Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:00:02 -0400
of the woman who would be a 72 year old man's heartbeat away from the Presidency.
Shockingly irresponsible.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"
Clarkie since Summer, 2003
As a Democrat, the choice of Palin delights me. It shows, once again, that Obama has the judgement to make Presidential decisions and McCain does not.
But as an American...and I'm an American before I'm a Democrat, the choice of Palin terrifies me. It's inconceivable. He met her once. It's a purely cynical, irresponsible pick which is condescending to all 18 million women who voted for Hillary Clinton.
What is more frightening, McCain as President or Palin as President? As frightening as McCain would be, I think Palin is even more frightening as President. I have now doubt this woman who loves AK-47s would carry that same gun-slinging mentality into a world she knows absolutely nothing about.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"
Clarkie since Summer, 2003
I've been trying to stay away from the fingernails raking down the blackboard of current Democratic presidential politics, but for old time's sake couldn't resist responding to your post. I suppose if you re-read your own post inserting Barack Obama's name for Palin, you might feel basically as I have felt for the last few months. Cynical irresponsible terrified condescending knows absolutely nothing about- check check check.
I'm not sure I'd take anything they say including he met her once thingee to the bank. That kinda sounds like a Rovian soundbite. They effectively countered Biden- and I like Biden more than most however he only reassures the base somewhat (not me, not at all) & expanded nothing- that dog won't hunt outside the mid-Atlantic & don't believe it helps much in the Appalachian areas & the south if this way of considering things is still relevant.
You might wish to keep in mind (since the O! campaign didn't) that since the actual puppetmasters seem to be somewhat offstage & out of the limelight (we are blessed with so many talented actors & actresses in modern politics, no?) and with the voting machines in disarray that all the Rs need to do is to spin a credible story, they don't care about policy they are focused on winning. This time how they win? Cover story: attract former Clinton voters. It was, sadly, a good way for Crazy Train to cause a buzz, get Republican women up on their feet & out working, reignite the evangelical base, attract Indies, soften McCain, young him up & make him a change agent as well as tip their hat to his laughable renegade status. In two words, crossover appeal. In two more, map changer.
Palin reads like the script of the series Commander in Chief.
With elections won by the narrowest of (in some cases, entirely unchallenged) margins, and since exactly like their bretheren Democrats they simply don't give a crap whatsoever about fielding someone with a high degree of relevant experience - at a time of losing two wars, listing economy, blah blah blah it really seems like this election has already gone over Niagra Falls in a barrel to me.
would have won the Republican nomination, and there's a good reason for that.
Obama won the Democratic nomination, and there's a good reason for that.
And that's the difference in a nutshell.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"
Clarkie since Summer, 2003
and in the coming days, the beauty queen is going to be asked some very serious questions by some very serious people, and I expect she's going to look like a very serious deer in front of some very serious headlights.
The "Effectively countered" Biden could answer, in depth, any and all questions on any and all issues thrown his way. You could throw a dart at a world map and he could tell you who's in charge, how they came to power, factions, parties, what have you.. and that includes darts that land within our borders.
So yes, it will come down to the issues.
And it seems to me that Palin is the Governor of Alaska, the fact that she's a she is just a happy bonus gimmick for McCain, because I expect the idea will be to talk about ANWR, talk about drilling, talk about gas prices, talk about gas prices affecting the economy and better people's lives by reducing our dependence on foreign oil, all thanks to Alaska.
Some sneak previews of a deer in headlights.
As for that VP talk all the time, I'll tell you, I still can't answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day? I'm used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration. We want to make sure that that VP slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans and for the things that we're trying to accomplish up here for the rest of the U.S., before I can even start addressing that question.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/29/sarah-palin-what-exactly_n_122514.html
Hope someone has a handbook.
"We want to make sure that that VP slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans..."
We've seen already that the Alaska delegation seems to consider Congress their personal piggy bank - does Palin think that her job as VP is to send more taxpayer money back to Alaska?
"It takes two to speak the truth - one to speak and one to hear." - Henry David Thoreau
She's very popular in Alaska. She's fought with the oil companies there. She's come up with some creative ideas for dealing with the rising cost of gas and utilities for people there. The Republican base will be comfortable with her. I'm not from her wing of politics, but she's a refreshing choice.
It's going to be a tougher race than you think.
It's frightening that one of the nominees of the two major political parties could nominate someone so unqualified. He met her ONCE.
McCain did not pick anyone who he thought could help him in office or be the best President to replace him; he picked her not for America, but for his own selfish ego.
