Hello Everyone:

Here is the CNN video link of Gen. Clark on Larry King Live as a panel guest (along with Lieutenant Colonel Robert Maginnis, Lieutenant Dan Choi, and Tony Perkins) talking about repealing the military's "don't ask/don't tell" policy which only goes up to the commercial:

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2010/02/03/lkl.dont.ask.cnn

The end of 'don't ask' policy? 5:08

Source: CNN
Added On February 3, 2010

"A panel of ex-military, including Gen. Wesley Clark, debates the effectiveness and morality of "don't ask, don't tell."

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2010/02/03/lkl.dont.ask.cnn

I did not see any other videos of this dialogue after the commercial or with the full dialogue on CNN's video list or on YouTube yet. As soon as I see that video link is available, then I will add it to this post.

Right below is the CNN transcript of the full panel dialogue.

Here are the parts of the CNN transcript with everything that Gen. Clark said in this dialogue:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1002/02/lkl.01.html

CNN LARRY KING LIVE

Dr. Murray to Turn Himself In; Americans Jailed in Haiti; 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Debate

Aired February 2, 2010 - 21:00 ET

LARRY KING, HOST: "All right, General Clark, why is this the time to overturn it (the "don't ask/don't tell" policy)?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Oh, I think it's -- it's past due. I think that, first of all, we should honor all those who want to serve their country. I think it's wrong for people to be told they have to lie about who they are and cover up their identity in order to serve their country. Other nations have looked at this and they've said the policy isn't "don't ask/don't tell," it's don't misbehave. And their armed forces have gays serving in them and they're doing quite well. And I don't see any reason why we have to discriminate against men and women who want to serve their country...

KING: What is the fear, that the gay person will come on to a straight person or the straight person will be embarrassed to take -- what's the fear?

TONY PERKINS, PRESIDENT, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Well, I think we've seen the same thing when we -- we have to be very careful with how we integrate the sexes in the military, and I think a lot of people don't understand, present company excepted here, but the military is a different environment. There is very few occasions where you're living in the same room and showering with 80 men. Having been an enlisted man in the Marine Corps, there is no privacy. Officers have a little more privacy than enlisted men.

So especially when you're in training situations, where you have an individual that has the power, really, of life and death, in some circumstances, over individuals, there can be a lot of coercion. And this can be a very dangerous situation and very intimidating situation. It's just not healthy for the well-being of the military.

KING: General Clark, how do you respond to that?

CLARK: I think the standard is exactly what Tony suggested it should be, is don't misbehave. But, unfortunately, that's not what the Don't Ask, Don't Tell rule is about. It's about witch hunts, It's about tattle-tales. It's about a lot of pressure to cover things up, and not be seen, and not know who you are. So I think the standard ought to be, don't misbehave.

There is a lot of coercion in training. There's no doubt about it. It happens between men. It happens between men and women. It happens between men and men. And it happens between women and women. That's what it is when someone has power over someone else. It's not tolerated to misbehave in the civilian community, and it shouldn't be tolerated in the military. And that should be the end of it. People should be entitled to be who they are. And the standard is don't misbehave...

KING: General Clark, doesn't the military need people?

CLARK: The military needs people. And Larry, I do think attitudes have changed. I was a division commander with the First Cavalry Division when the last policy was adopted back in '93. I knew what the soldiers felt. I watched it over the years that I remained in the service. I talked to people about it. The attitudes changed even in the course of a few years. And they've changed more now.

But I would caution this. If this becomes a political football, and Democrats line up on one side and Republicans on the other, those opinion polls that we're talking about, and polling soldiers won't mean a darn thing again. It will just in flame the forces.

I think the standard is that Soldiers and Marines and Airmen and Sailors have to obey the law. They have to uphold the standards they've again given. They have to be responsible. They have to tell the truth. And they should be who they are. And that means we should accept human beings for who they are and honor and love them, because we need them in this country..."

Gen. Clark in my opinion has two very important qualities that I have always been impressed with which I think most other commentators do not have. These two qualities could be clearly seen in his comments:

1) Gen. Clark in my opinion has a much deeper insight into the issues that he talks about compared to most of the other commentators who I watch.

2) While Gen. Clark has his own personal opinion about controversial issues, I think that he is still above partisanship and that he always talks about issues in a very realistic and non-partisan manner.

Gen. Clark in all of his comments above strongly emphasized the issue of people's behavior when he said "the policy isn't "don't ask/don't tell," it's don't misbehave," "So I think the standard ought to be, don't misbehave," and "I think the standard is that Soldiers and Marines and Airmen and Sailors have to obey the law. They have to uphold the standards they've again given. They have to be responsible."

