A Denver "Living Room Conversation" with Wes and Gert
Submitted by Stan4Clark on October 21, 2005 - 2:11am.
From the Diaries -- Brent
October 20, 2005
WOW!
[Note: I’m not in the habit of calling Gen. Clark “Wes” in his presence. The military part of me requires me to call him “Sir” or “General” when talking to him.]
Okay, I’ll cut to the chase rather than keep you in suspense ‘til I get to the highlight of the evening, at least to me.
In talking about the Democratic Party and the 2004 election cycle, Clark said that the Kerry campaign had changed the message every week. “The same people did the same thing to me, and I’M NOT GOING TO LET THAT HAPPEN NEXT TIME! I’ll have a constant message.” (I think the word was “constant,” but it may have been “consistent.”)
Background
About a week ago I learned that a unique opportunity would be presented to me. Gen. Clark would be in Colorado on business, and would have a free evening. In cooperation with Diana Rogalle (campaign and WesPAC financial guru), former co-chair of Colorado for Clark Jim Posfut arranged a small, intimate WesPAC fundraiser for loyal Clarkies. It was advertised as a “living room conversation.” Clark and the attendees would engage in a free-flowing discussion. The icing on the cake was having Gert along.
The event lasted a little over an hour and-a-half. There’s no way I can repeat even close to all of what Clark said. In general (ha ha), the topics were Iraq, the Democratic Party, health care, and education. He spoke rapidly, with every phrase a gem. If I had tried to take complete notes, I would have missed too much. Plus I was taking pictures.
What He Said
Clark briefly recounted how he came to be so engaged. The 2000 elections, both in terms of the people who won and in terms of the controversies surrounding Bush’s “victory” -- along with the goings-on after the administration took office -- became the frequent topic of conversation between Gert and him. “Every night was an assault on [Amrican values].”
When Clark mentioned his stint as an analyst at CNN, he reflected, “I didn’t want to be controversial. I was already controversial enough.”
Iraq
“We should “take the focus off of Iraq.” Instead, he continued, we should “focus on the region…It’s not Iraq, it’s not Iran, it’s Al Qaeda.” We must keep a “big picture focus.”
“If we leave Iraq [now], we lose the leverage” we have vis à vis the other countries in the area.
“The key is for politicians not to be political” about Iraq and the war.
He said that his Democratic radio response last Saturday came up at the last minute, and that the DNC specifically wanted a message such as his to counterbalance the Russ Feingolds in the party.
I’ve kind of lost the context of this statement: “The road to Baghdad is through Jerusalem.”
The Democratic Party
Regarding the 2008 presidential elections, we should be “talking about the Party, not the candidates”.
Voting research says that 60-70K% of the votes are “based on the image of the party, not the candidate.”
Clark told a story of some meeting he attended in which a group of Democrats sat around a table and went one-by-one articulating each person’s hot button. One was health care, another was choice, a third was education, a fourth was Iraq, and so on. Clark said, in effect that that was the Democrats’ problem. The gist was that the Party should be about none of those things and all of them. The Party should be about the “common good” and the “national interest.” It’s the “national interest over specific issues…What’s right for the country as a whole.” Democrats are too guilty of policy wonkism.
“If things in the Democratic Party platform can’t sell in all fifty states, they shouldn’t be in the platform” at all.
His example was gun control. Not very many people vote based on gun control, so at the national/presidential level we shouldn’t be talking about it. People running for Congress in certain areas need to talk about gun control, but not as a Party issue.
Other Quotable Quotes
On health care, we should have standards for the way medicine is practiced. “Airlines can’t be run the way health care is run in this country.”
“This country is in a fight for the future.” We’ve never been at such a crossroads before.
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Boy, do I wish that the whole country could see and hear Clark discuss such a broad spectrum of issues. As I said above, every phrase was a gem.
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Clark noted that most of the people doing what he does hold elective office and that the taxpayers are financing their activities to have a voice in the future. He said that WesPAC’s basic overhead costs run some $18,000 a month.
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This event was a dream realized in two ways: I’ve always thought that the ideal event would be something like this – relatively small and intimate. Plus, I’d wanted to get my erstwhile U.S. Senate candidate Mike Miles (West Pointer, Ranger, State Department diplomat, educator) and Clark in the same room at the same time for some 26 months. The pic I had taken of the three of us will be a lifetime treasure.
