TPMCafe Day 2: Ending the "G. I. Tax"
Submitted by John on August 30, 2005 - 9:04am.
Just posted. Read General Clark's second post on Ending the GI Tax on the Table For One.
Lead section
Thanks so much to all of you who participated in yesterday's discussion about the situation in Iraq. I appreciate the healthy, spirited debate, and I hope it's an indicator of the kind of conversations we'll have this week. I'm sorry that I wasn't able to answer every question, but hopefully we'll have more time to flesh some of this out as the week continues.
I'll be spending most of today in Wisconsin, visiting with the people of the state and discussing where our nation needs to go in the future.
Today, I'll be traveling to the Wisconsin state capital in Madison to meet with Lt. Governor Barbara Lawton and State Representative Bob Turner, two of today's most impressive leaders in Wisconsin's fine tradition of progressive politics. We'll be talking about the need for a new GI Bill of Rights to honor the sacrifices being made by the men and women of our armed forces and their families. This is not a new idea.
In 1944, the Congress enacted the original GI Bill first drafted by the American Legion in order to honor the Greatest Generation, who ultimately won World War II. In doing so, the Federal Government supported our returning troops with educational benefits, loans to buy a home, and medical assistance. In fact nearly 8 million veterans went to school under the GI Bill. In effect the GI jumpstarted our economy and created a strong middle class. And in each military conflict since, we have honored the service of our soldiers through a new GI bill.
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Re: Ending the "GI Tax" (5.00 / 3) (#9)
by Reg NYC on Aug 30, 2005 -- 10:57:53 AM ESTSir, I admire the fact that you always see the human element in every situation. You have a kind of compassion that's sorely laking in Washington these days. These benefits are sorely needed.
This may not apply to the particular benefits you propose, but I'm of two minds about certain benefits for veterans. On one hand I think that men and women who put themselves in harms way for their country should be given everything they need - an education, health care for themselves and their families, citizenship for those who don't have it. On the other hand, I think sending the message to those who come from the working class that the only way they can have those things is to put themselves in harms way is not right. It seems that recruiters have used the benefits to attract young people who may not have known what they were getting into.
Can this be handled in such a way that that rewards are brave men and women in uniform without expoiting the working class?
Thank you for your time.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Ending the "GI Tax" (5.00 / 6) (#21)
by wclark on Aug 30, 2005 -- 12:03:31 PMFirst, I fault the President for not calling for a national commitment to service, to support the armed forces in particular. He did not do so in the beginning, and he continues to fail to do so to this day.
But the consequence is that the military has been left to its own means and devices to raise the number of soldiers it needs to meet its appropriation and direction from Congress. And it's doing so using the same tools and techniques the volunteer army always has.
Primarily they are motivations centering around skill development, maturity, and financial inducements. These are always the three drawing cards for recruiting into the armed forces. And they do certainly have powerful reach into ordinary American families who are struggling to pay the bills for college, health insurance, and so on.
The first alternative is that the President should put out a stronger call for leadership and national service. But ultimately we as a nation determined over 35 years ago that we were going to commit to an all volunteer force, and not surprisingly, that force has relied on financial inducements.
The question you're raising is more fundamental. It's a call to national service. It's a call I believe in very strongly and something that I talked about during the campaign. I hope that every American feels an obligation to serve their country, whether or not it be in uniform.
Wes
WesPAC -- Securing America's Future--------------------------------------
wasn't that an answer to YOUR question? Or am I confused?
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest places if you look at it right.
--Hunter/Garcia
My question was very general,.. no pun of course;)
But, Clark addressed your question regarding the fundamental issue concerning "recruitment" issue, because he argued tha the real issue is about the conviction of why soldiers should enlist --- a patriotic call to service. I think the GI Bill of Rights will help inspire this form of service to country and convey to the Armed Forces that America values their conviction.
You gave him an opportunity to plug one of his issues from the campaign too (as you see). He linked to an issues page at Clark04.
I'm all for the new GI Bill of Rights- it is high time we treated our veterans with the respect they've earned & that they deserve.
But so too, it is time we treat ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS like... citizens! Of a great & wealthy nation, and stop tying medical benefits to the whims of employment rather than to citizenship.
I know General Clark has (as usual!) an intense schedule this week. I'm so hoping that even with such a compressed schedule, he has the opportunity to address some domestic issues. (I say this almost shamefacedly, as international events are so pressing & so devastating.)
For example, even some commentary on true Homeland Security & the role of the Guard in disaster preparedness & response seem like particularly timely issues this week.
