former Bush Homeland Security advisor Francis Townsend after the first Presidential debate:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/28/se.01.html

CNN LIVE EVENT/SPECIAL

Political Analysis On What Americans Did Not Hear In The Presidential Debates Last Night: Job Losses, Illegal Immigration, The Plight Of The Middle Class

Aired September 28, 2008 - 20:00 ET

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANCHOR: "During the debate John McCain said the lesson of Iraq is very clear. You can't have a fail strategy that will then cause you to nearly lose a conflict. That was clear?

Barack Obama said the less on of Iraq is we have to use our military wisely and we didn't use it wisely in Iraq. What they didn't say is when will our troops come home. With me, for a reality check, is CNN Correspondent Michael Ware, who is based in Baghdad, and has covered the entire course of the war. Also, Francis Townsend, who was President Bush's Homeland Security advisor and is now a CNN national security contributor.

And Francis, I want to start with you.

FRANCIS TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: Sure.

MARTIN: Lot of conversation about Afghanistan. What we need to do: more troops, more troops. How do we accomplish that when we have so many troops in Iraq. Something has to give on that issue.

TOWNSEND: Sure, Roland, but we already have some troops drawing down and President Bush has talked about that. And so you can begin to see and we have already begun to build up troops in Afghanistan.

What I thought it was most interesting and most important, about the discussion about Afghanistan, is you can't solve it just if you are looking at Afghanistan . You have to deal with the tribal areas. You have to deal with Pakistan . This is a region that is very closely integrated and you have to deal with it as a single problem set. And that's what they talked about./

MARTIN: Now, Michael, we kept hearing the talking about, again, the troops. McCain saying I've been there and you should have been at the hearings.

MICHAEL WARE, CNN BAGHDAD CORRESPONDENT: (SIGH)

MARTIN: I take it you were not quite impressed by their conversation.

WARE: Yes, when he says he's been to Waziristan, I'm not sure it is the same part that I've been to, but anyway.

(LAUGHTER)

I mean, in all of this, Fran is right. Afghanistan can't be looked at in isolation. But there is two things, troops, troops, troops, is not going to fix it. I mean, if you have ever been in that terrain, that border swallows infantry divisions whole.

And correct me if I'm wrong, I think the Russians and Yaeties (ph) tried to flood it with troops and we saw how that ended up. You want to tackle the problem of Afghanistan, of a resurgent Taliban and nesting Al Qaeda? There is one thing that I'm yet to hear the candidates talk about that strikes right at the heart of this, the ISI, the Pakistani Intelligence Agency. That was part of creating the Taliban and continues, within rogue elements, or hard line elements of that intelligence service - though our alley, technically of Washington they're supporting the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

MARTIN: I also have to confront the reality, and we talked about it before Michael, in terms of - even with the surge, we focus on the military aspect. But look we paid a lot of folks off to put their weapons down. Let's be just honest. McCain even mentioned, he did not vote to support the building of Afghanistan after the Russians left. This is not a military issue, Fran, it is also a matter of humanitarian, building schools and businesses, besides just frankly, killing folks.

TOWNSEND: No, that is absolutely right Roland. And like Michael, I have been to the Coast (ph) and I've been to Jalalabad. These are the cities in Afghanistan right on the border. And what you realize is, you do need people to come in. You need the NGOs to be secure and comfortable to come in an build health clinics, to build schools. We built roads. We need more. But you have to build an economy. It's not just holding and clearing. It is actually building and helping the Afghans. One of John McCain's right complaints about Afghanistan is the Karzai government has not been very effective in extending their rule outside Kabul. And that has to change.

MARTIN: Lots of conversation about Iran, but is Pakistan a more critical issue; making sure we are straight with that. They have nuclear weapons, Al Qaeda, a new president. I mean, that is not a stable situation for the United States.

WARE: No it's not. And obviously, Pakistan, theoretically, should be a key U.S. ally. And certainly the civil government there in Islamabad, I firmly believe, as a newly democratic government, clearly does side with the U.S. It's interests much more closely aligned with Washington's, but as President Bush, himself, asked the Pakistani prime minister just a few months ago, who is controlling your intelligence service? This is in military and intelligence circles that dark nether world. The civilian government in Pakistan is very weak and the intelligence services and the military are very strong.

TOWNSEND: We had a lot of confidence in Kayani, who is the army chief of staff. Very impressive guy. He did control the intelligence service before his promotion. The problem is how deep does that control go? It's not - you know, we do continue to have concerns, I think, the U.S. government intelligence services, about penetration of the ISI by extremists.

WARE: But what can you do? There is very little you can do.

MARTIN: Which, frankly, brings up this whole point that came out yesterday, though, that how do you take action if you have intelligence? The bottom line is - at one point, they're saying, well, they are our partners and we're depending upon them. But they are kind of not our partners, we have concerns. So what do we do? Just sit here and do nothing?

TOWNSEND: Roland, one of the most stunning moments last night, tome, was when Barack Obama sounded like George Bush. Literally, Barack Obama said if we have intelligence against Al Qaeda senior leadership, we will action it, militarily. The interesting thing is President Bush has been saying if we had information on where bin Laden is, no options are off the table. I thought it was stunning, there was this moment when where all of a sudden, Barack Obama sounded like George W. Bush.

MARTIN: I want to ask you, though, remember though, he initially said at the Democratic primary, Michael, he was criticized for it.

WARE: Yes. MARTIN: But then, later, people said well, actually it really wasn't a bad idea. It was sort of like a reverse. I mean, that was surprising as well. Because McCain also criticized that, but as you said, President Bush had done the same thing. Dealing with terrorism, I want to bring up the economy as well. No discussion about how terrorism, globally, could still impact the American economy.