Also attending was my current Congressional candidate Ed Perlmutter. Mike supported Howard Dean from the outset, and Ed was a Kerryite all along. But both told me that they were beyond impressed, and learned things they can immediately apply. (Note: When Jim Polsfut explored running for the same seat as Ed’s, I downloaded and printed the entire Issues section at Clark04.com and put them in a notebook with index tabs by major issue category. It completely filled a 2 1/2” D-ring loose-leaf notebook. When Jim decided not to run, I gave the notebook to Ed. He told me tonight that he’s been reading his “Clark briefing book” and has gotten tons of ideas, many on things he had yet to flesh out in his own campaign.)
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You can see a slideshow of my 18 pics here.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
BE THE CHANGE you wish to see in the world.
If not us, WHO? If not now, WHEN?
Thanks. Yes, he continually emphasizes the need for a regional solution, including the Israel-Palestine issue.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
BE THE CHANGE you wish to see in the world.
If not us, WHO? If not now, WHEN?
... but to what the neocons think.
Here's the Clark quote from the article "Bring in the World".
The United States must also actively push the Middle East road map, with its goal of a two-state solution. The Bush administration cannot simply articulate a plan and expect the Israelis and Palestinians to follow--that clearly has not worked. Instead, it must hold serious and sustained dialogue between the two sides and among the so-called front-line states to hammer out details of a peace process. The road to Baghdad runs through Jerusalem, not, as the neoconservatives unquestioningly believe, the other way around.
You'd be taking them to the Better Business Bureau if you bought a washing machine the way we went into the war in Iraq. Wes Clark, CNN Aug 17 2003
Needs to be seen by everyone! I've spent my 10 on it :-)
You'd be taking them to the Better Business Bureau if you bought a washing machine the way we went into the war in Iraq. Wes Clark, CNN Aug 17 2003
Something I forgot to include:
Gen. Clark talked about the 2008 primary season. He thinks that Iowa will still lead off, but with some likelihood that Arkansas and South Carolina will join Iowa. New Hampshire will be next, but maybe along with one or more Rocky Mountain states thrown in. He mentioned New Mexico and even Colorado.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
BE THE CHANGE you wish to see in the world.
If not us, WHO? If not now, WHEN?
.....every morning even before I've had my first cuppa.
You have lifted me up with this, Stan. Thanks so much for sharing.
George Bush has had his day and he's bollixed it up.
Hello Stan.....
Sounds like you had a great time! I have a question: Was this a fundraiser and if so, how much was raised? Was there a price of admission? Or was it a "meet and greet" of potential funders? Thanks!
Citizen
...to the tune of $500 a pop. It probably raised $10,000 or so since there were about 25 people there.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
BE THE CHANGE you wish to see in the world.
If not us, WHO? If not now, WHEN?
it sounds as though you had quite a special night, Stan! Ahhh.....that General is so brilliant!
Did Gert say anything that you might remember and also like to share with us? I think she is impressive in her own right, too.
Thanks for sharing this account and the pictures, too!
...when I wondered if the right Clark was running. What a magnificent lady! Gracious, gorgeous, never met a stranger. (Kind of belies my Oklahoma biases about Yankees, LOL!)
I didn't talk with Gert at any length. They bugged out about 7:45 after arriving at 6:15 'cause Wes had a 6:15 a.m. plane to Virginia for the "Clash of the Titans." Gert was staying over for an address to a veterans support group of some kind this evening.
When asked if she was going to be in Washington for the meeting on 11/15, she said she didn't know yet.
Oh, both Wes and Gert said that C-SPAN was recording the "Clash," but didn't know when it'd be on.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
BE THE CHANGE you wish to see in the world.
If not us, WHO? If not now, WHEN?
Oh, both Wes and Gert said that C-SPAN was recording the "Clash," but didn't know when it'd be on
George Bush has had his day and he's bollixed it up.
Thanks Stan! Great account. He's so good, isn't he? And I agree that Gert is quite impressive in her own right. Lucky you!
“If we leave Iraq [now], we lose the leverage” we have vis à vis the other countries in the area."
This ties in with his comments recently on FOX.
