 'ne'er-do-wells' is just .... hyperbolic.
Edited to add: A link to why Alegre is such a pro-Clinton person -- none of it had to do with partisan politics.
I don't know from alegre personally, so I can't say anything pro or con.
But Riverdaughter's site of late has been really disturbing. I've seen claims there that Sen. Obama's campaign, staff, or "minons" were behind the tragic and untimely deaths of Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones and Arkansas Democratic Party Chairman Bill Gwatney.
I think the best example though is 10 August on her site. Someone fell out of contact due to the cell phone battery going dead. What did Riverdaughter say on her site:
"If our friend doesn’t show up soon, Howard Dean and Barack Obama have a lot to answer for."
http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2008/08/10/sunday-its-on-your-head-howard-dean/
The people on that site have let their hatred of Sen. Obama and the DNC grow to the point that when the person's cell phone went flat, they assumed the worst and that Sen. Obama and Howard Dean were BEHIND it.
Kat, that's not reasonable.
I wrote an article about this at yestodemocracy.com
http://www.yestodemocracy.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/08/note-to-pumas-.html
I'm going to repeat what I wrote there:
"they're right in the sense that they "shouldn’t be going through this". And it is "shameful". But the blame for this mindset, this "they're all out to get us" attitude needs to be put squarely where it rightfully belongs - on the heads of Murphy, Larry Johnson, "Riverdaughter", "TexasDarlin", and every other PUMA and PUMA leader who has been feeding this cult of victimhood. THEY are the ones who have been causing this paranoia, THEY are the ones feeding this sense of "PUMA = victim". If they can make the PUMA followers scared and worried about their very safety, it makes them easier to manipulate and control. If they can keep PUMA followers feeling like they're victims and martyrs being attacked by Obama/Dean/DNC/whoever, then those followers are more likely to want to feel safer by believing the myths and lies - and less likely to question the party line.
I'm glad the person was safe and sound. But this doesn't explain - or excuse - the blinding paranoia that automatically assumes something bad happened because they're a PUMA.
Is it that PUMAs feel this constant need to make themselves out as martyrs for the cause? Or is it the leaders that find it's easier to manipulate and control if they can scare them and make the PUMA followers feel like martyrs for the cause?"
That's the thing that I find the saddest and most disturbing about PUMA and their followers - that they have let their hatred consume them to the point of paranoia. This isn't healthy - not for democracy, and not for the people involved.
I used to enjoy Riverdaughter's writings. But the items on her blog now are more than slightly disturbing
But you have not (apparently) been the target of threats. Obviously at least one of riverdaughter's friends has -- to the extent that she/they believe it is a real, physical threat.
I'm not sure how I'd react if I (or family or friends) were physically threatened over partisan politics, so I can't say what my reaction would be. I expect I'd worry/get angry too if that friend (or family member) became incommunicado.
I think you might too.
I've gotten death threats over the blogging I've done here and at Yes To Democracy.
I can completely sympathize with the desire to keep one's family safe - I have that desire daily, with my daughter and now with my fiance. (Yes, I'm now engaged)
But I don't automatically assume that the people making those threats are being controlled by the people I'm writing about. Because there's a lot of random f**knuts on the internet who get off on writing crap like that.
I'm glad their friend was safe and sound. But I believe that blaming Howard Dean or Sen. Obama for their fear something happened to their friend was irrational to put it mildly.
It's sad to see. And would be sad to see no matter WHAT side someone was on.
Though I've been married since before Jimmy Carter was President, I can still remember how it felt to begin to plan a completely new life together!
As to your other point, I didn't read that she thought Dean or Obama had anything personally to do with who or what had threatened her friend/family member.
Imagine! The idea that death threats are commonplace in politics. I admit that the Dean/Clark wars in 04 got heated, but never physical threats. Something has definitely changed this election cycle -- and not for the better.
I remember a lot of....heated debate between Clarkies and Edwards supporters in 2004.