It's sickening.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"
Clarkie since Summer, 2003
...as CIC
Two reasons:
1) Wes Clark isn't a Republican
2) DNC had already established precedent this year
The people of American CHOSE Barack Obama; Hillary lost
If you don't yet understand that simple truth, I would respectfully suggest you might be happier blogging at this site:
hillaryis44.com
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"
Clarkie since Summer, 2003
A small segment of the American people voted in the Democratic primaries and the majority of those votes went for Hillary Clinton...Democratic superdelegates numbering in the hundreds overruled that choice and decided on Obama
I never said a majority of votes did not go for Clinton. You don't win votes when your opponent's name is not on the ballot, however. And nobody knows for sure how many people voted in the caucuses.
Both knew the rules going in. I think we should get rid of caucuses, too, but the fact is the people chose Obama and Hillary lost.
Actually, I think they are both winners, on some level.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"
Clarkie since Summer, 2003
our electoral process sucks, there's no question about it
but that process was in place long...long before Hillary lost it
Hillary of course (snark). Actions have consequences.
"It does not take many words to tell the truth". Chief Joseph, Nez Perce
[...] As it turns out, McAuliffe's definition of the word "always" is pretty unconventional, for it was not too long ago, he thought something entirely different. In fact, the entirely different thought he thought was something he thought so hard that he even put in a book of his other thoughts, entitled What A Party! And what a party it was! When Michigan Senator Carl Levin wanted to move up the Michigan primary in 2004, McAuliffe shot him down with swagger, belittlement, and the sorts of words he's not using these days, now that he finds himself on the other side of the fence. Via Mark Nickolas' well-chosen excerpt:
"I'm going outside the primary window," [Michigan Sen. Carl Levin] told me definitively.
"If I allow you to do that, the whole system collapses," I said. "We will have chaos. I let you make your case to the DNC, and we voted unanimously and you lost."
He kept insisting that they were going to move up Michigan on their own, even though if they did that, they would lose half their delegates. By that point Carl and I were leaning toward each other over a table in the middle of the room, shouting and dropping the occasional expletive.
"You won't deny us seats at the convention," he said.
"Carl, take it to the bank," I said. "They will not get a credential. The closest they'll get to Boston will be watching it on television. I will not let you break this entire nominating process for one state. The rules are the rules. If you want to call my bluff, Carl, you go ahead and do it."
We glared at each other some more, but there was nothing much left to say. I was holding all the cards and Levin knew it.
That's on page 325, by the way, so, if you want a refund, that's the page you want to tear out and send to McAuliffe.[...]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/27/mcauliffe-has-flip-floppe_n_98857.html
that everytime you post this quote there are those
***crickets***crickets****crickets**** that are such a popular topic here. Go figure.
"...we must still put our people back into positions where our beliefs and values can be worked for. So, I'm supporting Barrack [sic] and the ticket wholeheartedly and ask you to do the same." -Wesley Clark, 8/21/08
Have been thru the arguments so many times. Why dredge them all up again?
I can't see that this quote from McAuliffe's book adds anything to the conversation.
He doesn't write that he would actually transfer votes from one candidate and give them to a candidate that was not on the ballot. The threat of half votes is valid, the actual theft of votes is criminal and something I only expected from the GOP, especially after 2000.
"He kept insisting that they were going to move up Michigan on their own, even though if they did that, they would lose half their delegates."
It would still have gone to the rules committee as it did this time. Remember Dean's escape from any responsibility by saying it was out of the hands of the Chair. There is always bluster and bluff in these political games. Why did Levin back down then and not now?
but why did McAuiliffe change his tune so radically in 2008?
(purely rhetorical question - we know "why")
have we beaten this dead horse sufficiently now?
To take votes cast for a specific candidate and give them to another was not suggested or done by McAuliffe. It was done by w and the SC, and now by the (supposed) Democratic Party under the "Levin" compromise. Because of this, the DNC is a dead horse to me. Dean has made McAuliffe appear all the more competent.
the votes weren't stolen
they were invalid
and if the DNC is ever to be taken seriously again (in a pig's eye) they should have remained invalid
You have asked a CCNer to leave just because you disagree with him. Stop it.
You have no corner on the Truth, simple or otherwise.
Is she the best-equipped Republican to serve as president if something happens to McCain? Absolutely not.
Does she have social conservative credentials? Yes.
Does she have impeccable pro-life credentials? Yes.
Does she have fiscally conservative credentials? Kinda sorta, but it can be spun that way.