TOWNSEND: Look at 9/11 and we weren't - we had a budget surplus. We were not in conflicts in two places around the world. If you had a terrorist attack now with the fragility of our economy, imagine the recession. Imagine the size and impact on our economy and not a word when they are asked about the potential of a 9/11 here in this country. And the biggest issue before us today is the economy. Neither candidate makes the connection to the potential impact on our fragile economy, if there were a terrorist attack, stunning.

MARTIN: Michael?

WARE: Yes, as you well know, Fran. Al Qaeda and the some of the other hard-line Islamic militant groups, you don't think they are paying attention to these things?

MARTIN: No, they weren't watching, no.

WARE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Blind as a bats.

I mean, they are constantly seeking for, looking for the weak points. They are very savvy at staying on message, and getting, pardon the expression, as much bang for the buck. Don't forget terrorism is about capturing hearts and minds, instilling fear, and they have proven to be adept at that. So, we have seen them do it before. Target something like the economy. So, yes there is a vulnerability there and you do need to be aware of it.

MARTIN: Again, so much that they could have talked about, they didn't talk about and that's a shame. That's a shame.

WARE: No.

MARTIN: Francis, Michael, I certainly appreciate it. Thanks a bunch..."

Michael Ware's comments before the debate:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/26/ec.01.html

CNN ELECTION CENTER

Presidential Candidates Prepare to Debate

Aired September 26, 2008 - 20:00   ET

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: "We are about 45 minutes away from the start of the debate at Ole Miss down in Oxford, Mississippi, everybody looking forward to this moment that we have been waiting for, riding the roller-coaster ride of today, wondering whether it was going to happen or not. But it is on. John McCain will be there. And we're back with the best political team on television, or, as Jeffrey Toobin pointed out, the best political team in the world, because we have Michael Ware and Christiane Amanpour with us tonight. And we're taking full advantage of it.

And, Michael, let me pick up where we left off with you and talk a little bit about Iraq. You have spent so much time there. This was very much considered to be a strength for John McCain...

MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BROWN: ... especially with the success of the surge, how he would be able to highlight that. But if you look at the polling now, where Iraq falls in terms of people's priorities, I think it is number four in our latest CNN poll, health care ahead of it, and certainly the economy ahead of it, terrorism more generally ahead of it.

Is, in a way, John McCain a victim of his own success? Americans are not paying attention to Iraq. They don't want to talk about it. They want to talk about the Iraq, so he doesn't get to highlight where he was on many of those issues.

WARE: Well, it cuts both ways, really. I mean, obviously, for people back home, these day-to-day issues are much more salient. They're front and center. That's what people are living, you know, dawn to dusk. So, that's what people care about.

And Iraq, Iraq is a double-edged sword for Senator McCain. Yes, it's been one of the center points of his credibility as a potential leader in international affairs, but he has got so much wrong on Iraq as well. And the more and more he and even Senator Obama stick to these -- this trite sort of sound-biting of the surge, the surge, the surge, it's evident that they're dumbing it down, the complexities of the war in Iraq.

And the more they hammer that point, success or failure, the more they're revealing or they're telling us that they're not looking at the real issues, like, what is the surge? It goes far beyond 30,000 extra combat troops. I mean, we are talking about a whole host of factors. And, at the end of the day, the success we are seeing in Iraq comes with a heavy price tag.

And to just keep rabbiting on about the surge ignores the real issues that will face the next president...

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: And able to get into Michael Ware, I think some of the nuance that we talked about especially on issues like Iraq, which is very difficult to ask these candidates to do when they're asked to give two or three-minute answers.

MICHAEL WARE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And surely we are at the point where we're beyond sound bites. I mean, the American public unless I'm reading them wrong --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael, you've really been gone from America.

(LAUGHTER)

WARE: Yes. It's just one too many -- nothing like a front line to make it real. But, you know, I think America's hungry for something real.

I mean, aren't we tired of this (INAUDIBLE), I mean, this veneer? I mean, people want a real conversation. We want to know what we're really getting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'll see.

WARE: So let's actually -- let's actually hear from these people..."

-------------------------------------------------

Michael Ware's comments after the debate:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/26/acd.02.html

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Analyzing the First Presidential Debate

Aired September 26, 2008 - 23:00 ET

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, "AC360": Michael.

MICHAEL WARE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT BAGHDAD: "And Tehran will be surprised to learn that there are late forces of the Republican Guards as opposed to the Revolutionary Guard. And both candidates, first Senator McCain and then Senator Obama followed calling them the Republican Guards. Know thy enemy obviously doesn't apply in the presidential debate...

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: People still know the President of the United States is commander-in-chief. And so are they going to ask what was the answer on Waziristan or what was the answer about the Pakistani president? No. Are they going to say can this person be commander in chief? Because that's as big a judgment as how to deal with the financial crisis.

And what I found most striking is, remember 1992, Bill Clinton looked at George H.W. Bush and said I will go after the dictators and the butchers in Beijing. They had a foreign that wasn't all that much different.

That happens a lot in campaigns. The candidates draw these big contrasts in foreign and the establishment sort of runs foreign policy. In this campaign, there actually are differences; significant differences between these two men that would actually become the policy differences depending on who wins.

MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And John, you have something like 200,000 sons and daughters of America in combat situations right now, 200,000 sweating, bleeding, dying and then their families. Sure, you know, you're right, the economy is at the forefront, but you can't take --

KING: If you look at the universe of undecided voters, and who they are; they're Democrats and independents mostly. If you look at that universe, if those people thought today that Barack Obama was ready to be commander-in-chief, this election would have -- he would have a much bigger lead in the election.

The challenge for him in the debates is getting over that threshold. If he can do that, there's no reason he won't be the next president..."