But death threats?? Somethings screwy when supporters of any person are getting death threats for their support of that person.
And thanks for the congrats :-) I'm quite happy, and my daughter adores her step-mother to be *smile*
Sometime next fall is the plan. We want to do two receptions, one here in Washington, one down in Southern California.
It's funny, I'm engaged to the most politically apathetic person I know. What's even funnier? She's working as a poll worker in November, because she doesn't CARE one way or another who wins.
...there had been death threats.
My gawd, Stephanie Tubbs-Jones got death threats.
No, she shouldn't have jumped to conclusions but understandable under the circumstances.
Why have Obama and the New Democratic Party chose to rehabilitate the Republican Party at a time when it and conservatism has proven to be such a failure? Answer: "Because that's where the money is."
with tact might have raised differently or not at all. It serves no purpose here.
"It takes two to speak the truth - one to speak and one to hear." - Henry David Thoreau
I'm sure many of you have already seen this flaming pile of garbage...
...but I have now - thanks for posting it!
I have to say that's a really badly produced ad....
Production values? hardly any....
Message? ... not very effective -- she seems a bit flippant.
Why all the uproar? It's hardly persuasive and certainly not cause to start a flame war.
This is just one person.
The Just say No Deal coalition which includes PUMA is made up of thousands of Democrats.....some of whom will vote for the Dem ticket, some will vote third party, some will vote none of the above and yes, some will vote for McCain......but they all share one thing in common......
They have been told to take a hike and make way for the New Democratic Party
Yep, that's right. Delores Umbridge Donna Brazile said it on CNN for all to see.
So.....when people are told that their votes are no longer needed.....you can't go all fainting couch on us when they do just that.
Why have Obama and the New Democratic Party chose to rehabilitate the Republican Party at a time when it and conservatism has proven to be such a failure? Answer: "Because that's where the money is."
I don't know what that is, but it sounds like
you think they are capable of destroying your
world. Calm down, for God's sake. People
who formed the various "PUMA" groups did so
because of the behavior of the so-called
"leaders" of their chosen political party.
In other words, Democratic power brokers
ignored the democratic process to assure that
the candidate they preferred was selected.
To many of us, these are the people who behaved
like "thugs" and thereby lost out allegiance.
Calm down, they can't hurt you. OK?
It's politics. It's ugly. It's also a free
country. People, even those who may have been
lifelong Democrats, can choose who they want
to vote for. It continues to amaze me that the
supporters of Barack Obama become practically
apoplectic when he is criticized, especially by
Democrats. He certainly is not perfect, and
he keeps on doing things that contradict the
values held by traditional Democrats, even those
who may vote for him.
...their narrative though. That's the main thing.
Their heads would explode if they realized that PUMAs and those like them all across the country are just disenfranchised Dems.....like my next door neighbor who, I find out has voted Dem all her life, and has no idea what PUMA is and has never blogged in her life.
We have never talked politics over the garden fence, but the other day out of the blue, she let rip about O choosing Biden over Hillary. Her last words to me were "to hell with them"
But you see, that doesn't fit the narrative. Best to call them all rethugs. Makes them feel so much more righteous.
Why have Obama and the New Democratic Party chose to rehabilitate the Republican Party at a time when it and conservatism has proven to be such a failure? Answer: "Because that's where the money is."
Maddy, I, too, spoke to someone I see perhaps twice a year and have never spoken politics with...she mentioned that she had been a Hillary supporter, but had been planning to vote for Obama. Once the VP choice was unveiled, she was furious! Claimed "what kind of change is that to choose one of the longest serving senators". Now, she's not too sure she will vote, or vote for Obama. I doubt she'd consider herself a PUMA but she's entitled to her opinion and the right to express it.
Well, sometimes we Clintonistas speak with fork-ed tongue. We spent months lamenting Obama's lack of experience, especially in the international and security arenas, yet when he selects someone to compensate for his weaknesses, we complain that the selection doesn't represent "change," something on account of which we didn't rely in choosing Hillary. Now, Hillary would have been a great pick, too, but the chemistry was probably all wrong and Bill would have been a problem. I'll add that of the all candidates available for VP, Obama chose maybe the one with the most experience in the areas in which he is deficient.