Does she have bonuses? Yes. Went up aginst her own party and won. Female. Young. Unknown. Pretty. Presumably no personal baggage. Engaging enough to have the highest approval rating of any governor in the US (granted that Alaska is both sparsely populated and quirky....)
If he can't get elected, he can't effect his own agenda. Palin may well help him get elected.
He didn't get re-elected because the country tanked and he was out of touch, not because he had an unqualified running mate. Also, Perot helped. Plus, Clinton was an excellent candidate.
There really aren't that many good VEEP picks in the pipeline for McCain, especially since he needed to lock up the base. Romney's a Mormon, Huckabee didn't like him, Ridge is pro-choice and Pawlenty is apparently boring. (I have to wonder what's in Pawlenty's background, though - because I thought he was a shoo-in, even if he's way boring).
If we go to the female side:
Christie Todd Whitman has ties to GWB.
Kay Bailey Hutchinson is too much like Hillary.
Enter Palin, a genuine maverick with impeccable evangelical credentials. Yes, she's not experienced - but her two years of chief executive experience is more than Obama, Biden and McCain put together. She doesn't have good national security credentials - but are Obama's really that much better? Biden's are, McCain's are - but she's running for Veep, not for president.
I've been underestimating McCain, that's for sure.
For discussion, stack the comments from Biden, Hillary, and Dodd about Obama's inexperience on others on how he is not ready to lead from the debates and compare that to the flip-flop that Biden and the Clintons did at the convention. The Clintons obviousely had no choice, One of these "you'll never work in this town again" deals.
can't trust mccain
(and to the extent that there is any hillary/obama debate
going on, people have got to breathe and ask
themselves: sweet jesus, what's
better for the country?
after the mcsame Veep pick, it's obvious)
country needs direction:
OBAMA/BIDEN 08
DEM CONGRESS 08
time to give dems a chance--if they screw it up
we kick their asses out!!!
but mccain/palin-- nfw!!!!!
Bill (from RI)
Would you be saying this? She's a rising star in the Republican party. They can pick anyone they want. Instead of tearing down Sarah, why not go out and get your guy elected.
The bottom line is when push came to shove, Obama didn't pick Kaine, he picked Biden.
I don't think chosing Kaine to be VP would have been in the intereet of the nation. I think picking Biden was.
who picked himself, Republicans tend to pick a VP for the traditional role of attending funerals. They don't typically look for a partner in governing. I don't expect the selection of Palin to win over Democrats to vote for McCain. However, running her down, rather than building up the Democratic candidate, just is a turnoff for some people. Think about it.
... but why do you make yourself seem like such an authority about everything? You're always telling us what we should be doing, who/what we should be supporting. As much as I wish I could be, I'm not 5 years old. Do you really know any more than the rest of us about Palin's life? I doubt it, since more and more is coming out about her true popularity rating, her true environmentalist agenda, etc., etc., etc. Your previous life is continuously referred to by yourself, but please don't make it out like you're one-up on the rest of us because of it. It's really, really tiresome.
...we must still put our people back into positions where our beliefs and values can be worked for. So, I'm supporting Barrack [sic] and the ticket wholeheartedly and ask you to do the same." -Wesley Clark, 8/21/08
Ljm expressed her opinion. That's what we all do here. It's one thing that blogs are for.
I can't see that she's tried to make herself "an authority" any more than anyone else. We all have have life experiences that inform our opinions and it's a good thing when we can used them to help explain where we're coming from.
She can call up the powerful (but in my opinion extremely misguided) conservative "narrative" in a way that could help McCain win.
Take a look at George Lakoff's thoughts on this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-lakoff/the-palin-choice-and-the_b_123012.html
was showing pictures of a General, new to politics, in a bathing suit. And then the frenzy died down. After all is said and done, it turns out his ideas became more important than the image.
comparing Palin's "ideas" to Clark's?
What ideas?
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"
Clarkie since Summer, 2003
Just commenting that because a man or woman is easy on the eyes, it does not necessarily mean that they are unintelligent.
Can be considered just as pejorative as "geezer."
See what happens when you set yourself up as the language police?
and if you think it is perjorative, then downrate defoliatebush who started the mini-thread
Reality-based science equals real national security.
But whether it is or not, DB didn't downrate anyone for using language of which he didn't approve. In fact, DB has a rather long history of using language of which no one approves. It's part of his charm.
I see no justification whatsoever for your having downrated the post that you down-rated in this particular nest of comments
Your words today did what nothing else could have done. All over the Democratic world, I see people who opposed Clinton and people who supported Clinton joined together in mutual outrage that such a coattail-riding nothing as you could compare yourself to Senator Clinton, and then claim that you're going to accomplish what she couldn't. I see unity, I see Democrats not hating each other anymore, and I fucking love it.