You’ve got 150,000 American troops there (in Iraq). What’s different today than what we had 5 years or 10 years ago with Iran is; we are in that region. There’s no question. We’re there with 150,000 troops. That changes the dynamics on the ground. We should use the presence of those troops to empower our diplomatic activities in the region.
I guess Wes sees this as a chance to put pressure on Iran to negotiate with us. Interestingly, I see that Rice is now calling for negotiatiations with Iran.
Thank you so much for sharing this with us. It's a shot of inspiration. And I'm thrilled that Wes referred to "next time" he won't be letting his advisers determine his slogans!! I'm going to contribute today!
Leadership means lifting people up. --Wes Clark
) but it was well worth it. I had planned to max out anyway for the 11/15 WesPAC meeting.
after viewing your great pics and report. Thanks, Stan!!
The General gets it right. Competence--What a concept!
Thanks.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
BE THE CHANGE you wish to see in the world.
If not us, WHO? If not now, WHEN?
Thank you for this!
I too have a hard time calling General Clark Wes. I was raised to call people Mr and Mrs as a form of respect. I guess that influence from my childhood is deeply ingrained - it's just a form of repsect to me and since he's not a personal friend and has never said, call me Wes, it's just more natural for me to refer to him as General Clark.
Sounds like a very special evening and that's so cool you've been so proactive in getting General Clark's message out to potential candidates in your state! Brilliant!
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places if you look at it right. -Hunter/Garcia
This might happen one of these days:
Stan, call me 'Wes.'
OK. I will, General.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
BE THE CHANGE you wish to see in the world.
If not us, WHO? If not now, WHEN?
People don't do events like that around here. I guess we're too jaded.
I'm not in the habit of calling people sir, but even I can't help but call him that.
“The same people did the same thing to me, and I’M NOT GOING TO LET THAT HAPPEN NEXT TIME! "
"
“If things in the Democratic Party platform can’t sell in all fifty states, they shouldn’t be in the platform” at all." ..... I wonder if he can really do this with the south.
Stan, I'm so happy for you! Photos are gems and you obviously had a great time! Kudos! :)
Thanks for the Post! :) Glad to hear that Clark's out there in CO, ...and all over actually!
As for the "Feingold - Get Out Now" advocates. That's a big issue, and a difficult one to confront, it seems. But the Dem Party must easily communicate the "consequences," if we leave Iraq without success. I posted the reasons that Larry Wilkerson highlighted in his talk. Dems (and Repubs) must communicate this message.
from my blog: http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/1919
Wilkerson highlighted some key reasons, but overall it was strategic.
Strategically, Iraq is more important the Vietnam.
- Turkish/Kurd conflict: The Turks are currently engaged against the militant arm of the Kurds, the PKK, who are considered a "terrorist organization". The PKK have been seeking independence mostly in northern areas of Turkey, but have also been very active along the Iraqi/Turkish border, since it's believed that the Iraqi Kurds have been providing covert militant support to this group. The US has been mostly stabilizing this conflict, but our loss of diplomatic clout has now been destabilizing this effort. Consequently, I reason that the PKK may be engaging in greater activity. But regardless of whether Turkey is NATO/US Ally, Turkey, Syria and Iran do have a military alliance to suppress any movement towards independence by the Kurds in Iraq.
- America's economy is based on oil: Wilkerson compared our economy to our appetite for SUV's. We consume 60% of the worlds oil. unfortunately, this alone will force us back to resolve any Middle East Crisis; but worse yet, should a regional war arise, America will have no choice, but to enter the conflict with even greater financial and military commitments.
- Iraq is NOW a breeding ground for terrorism: Wilkerson said that Iraq was originally, never about terrorism; he indicated that Bush's WHIG made it into an AQ breeding ground. Leaving Iraq, now, without a success strategy and stable legitimate government would make it into Afghanistan after the Russians left. Interestingly, he particularly refered to Condi Rice's role in it, as NSA to President Bush.
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"Debate, Dialogue, Discussion, Disagreement - that's not wrong -that's not unpatriotic, that's one of the highest forms of patriotism and love of country, and we need to say it!" - Gen. Wesley Clark (US Ret.)
and every bit of encouragement we get from General Clark is so helpful in these difficult times. Thank you so much, Stan.