I don't trust Obama's mantra of change. I do trust Biden's judgment to about the 93% level.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!
Obama ruled out Hillary as a running mate becuase she fis not represent changes. Yhen they turnaround and pick a 32 year senate veteran.
....Biden is probably the strongest of the 'not Hillary' or 'not Clark' faction, but you have to admit, his chances of actually winning in November would have been greatly increased by choosing either. Obama put his own pettiness before a sure win
Why have Obama and the New Democratic Party chose to rehabilitate the Republican Party at a time when it and conservatism has proven to be such a failure? Answer: "Because that's where the money is."
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YOU are one of the best Hillary Clinton supporters out there!
Reality does not seem to work for some people.
Hillary Clinton and the vast majority of her supporters want to fix this country and restore OUR Constitution! That will NOT happen with mccain.
WE support the Democratic Ticket because it is GOOD for the USA.
Barack Obama and Joe Biden 08
I have one word for you
FISA
Why have Obama and the New Democratic Party chose to rehabilitate the Republican Party at a time when it and conservatism has proven to be such a failure? Answer: "Because that's where the money is."
"Did, too!/ Did not!" on BOTH sides of the argument
If there's no chance that the dialogue will improve, I'll close the thread for comments.
I really like don't seeing my "family" argue with one another so viciously.
Heck, I'm pissed off as hell at Obama for his treatment of Clark, but I am aware that he, technically, got more of the delegates.
FWIW, I didn't care who won the primaries (as long as it wasn't Edwawrds). I didn't think anyone of them could hold a candle to Clark.
I have read the comments on the General's blog for a long time. I have supported him since '03.
When I made remarks about infighting recently, well, it did not go over well with some. One person called me crazy.
So I read and shake my head.
I do not know why people cannot debate civilly, and not get upset when others do not share their point of view.
IMHO, if Hillary wants to run in 2012 this anger is going to come back and bite her in her hind parts. Big Dawg, who I used to like seems unable to get over this loss, fair or not.
I do not like the Dem ticket. But I will not stay home. I have to vote. Because John McCain (let's play the P.O.W card when he can not answer a question) will complete Bush's destruction of this country.
This diary reminds me of something I read on TalkLeft this morning. From BTD...
But what you see projected from the Obama camp and Democrats of late is the notion that Barack Obama is entitled to the support of all Democratic voters. No matter what you, I, pundits and bloggers think, that is not how politics works. If Obama can learn just one thing from Bill and Hillary Clinton, it has to be the ability to fight for every vote. To NOT act like you are entitled to anybody's vote. To act like you believe you have to earn their votes.
More:
Railing about PUMAs and the Clintons is exactly what NOT to do. Are you upset that Clinton supporters are not moving to Obama? Keep it to yourself. Think of the big picture. This election is too important. Of course Obama chose to not pick Hillary Clinton as his running mate, and we know that would have fixed everything, except for a very few diehards. Obama chose to not do that.
So the price for that is to suck it up. To placate, court, woo, do what you have to, to get Clinton supporters on board for Obama. It may be that "Clinton supporters are the problem", but it is Barack Obama's problem. And if you want to help him solve it, stop whining about Clinton supporters and start trying to win them over.
The alternative is pouting, holding your breath and maybe losing the election.
By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only
In other words, get a fricken clue. People are mad. They are protesting. Calling us Rethuglicans is not going to get you anywhere.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. ~Gloria Steinem
Please keep cross posting here.
Thank you for helping to deal with reality.
Barack Obama and Joe Biden 08
It didn't ...
I've not done this in years, but comments on this blog are closed.
Any effort to pursue the same argument in another thread will 1) get that thread shut down too and 2) get people put on moderation.
Enough!
Help Clintonistas for Obama help Democrats win! :-)