I'm guessing that McCain chose you because he mistakenly assumes that we Clinton supporters were only behind her because she's a woman. That's not even close to being the case. We supported her because she's tough, brilliant, hard-working, dedicated, and just a damned fine lawmaker and public servant all-around. The gender thing was mostly just the icing on the cake, so to speak. There are some within our ranks (not many, but some) who until recently were still rather dubious about voting for Obama. The wounds of the primary hurt badly, and left scars.
However, the moment that McCain nominated you as his running mate and you made your ill-fated little comments, you became the butterfly wings that started a windstorm. In this case, that storm didn't damage--it healed. It blew away months of resentment and hurt, and brought us all together again. People who were angry at Senator Clinton are now angry at YOU for comparing yourself to her--right or wrong, she's OURS. Clinton supporters who were hurting over the primaries are now furious with YOU for pretending that you're even fit to stand in her shadow, much less take her place in our hearts.
Governor Palin, let me be plain. You are a joke. You're a hyped-up beauty queen with practically no experience. You're in the midst of a scandal because you abused your power as a governor in order to get a bit of revenge on someone who refused to cater to your pathetic and petty nepotism. You're a woman who wants to strip away the bodily autonomy of your fellow women--a traitor of the vilest sort. You're only on the Republican ticket because Hillary Rodham Clinton worked her ASS off to convince America that a woman CAN be tough enough to lead this nation. Love Clinton or hate her, nobody can deny that she's tough as nails; her historic primary run, controversies and all, certainly made sure that the vast majority of America now believes that women ARE tough enough to lead. If not for the work she did in changing the status-quo mindset about what women are capable of doing, YOU would not be where you are today.
I have witnessed the careers of Senator Obama and Senator Clinton with admiration, frustration, and a deep sense of gratitude for being born in time to see all of these wonderful changes happen. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton brought more positive change to America during a PRIMARY than the Republican party has been able to muster after a GENERAL election win. We know Senator Obama and Senator Clinton; they are part of us, and we are part of them. John McCain is no Barack Obama, and YOU are certainly no Hillary Clinton. But in comparing yourself to her, you did what many of us thought could never happen--you brought Obama and Clinton supporters together again. Thank you ever so much--we appreciate it.
John McCain and Sarah Palin, be aware--you are standing on the tracks, and the Democratic train is coming. Oh yes it is. We are united, we are Democrats together, and we are unstoppable. The wisest thing that either of you two nincompoops could do would be to get the hell OUT OF THE WAY.
Kitchen sink? Get ready for the whole goddamned kitchen.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"
Clarkie since Summer, 2003
I object to such gratuitous pejoratives as this,
"such a coattail-riding nothing as you"
and don't know where I'll hang out of this stuff continues.
There is plenty to object to substantively about mcC/palin.
It has to be about the issues. Palin may be inexperienced, but the same argument will be made about Obama, it has to be about judgment and issues and the vision for the country.
I've been doing some research and Palin has a long record on the issues that could be very uncomfortable. Attacking Palin in a manner that is rude only helps McCain.
Clark After Dark Poetry Corner
Labor Day Weekend Edition
8-30-08 approx. 12:16 am et
• "Governor Palin, I sincerely thank you."
• I agree, Maddy.
• What part of my post were you correcting?
• Correction
• gmafb,
• It's not so much.....
• Where did I say
• I'm so sick of the bullshit spewn on this site
• Cheesecake/Beefcake War
• There is no way Palin
WHO'S ONLINE?
There are currently 15 users and 25 guests online.
Online conventiongoers:
* Defoliate Bush
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:: :: :: :: :: ::
For your enjoyment!
Here's one by everybody's fave, Matt Taibbi:
Candidates for Sale
What do Obama and McCain have in common? The same big donors, who will expect to have their way no matter who wins
And, guess who wrote this:
Have a Safe and Enjoyable Labor Day Weekend!
Can I get a HOT DOG QUOTE????
(I'll meet you conventiongoers in front of the "Larry Craig Memorial Men's Lavatory" at say around 4 Sunday? Right? I'll be the guy with the W I D E stance!)
www.mccainsfreeride.com
a few days ago. "Most elections are about replacing their crooks with our crooks."