Gen. Clark also made what I think is one of the most important points about this issue that I am not hearing from many other commentators when he said "But I would caution this. If this becomes a political football, and Democrats line up on one side and Republicans on the other, those opinion polls that we're talking about, and polling soldiers won't mean a darn thing again. It will just in flame the forces."

This is where I think that Gen. Clark spoke in a very realistic and non-partisan manner. It is obvious to me that nobody on that panel was going to change the mind of anyone else on it but I think that everybody on both sides of the "don't ask/don't tell" issue should agree with Gen. Clark that "the standard ought to be, don't misbehave" and "If this becomes a political football, and Democrats line up on one side and Republicans on the other, those opinion polls that we're talking about, and polling soldiers won't mean a darn thing again. It will just in flame the forces."

I would really like to see people talking about what they should be able to agree on as a part of the solution (which is what I think that Gen. Clark did) instead of continually debating a controversial issue like this in a partisan manner when it is obvious that nobody is going to change the mind of anyone who disagrees with them!

Mitch Dworkin

http://mitchdworkin.com/
Check out my political website!

http://www.securingamerica.com/

http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/16039
RESOURCES: Speeches, Articles, and Career Highlights to help define Gen. Clark!
Submitted by Mitch Dworkin on July 7, 2008 - 2:51pm.

http://www.securingamerica.com/ccn/node/7191
Listen to Gen. Wes Clark fight for Dems on Sean Hannity's radio program: An excellent example for all of us to follow and what we all need to be doing to help fight back against extreme right wing Neocon smear propaganda!

--------------------

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1002/02/lkl.01.html

CNN LARRY KING LIVE

Dr. Murray to Turn Himself In; Americans Jailed in Haiti; 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Debate

Aired February 2, 2010 - 21:00 ET

LARRY KING, HOST: "Defense Secretary Gates told a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee today that the Pentagon is taking the first steps toward repealing the military's "don't ask/don't tell" policy.

To get into all of this -- all our guests in Washington -- General Wesley Clark, former NATO supreme Allied commander. He supports the president's call to end the policy.

Lieutenant Colonel Robert Maginnis, U.S. Army retired. He thinks it's too soon to repeal.

Lieutenant Dan Choi is a gay himself and currently serving in the National Guard. He faces discharge because of "don't ask, don't tell." He's a West Point graduate and an Iraq war combat veteran.

And Tony Perkins, former sergeant in the United States Marine Corps, president of the Family Research Council. He is against the repeal of "don't ask/don't tell".

We're going to show you back to back tapes now.

First, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Andrew Mullen, and then Senator John McCain.

One's going one way, one is the other.

Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MULLEN: Speaking for myself -- and myself only -- it is my personal belief that allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly would be the right thing to do. No matter how I look at this issue, I cannot escape being troubled by the fact that we have in place a policy which forces young men and women to lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Our men and women in uniform are fighting two wars, guarding the front lines against the global terrorist enemy, serving and sacrificing on battlefields far from home and working to rebuild and reform the force after more than eight years of conflict. At this moment, amidst hardship for our armed services, we should not be seeking to overturn the "don't ask/don't tell" policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: All right, General Clark, why is this the time to overturn it?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Oh, I think it's -- it's past due. I think that, first of all, we should honor all those who want to serve their country. I think it's wrong for people to be told they have to lie about who they are and cover up their identity in order to serve their country. Other nations have looked at this and they've said the policy isn't "don't ask/don't tell," it's don't misbehave. And their armed forces have gays serving in them and they're doing quite well. And I don't see any reason why we have to discriminate against men and women who want to serve their country.

KING: Colonel -- Lieutenant Colonel Maginnis, why encourage lying?

LT. COL. ROBERT MAGINNIS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): I agree, we shouldn't encourage lying. Well, I agree, we shouldn't encourage lying, quite frankly, Larry. And "don't ask/don't tell" is not really the law, unfortunately. It's -- it's a Clinton administration aberration of the law. But that's what we're dealing with. You know, the fact is, Larry, when we went -- back in '93, when I was working with this 50 man group, we looked at all the data that was available. They didn't do the extensive research that apparently Secretary Gates and Admiral Mullen are suggesting. I think that's a great idea. And I endorse what they're about to do.