LOUD AMEN ON THIS IN PARTICULAR:
The Party should be about the “common good” and the “national interest.” It’s the “national interest over specific issues…What’s right for the country as a whole.” Democrats are too guilty of policy wonkism.
“If things in the Democratic Party platform can’t sell in all fifty states, they shouldn’t be in the platform” at all.
I do think the KERRY camp played copy cat of Wes to some extent during the primaries. I wish party leaders were smart enough to adopt this philosophy and Wes' tax plan. We'd win for sure...that is if votes were actually counted.
Well, he's certainly woking on it, isn't he?
I'm hopeful that he will scale back his business activities some and do even more chit collecting in '06.
And I'd still like to see the WesPAC-scheduled but grassroots-organized "Securing ALL of America Tour." (In case you don't remember, my idea was for WesPAC -- probably with help from the grassroots project -- to make materials available for downloading and printing, set up a schedule, develop a cookbook for fundraisers and townhall meetings, and then turn the grassroots loose to make them heppen.)
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
BE THE CHANGE you wish to see in the world.
If not us, WHO? If not now, WHEN?
I have been hoping for some 'official' flyers/pamphlets to hand out at events, and do tabling at local events. Email signup sheet to get people engaged. And we need a Newsletter. That was proposed on the first Wespac site. Keep supporters and potential supporters informed and updated.
"...the measure of success is not 'Can you win?' It's 'Can you get your ideas adopted?' " ~ Wes Clark
MOI? Go out of my way to make all Clarkies insanely jealous and green with envy? Golly gee whiz. You want me to keep everything all to myself?
By the way, ForClark4Ever, when the campaign ended I was searching for new names for a Yahoo! group. I established several on that theme: WesClark4Ever, WesleyClark4Ever, WesClarkForever, and WesleyClarkForever. I still have those groups set up, but unused. I ended up going with the Clark08 group. (Which now has 422 members.)
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
BE THE CHANGE you wish to see in the world.
If not us, WHO? If not now, WHEN?
Electoral politics and legislatures are all about tactics, and most are lawyers. NONE of that trains one to fly at 70,000 feet, or to have the luxury of a strategic thought, let alone the training to think about Strategery...
that I'm not in Colorado right now. I would have happily shelled out the money for something like that. That's really cool that you got him and Mike Miles together. I'd like to hear more about that meeting.
I became a Miles supporter because he reminded me so much of Wes, when I saw him at a Kucinich meetup shortly after Wes had dropped out. It always seemed like there should be a natural affinity between the two of them.
"I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in." George McGovern
I felt exactly the same way as soon as I met Mike in August of 2003.
Here was what happened:
I wanted to be a Clark delegate to Boston. I researched the process, and realized that it all started at the local level. I had to be the "Clark guy" in my county.
So I designed my own bumber stickers ("Make America All It Can Be! / Wesley K. Clark / * * For President * *") and tri-fold folders, and ordered hundreds of mini-Clark bars.
My first public outing was at Lakewood On Parade, the parade in my city.
My schtick was, "Would you like a Clark bar for energy?" "Sure." "Well, you have to take one of my flyers, too."
Well...I noticed all these people lining up for the parade wearing dark blue T-shirts saying "Mike Miles for U.S. Senate" on the front and "Be the Change!" on the back. So I randomly picked out a guy to ask, "Who's Mike Miles?" "Well," the gentleman replied, "I'm Mike Miles."
So for the next 10 minutes or so I tried to sell Wes to Mike and he tried to sell himself to me. Which he did. I checked out his website and signed up on the spot.
After the Clark campaign ended I jumped in with both feet and became his driver for junkets around the state.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
BE THE CHANGE you wish to see in the world.
If not us, WHO? If not now, WHEN?
I'm green with envy. it's my idea of a perfect evening as well!
I've heard of General Clark using the phrase "the road to Baghdad runs through Jerusalem' before. If I remember correctly the sense of it is that the neocons thought they could solve Israel's problems by overthrowing Saddam and setting up a friendly government in Iraq. i.e. they believe the road to Jerusalem runs through Baghdad.
Clark contends that the US would never be able to sort out Iraq without first sorting out the problems between Israel and Palestine because that is the source of so much anti-American feeling in the Middle East.
Hopefully I've given a fair representation of the clark position behind the phrase.
I'll see if I can turn up some links. Or maybe someone else will beat me to it.