Here's an example of what I meant:
Courtesy of Rolling Stone Mag.:
Matt Taibbi:
Candidates for Sale
What do Obama and McCain have in common? The same big donors, who will expect to have their way no matter who wins
Both would-be presidents have already sold us out. They've taken the money and run — completing the cyclical transformation of the American political narrative from one of monopolistic Republican iniquity to an even more depressing tale about the overweening power of corporate money and the essentially fictitious nature of our two-party system.
In layman's terms, we've gone from being screwed to being fu*ked. Who knows — maybe Barack Obama will surprise us if he wins the election. But if you look at the money, it doesn't look good.
~snip~
Other companies are getting in on the ground floor with the new chief by stuffing money in his ears. Overall, Obama is flat-out kicking McCain's ass when it comes to Wall Street contributions, raking in nearly $9 million from securities and investment executives, compared to $6.2 million for McCain. Obama has received more contributions from Goldman Sachs than from any other employer — more than $627,000 at this writing — not to mention $398,021 from JP Morgan Chase, $353,922 from Lehman Brothers and $291,388 from Morgan Stanley. Even among hedge-fund executives, who have an unequivocal interest in electing McCain, Obama is whipping the Republican, collecting $500,000 more than McCain. All of which begs the question: Why would corporate giants like these throw so much weight behind a man who promises to strip them of billions in tax breaks?
Sadly, the answer to that question increasingly appears to be that Obama is, well, full of shit.
~snip~
Obama withdrew his pledge to filibuster the immunity bill right around the time the Democrats announced that AT&T would be sponsoring the Democratic convention. So no filibuster on retroactive immunity from the top Democrat — but conventiongoers in Denver will get tote bags emblazoned with the AT&T logo. So that's something.
TO RECAP, they're NOT going to reliably count our votes AND Big Business is hedging its bets on BOTH SIDES, where does that leave us average working stiffs voters?"
BF: Idiots. God, are they idiots… and it’s gonna be a real tough time for Democrats, now and forever, until they do something about the media. And it’s not just FOX, they’re emblematic. We drove here, we drive all around the country… you turn on the radio, it’s four levels deep of right-wing talk radio. Good luck finding any progressive radio. And if you can have that kind of coverage, that kind of ownership of the media by the so-called “right wing,” you know, you’re gonna have this every single time. Turn a war hero like Kerry into a raving pansy.
Complete interview HERE
Didn't ole RUSH just sign a deal worth $400 MILLION???
www.mccainsfreeride.com
but not that bad.
FOX kept promoting the notion that Hillary and Bill had their political enemies murdered. Fox promoted the Obama is a muslim lie, Fox promoted the notion Obama isn't Black but in fact Arab. Fox promoted the idea that Michelle Obama hates America. Fox promoted war with Iran.
Not only that, but when even the MSM press (ABC) tried to cover the "special" lavish and "private" event hosted by AT&T especially for those who voted against the FISA bill (remember they are the largest sponsors of the whole DNC convention), even MSM members were intimidated and shut out (watch previous episodes of Democray Now).
And, of course, there is the incident of an ABC reporter working on segment about corporate influence in the DNC. Well, he got arrested and handcuffed for filming things from a public sidewalk, which all of a sudden turned into private property of the hotel the privileged guests were arriving at.
Yes, it's even hitting MSM reporters who've been all along cheerleaders. God knows what will happen next. It's a potential civil war in the makings. You start alienating the MSM that has been a buddy all along, arresting their reporters, and someone is going to take notice in a most unpleasant way.
"It does not take many words to tell the truth". Chief Joseph, Nez Perce
"...but when even the MSM press (ABC) tried to cover the "special" lavish and "private" event hosted by AT&T especially for those who voted against the FISA bill."
I meant to say especially for those who voted FOR the FISA bill. Apologies, late night and tired checking on details. It's been quite of a day, and my brain is pretty well worn out.
"It does not take many words to tell the truth". Chief Joseph, Nez Perce
Dollars to donuts the "network" will NOT support this employee, should said employee file any First Amendment charges. The "networks" employ an army of lawyers (not to mention an army of lobbyists). If they wanted to, they could dispatch their best attorneys. BUT THEY WON'T.
Catch that videographer/reporter's name. The ACLU may weigh in if this employee "lawyers up".
MAGIC BALL: The Denver PD will take their cue from NYC and DROP ALL CHARGES when it comes to trial. In October.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
www.mccainsfreeride.com
A little intimidation will go a long way to get the gutless corporate media to stop being too inquisitive and return to their cheerleading.
Wesley K. Clark
Tennessee True Values Tour Remarks
Jackson, TN
February 4, 2004
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. ~Gloria Steinem