Without Wes. Oh, excuse me, he is included. "Other retired generals."

We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.

try and not take these things so personally. Wes isn't, so why should we?

Barack Obama and Joe Biden 08

http://barackobama.com

How he takes it.

WKC has a mission that he takes seriously. Don't confuse that with what he feels about how he's being treated.

But you also have no idea either.

If he does take it persoanally, but I doubt it, he is big enough not to show it or to let it get in the way of what needs to be done.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden 08

http://barackobama.com

It's pretty obvious that Wes was upset by it or he would have suggested to Steve Clemons that he should drop it.

We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.

that Wes's actual feelings are different from his public persona you have no business making that public. Show some discipline. I have no problem if you can't get behind the nominee, but if you don't respect those of us who will get behind the whole ticket, from top to bottom, at least don't keep attacking us. Just work for those Democrats you feel comfortable with.

Does anyone really think Bush will catch bin Ladin?

What are you talking about??? All my conclusions come from public information.

Perhaps those of you who support Obama could be careful to not say things that would hurt Wes if my interpretation of Wes's feelings IS true. "Together"? Imagine that Wes is privately hurting over what Obama did to him. Wouldn't a blog called "Together" be a slap in the face to him? How about you Obama supporters think about THAT? How about if you assume that Wes just might be privately hurting like hell and tread lightly on his feelings? What would that hurt? Have some discipline. Consider that you MIGHT be wrong and act accordingly.

There is no doubt that Obama has crapped on Wes. There's no need to cheerlead for him here. There are plenty of places to do that. Why take the chance that you're hurting Wes? Why would you want to do that? Why would you want to take any risk that you were hurting him? Why? Sure, work on getting Obama elected. Beat the crap out of McCain. But don't come here to the site of the guy who was walked all over by Obama and go all rah rah. Even if it doesn't bother Wes directly, it's clear that it bothers many of his supporters, and we all know Wes well enough to know that would bother him.

So stick to business and keep the cheerleading out of it. And, no, I did NOT attack Kevin here. All I did was attack "Together." It's time you Obama supporters started acting like gracious winners and considered the feelings of those who have been hurt by him, knowing that "those" could very well include Wes, and certainly includes some of his biggest supporters.

We learn. We change. That's progress. If we don't do that, well, we're GWB.

We all know how WKC loves to be left on the periphery, a non-participant in the national discourse. Yeah right.

But I agree that he is "big enough" (and then some) to keep the big picture in priority. He would be better equipped to do so if he could count on the loyalty of his supporters.

Despite charges of arrogance directed against him from the right, he has made clear that it is not about him or his ego. He is willing to put his ego and his feelings aside for the greater good. It shows a maturity that I wish more people, not just politicians, had.

Wes'll be back. Mark my words.

Does anyone really think Bush will catch bin Ladin?

Wes on at 8:15 AM on MSNBC's Morning Joe, I'm looking forward to seeing him on the good old brick TV, it's been far, far too long. Hope to see more of him and the Clintons in the days and weeks to come.

But I think WKC will be back under different circumstances than you apparently do.

But there's one thing that strikes me (and this is not addressed only to Dan Juma) after this and all the prior disrespect General Clark has endured from the Obama camp.

During Kerry's 04 campaign, he was generally respectful of the General and seemed to listen to his opinions and advice, spending time with him on his campaign plane and asking him to appear side-by-side with him in large venues such as Seattle and New Mexico. He never pigeon-holed WKC as only another military guy. I'm not saying Kerry's a better person for it, just that he had enough background to appreciate the General's value to getting him elected, and possibly to governing afterwards.

But there were one or two times, when the General made too direct a criticism of Bush (too direct for Kerry's taste, but appropriate in my opinion) where the Kerry staff issued a statement to distance him from WKC. And you know what? We were ALL outraged. EVERYONE of us. Regardless of how strongly we supported Kerry (and believe me, it took some Clarkies a very long time to get on board the Kerry train).

And yet even tho Obama himself has NEVER indicated he has any appreciation for anything WKC has to offer other than as a military photo-op, whenever Obama or his people mistreat the General, the Obama supporters here do one (or more) of three things: 1) They disappear. 2) They make excuses for the bad behavior. Or 3) they chastise the rest of us for expressing our outrage. They seldom voice any more than the mildest criticism, if that, and never ever rate our angry blogs or messages up or otherwise indicate they agree with how we feel.

To some here, supporting Senator Obama always seems to be a higher priority than supporting General Clark.

And that is why some of the rest of us have to wonder about these people's sincerity as Clarkies. Others blame it on the cultist aspects of the Obama "movement." But personally, I suspect it's more a matter of being unwilling or unable to break the us/them mentality and admit that maybe we are right about at least a few of Obama's failings.

So if anyone wonders why some of the rest of us question their "Clarkie" sincerity, or accuse them of being cultists or rO-bots, think about

Righto, Jai. When Kerry was floundering around on the war and foreign policy, Kerry summoned Clark to Las Vegas, and, as the story goes, Wes gave Kerry an earful on the way from Vegas to New Mexico. Kerry's spiel thereafter was more focused and coherent.

I tried a couple of times to get Wes out here for candidates and was told that his schedule was more or less kept on an Etch-a-Sketch, and no commitments could be made much in advance because he was always subject to Kerry's summons.

Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Wes Clark -- Make America All It Can Be!

WKC has a mission that he takes seriously. Don't confuse that with what he feels about how he's being treated.

Wes has been mistreated by Obama's foreign policy people and by some PUMA people at noquarterusa.com. They don't understand what you do.  Wes takes the defeat of the present foreign policy represented by McCain as the prime objective. It is more important to him then to other lesser people.