However, you know, we went with the best information we had. We convinced the Congress -- and the Congress was a Democratic Congress at that time, Larry. They wrote 15 very specific findings. Now, if those findings are no longer valid, throw it out. But if they're still valid, then we need to keep the law because it supports military readiness.

KING: Lieutenant Choi, why, in your opinion, are they no longer valid?

LT. DAN CHOI, NATIONAL GUARD: Well, I think when we are in a time of war and for those who are currently serving in the counter- insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan, we learn a very important lesson -- we need every skilled soldier we can get. Any good leader that's serving right now will tell you that. And to kick out Arabic and Farsi linguists in a time of war, I think -- especially those who refuse to lie about who they are or refuse to lie about who they love, I think that's an absolute mistake.

KING: Tony Perkins, you will admit that there are crosses and Jewish stars at Normandy and other battlefields that -- that, symbolically, there are gay soldiers buried there?

TONY PERKINS, PRESIDENT, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: It's not a question...

KING: Doesn't that tell you something about their desire to serve their country?

PERKINS: It's not a question of whether or not they have a desire to serve nor is it a question whether they can serve. They certainly can serve in the military today. It's a question of the behavior of those who identify themselves as homosexual.

I think the question, Larry, has been and raised, is what has changed since 1993, when this policy was implemented by the Clinton administration?

We've had 14 Congressional hearings since then, all coming to the same conclusion -- that this would undermine unit cohesion and military readiness.

And so even -- even the -- the Democratic chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, Ike Skelton, says he's opposed to changing this policy. There's members of the Joint Chief -- Chiefs that are opposed to being -- to changing this policy.

KING: Well, what...

PERKINS: So it's not a foregone conclusion that this is going to be changed.

KING: What is the fear, that the gay person will come on to a straight person or the straight person will be embarrassed to take -- what's the fear?

PERKINS: Well, I think we've seen the same thing when we -- we have to be very careful with how we integrate the sexes in the military, and I think a lot of people don't understand, present company excepted here, but the military is a different environment. There is very few occasions where you're living in the same room and showering with 80 men. Having been an enlisted man in the Marine Corps, there is no privacy. Officers have a little more privacy than enlisted men.

So especially when you're in training situations, where you have an individual that has the power, really, of life and death, in some circumstances, over individuals, there can be a lot of coercion. And this can be a very dangerous situation and very intimidating situation. It's just not healthy for the well-being of the military.

KING: General Clark, how do you respond to that?

CLARK: I think the standard is exactly what Tony suggested it should be, is don't misbehave. But, unfortunately, that's not what the Don't Ask, Don't Tell rule is about. It's about witch hunts, It's about tattle-tales. It's about a lot of pressure to cover things up, and not be seen, and not know who you are. So I think the standard ought to be, don't misbehave.

There is a lot of coercion in training. There's no doubt about it. It happens between men. It happens between men and women. It happens between men and men. And it happens between women and women. That's what it is when someone has power over someone else. It's not tolerated to misbehave in the civilian community, and it shouldn't be tolerated in the military. And that should be the end of it. People should be entitled to be who they are. And the standard is don't misbehave.

KING: We'll ask Lieutenant Colonel Maginnis why it shouldn't be based just on behavior right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: OK, Lieutenant Colonel Maginnis, why shouldn't it just be bad behavior? Hetero to homo, homo to hetero, whatever, bad behavior should be expulsion.

MAGINNIS: Larry, we have a lot of laws and we do prosecute as many people as we can when we find a case. The military has a very unique culture, and we need to understand that, and the Congress certainly needs to take that into consideration. I'm sure Admiral Mullen, when he has the group working on this, will consider that.

Back in '93, Larry, we went through all the issues on cohesion, the bonding, the privacy issues, the values, and so forth. All of those contributed to the law. The law is very specific with regard to its findings on sexual behavior. Can you enforce this? Probably. Don't know exactly. That's why it's important to go out and ask the soldiers and the families, which I wholly endorse. I think this is the best thing I heard from the secretary today.

KING: Is it possible, lieutenant colonel, that times have changed? This is 17 years later.

MAGINNIS: Times have changed, Larry, but the military's culture has not radically changed, because it's a time of war. So it's possible that, you know, we could change this, but be very, very careful because you have a military that's defending us now. You don't want to do something rash and create a risk that you don't want -- you just can't put back in the bottle.

KING: Lieutenant Choi, does this policy personally hurt you?

CHOI: Of course, Larry. When we can all just talk about policy, I think that's fine for a great show in the evening. But for me, all of this really does affect my life. That hearing today was talking about my job.