Can we clone him?!
Wes Clark: American Eagle
It would squash the "he only does foreign policy" meme (is that how you use that word? Never am sure...LOL!!)
Very very happy to see you here BlueMoon!!
Gonna go read the new posts over at TPMCafe now!
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest places if you look at it right.
--Hunter/Garcia
Hola Jen- been a crazy week here, am eager to speak with you all on Friday. Made a TPM log-in last week in anticipation but am having problems logging in, so I can't really weigh in over there.
What an exciting week- General Clark is all over the place! There's someone over there mumbling about an "entitlement" program- that drives me crazy when what should be an automatic benefit of American citizenship (a basic level of access to health care) is described as "an entitlement" but like I said- I can't log-in over there. That's where this came from. I'm otherwise enjoying the conversation & of course the GI Bill of Rights cannot be talked about enough by itself!
But- as one of them currently- I'm always mindful of the millions- that's "millions" of Americans who lack health insurance.
Wes Clark: American Eagle
We figured out we knew each other on DU one day, but now I'm drawing a blank... arggg. she's a regular here but doesn't go by Sparkly...
She just posted a great post/question for General Clark at TPMCafe.
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest places if you look at it right.
--Hunter/Garcia
"It's time to protect our nation and take it forward. No party can do it better." - Gen. Wes Clark to Arkansas Democrats, 8/13/05
Animals are Gods Gift to Us.
Greetings,
Happen to be in the virtual neighborhood, so I decided to stop by.
Could not get in by my old name. It did however, take me a little time to naviagate through the new style password. Not as computer savy as I would like to be.
Later,
Formly known as Independent
We're creating pretend General Discussion threads until something else comes along. Go to "Best of the Blogs" to find the current one, or click on some of the "recent comments" which will usually take you to the current GD thread. Once you find it, add the opening poster (pretend person) "Just Talking" to your buddy list, then you can click "track" and you'll see the GD threads (which are the GD threads).
Welcome home! Ask questions freely and usually someone will have an answer!
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest places if you look at it right.
--Hunter/Garcia
If anyone's up to it LiberalVoice at #43 need some talking to. I'll try to come up with something in a calm, respectful manner, but I'm not sure exactly how to approach this person...
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest places if you look at it right.
--Hunter/Garcia
I know Wes has good answers for #43, but I hate to see him give him or her the courtesy of a reply after s/he is so rude. You know? Like, "I don't know who you are used to speaking to in that tone, but don't use it with me," is what I'd prefer to hear.
Edit/Update: On reread, it's not that bad. She just sounds like she's yelling. The poster above her posted the initial point, and it is a valid comment. Maybe Wes will answer the original comment above hers. That would be good. (I'm calling her her; I don't know.)
(Trying out the edit feature:) )
She's basically asking questions as if he's running a campaign and that's not what the TPMCafe gig is about. If she's interested, I gave her enough information that she can learn as much as we know about General Clark and have all her questions answered. Question is will she read? :)
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest places if you look at it right.
--Hunter/Garcia
to LiberalVoice convinced her of what we already know! That feels good.
My answer was #51 and she replied to that at #55. :D
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest places if you look at it right.
--Hunter/Garcia
by cscs on Aug 30, 2005 -- 10:29:01 AM EST
I think this is a great idea. As you said, it's up to the Republicans. Is there bipartisan support for this bill? Or is the Estate Tax more important to Bill Frist and Tom DeLay?
Force the Republicans to choose: Support The Troops or Tax Cuts for the Rich.Dissent Protects Democracy
Re: Ending the "GI Tax" (4.80 / 10) (#22)
by wclark on Aug 30, 2005 -- 12:07:47 PM EST
Rocket and cscs --Thanks for your questions. The new GI Bill of Rights represents the hopes and dreams of all Americans. If the Republicans have a problem with it, it's a problem of "not invented here." And so for partisan reasons, their leadership will probably oppose the package. But as the failures of the Administration to support veterans become more powerful in the public mind, we can all anticipate that in some piecemeal fashion, the Republicans will try to move in our direction.
This is about leadership, and Democrats are leaders in taking care of veterans and their families. Republicans will be followers.Wes
WesPAC -- Securing America's Future
Nothing is more American; nothing is more patriotic than speaking out, questioning authority and holding your leaders accountable. Wes Clark
Today's posting is up, who will be the first five to post a comment? The first comment will make it an interesting dialogue...a Liberal against our providing benefits to GI's. Thanks to Rocket and CSCS for stepping up.