But you know how it really affects me personally -- and I think personally for all of us that are here -- we're wearing our rings. And on my West Point ring it says "honor." On the first day at West Point, I learned the honor codes: a cadet will not lie. You will not lie. You will not tolerate those who lie.

But when I tell the truth -- I told the truth, obviously, in different means. I went on national TV and told the truth. I went to drill next weekend and we went on the rifle range, and as we were cleaning our weapons, one of my soldiers comes up to me and says, so was that you talking on TV? I said, yeah, that was me. It was a little bit of a surprise, because it was an infantry unit. But by the time we were done cleaning our weapons, he said, all right, then. When do we get to meet your boyfriend?

To think that there is all this fear, on a policy level, and people talking -- it makes for a nice sound bite. But the reality on the ground is, we're ready for people to tell the truth. And I think it insults our soldiers to assume they can't handle the truth.

KING: Tony, doesn't it bother you to hear Lieutenant Choi say that?

PERKINS: No, Larry. I mean, I certainly -- we've had a chance to talk and I have great respect for him and his service to the country, as I do for every man and woman, regardless of their sexual orientation. But we don't make public policy based upon personal situations. We make public policy for what's best for the nation.

You know, what the president has done is he has urged the Joint Chiefs to make a change at a time of war, undermining, potentially, our nation's security and the effectiveness of our military, and quite possibly opening the door to the draft once again, because we've seen that there are men and women who do serve in the military who have expressed reservations about staying in the military if this change comes about.

So there are some -- there are ramifications to policy decisions. Unintended consequences, sometimes, but I think we need to look those through. I'm not sure the Joint Chiefs -- particularly the chief -- can tackle this issue when he's already said -- the secretary has said they're going to carry out the orders of the commander in chief, and that is to make sure this policy is done away with, which, by the way, is troubling to me, in that the military would be undermining the very thing they protect, and that is the rule of law.

KING: General Clark, doesn't the military need people?

CLARK: The military needs people. And Larry, I do think attitudes have changed. I was a division commander with the First Cavalry Division when the last policy was adopted back in '93. I knew what the soldiers felt. I watched it over the years that I remained in the service. I talked to people about it. The attitudes changed even in the course of a few years. And they've changed more now.

But I would caution this. If this becomes a political football, and Democrats line up on one side and Republicans on the other, those opinion polls that we're talking about, and polling soldiers won't mean a darn thing again. It will just in flame the forces.

I think the standard is that Soldiers and Marines and Airmen and Sailors have to obey the law. They have to uphold the standards they've again given. They have to be responsible. They have to tell the truth. And they should be who they are. And that means we should accept human beings for who they are and honor and love them, because we need them in this country.

KING: Lieutenant Colonel Maginnis, would you rather have no gays in the military, period?

MAGINNIS: Well, we have gays right now, Larry. I don't think anybody denies that.

KING: But would you like to see a law that says no gays?

MAGINNIS: Well, the current law is a double pretense. Homosexuals like Dan have to pretend that they're not homosexual to serve. And the military pretends that they don't mind. The law is clear. The military obeys the law of the land. The Congress said, this is the law, you obey it. They salute and they drive on.

Larry, at the same time, going back to what General Clark was saying, you know, we dismiss a quarter of a million young soldiers every year for all sorts of reasons. About one-third of one percent fit the category of homosexuals. Every soldier that walks out the door is a loss. But every one of those decisions is made on the best interest of the military, based on the laws that Congress has given us. They either change the laws, after considering all the requisite information that the Pentagon hopefully will provide without bias. Then we can get on and do the important business of fighting the wars of this country.

KING: Lieutenant Choi, have you thought of quitting?

CHOI: What kind of question is that, Larry? Why would you ever ask a soldier to quit?

KING: Because they don't want you if you admit who you are.

CHOI: Well, I think that the morals that you're taught and the values that you're taught at the very first day of your basic training, that's what you fall back on whenever you have a gray area, or whenever you have a difficult decision. And I think anybody here in this can understand that. We've learned -- my dad is a Southern Baptist minister. And he taught me from the very first, I don't care what you did, just tell me the truth.

Those are the values that we fall back on. My instinct right now? I was given the chance to quit, and I would most likely hold onto all of my benefits. As a combat veteran, I think I've earned some of those. But I said no, I'm putting it all on the line, because I learned on that very first day that you tell the truth, and there can be consequences. There can be risks. But, for me, being solidly sound in those things that I was taught from day one, I'm confident that I made the right decision.

KING: We're going to do a lot more on this. I thank you all very much..."