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The Honorable Newt Gingrich (right) and Lt. Col. Oliver North debate for the
right in Regent University's third annual Clash of the Titans (TM) debate,
Oct. 21.

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va.—It was four of the nation’s most recognized military and
political experts pitted against one another during Regent University’s
explosive third annual Clash of the Titans™ debate.  On Oct. 21, a sold-out
audience witnessed the Honorable Newt Gingrich join forces with Lieutenant
Colonel Oliver North to wage war with the General Wesley Clark and Paul
Begala alliance over the question, “Is the Bush strategy working in Iraq?”

Serving as moderator was veteran war correspondent and former anchor for NBC
News and MSNBC, Forrest Sawyer.

The event drew a number of elected officials including Congressman Robert C.
“Bobby” Scott, Congressman Randy Forbes, and Congresswoman Thelma Drake, as
well as many local delegates and officials.  Also on hand were several dozen
uniformed military guests.

Since its inception in 2003, Regent University's Clash of the Titans™ has
been recognized as one of the biggest and best events of its kind in
Virginia.  The series brings together pundits from the left and the right to
debate hot political and cultural issues.

Paul Begala (background) and Gen. Wesley Clark represent the left.

During last year’s debate, former U.S. Vice-President Al Gore and former
Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole debated “Election 2004: What's at Stake for
America?”  The event, which occurred just 11 days before the presidential
election, received national coverage.

Given Iraq’s military and political concerns, few were more qualified to
participate in this year’s Clash of the Titans™ than Gingrich, North, Clark,
and Begala.  Both Clark and North have had distinguished military careers.
Gingrich and Begala, two of the sharpest minds in politics, each made
enormous political impacts throughout the 90s.

“The debate was everything we had hoped it would be,” said debate organizer
Baxter Ennis.  “It was intellectually stimulating, passionate and humorous.
I believe that everyone who attended really enjoyed it.”

Gingrich fired opening salvos.  Arguing on behalf of the Bush strategy along
with North, Gingrich said that leading up to the war, every major
intelligence service in the world considered Saddam Hussein dangerous.

“It is also true that President Putin of Russia said publicly he had brought
the head of Russian intelligence into the White House to say to the
President [that] Saddam Hussein is planning to strike against the United
States with terrorist actions,” he said. “That’s a public fact, this is not
a theoretical.”

Clark, arguing against the Bush strategy along with Begala, disagreed with
the degree of threat posed by Saddam.  Clark said that joint staff officers
told him 10 days after 9/11 that the Bush administration was planning to
invade Iraq.

Gingrich defends the Bush strategy in Iraq.

“I said, ‘But why?’ They said, ‘Well, um, we don’t know, but if the only
tool you’ve got is a hammer, then every problem has to look like a nail,’”
said Clark.  “And they proceeded to explain that the administration really
didn’t know what to do about the War on Terror, but did want to take apart a
regime to show that we were powerful …”

North said that Iraq needs to be seen in a broader context in the War on
Terror.  He added that one way to defend against terrorism is to diminish
the conditions that attract young people to want to join a jihad and become
a martyr.

“Today, in Iraq, there are more children going to school, particularly
girls, than ever before in history,” said North.  “They’re not learning
hatred, they’re learning how to do math, and science, and chemistry, and
physics, in a country that has more than likely more oil wealth than the
neighborhood, even in Saudi Arabia. … It is not a country that is going to
use its oil wealth, as some have used it, to further the cause of terrorism,
if we do stay the course.”

Begala said that the previous policy of  sanctions, inspections, bombings,
and no-fly zones were sufficient to contain Saddam, and that al-Qaeda, a
bigger threat, had no link with Saddam.

“They [the Bush administration] told you that Iraq was a threat, a unique
threat, an urgent threat, a grave threat, a growing threat, an imminent
threat, a nuclear threat, a biological threat— none of that is true,” Begala
exclaimed.  “So now, here we are, our heads stuck in this fence.”

Things heated up when former MSNBC colleagues North and Begala discussed Abu
Ghraib.

“Do you believe that torture was the policy of the administration or the
armed forces of the United States at Abu Ghraib?” North asked.

“No, I believe it was the responsibility of the president of the United
States who sent those men and women into that situation for which they were
not properly trained, equipped, or backed-up,” Begala replied.

Clark jumped in, and the issue escalated.  Clark took issue with what he
said were memos that came from the White House that basically said that the
Geneva Convention didn’t apply.

Clark told his fellow officer that the military that he served in for 34
years “didn’t torture people.  It didn’t abuse them. It didn’t punch out
prisoners when it captured them.”  Clark blamed the guidance  from the top
for undercutting the armed forces’ training.

“We never had the investigation, but I’ll tell you what, if you believe
everything that has happened at Abu Ghraib, and at Guantanamo, and the rest
of it, is the responsibility of a colonel or a corporal or a couple of
sergeant’s somewhere,” said Clark, “then I’ve got a bridge or two I’d like
you to buy!”

Later in the debate, Gingrich said that following the assassination of a
leading Lebanese political figure, the Bush administration played an
important role in getting the French to head a United Nations’ investigation
of Syria.

Following Clark’s reply, sparks flew.  Clark said that he was delighted that
the administration has seen “the error of its ways,” and is starting to use
the United Nations, the French, and diplomacy.

After a flurry of boos erupted in the theatre, Clark shouted, “I hear a lot
of people out there.  I want to ask you this question, which one of you
believes that a single American service member should die before every
possible other alternative has been exhausted. Which one of you would
believe that we should sacrifice our men and women in war before we try our
best with other means such as diplomacy?”

When several audience members cried out, Clark also generated some applause
after yelling “Stand up and say it! Let’s hear it! And lets hear you explain
it and justify it to the families of those who have suffered the loss!”

NBC News and MSNBC anchor Forrest Sawyer moderates the debate.

Gingrich fired back to enormous ovation.  Referring to the French opposition
to the Iraq War, Gingrich asked, “Which of you believes there are any
circumstances under which Jacque Chirac was going to undermine his covert
alliance with Saddam Hussein?”

Gingrich said that it was unrealistic to expect America to design a strategy
for dealing with a dictator who was depositing money in French banks, and
who was buying things from French businesses.

“We now know as a fact [that] both the French and the Russians were assuring
Saddam up until the very end that we would not attack,” he added.

“And that’s part of why he was so confident we wouldn’t attack.”

Previous Clash of the Titans™ guests have included Alan Dershowitz, Jay
Sekulow, Ann Coulter, Nadine Strossen, David Limbaugh, Barry Lynn and
Catherine Crier.

Click here to see more debate pictures.

To read The Virginian-Pilot's article about the debate, click here.

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http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=94090&ran=60085

News / Iraq

On the right were Newt Gingrich, making his opening state-ment above, and
former Lt. Col. Oliver North. On the left were Paul Begala and retired Gen.
Wesley K. Clark. Journalist Forrest Sawyer, background, moderated. HYUNSOO
LEO KIM/THE VIRGINIAN-PILOT

By GILLIAN GAYNAIR, The Virginian-Pilot
© October 22, 2005

VIRGINIA BEACH — The third annual Clash of the Titans debate Friday at
Regent University brought together four political heavyweights to spar over
whether the U.S. strategy in Iraq is working.

Appearing at the Communication and Performing Arts Center, the political
musclemen garnered cheers and boos from an audience of about 700.

On the right was Newt Gingrich, former speaker of the House and author of
Contract with America, a series of reforms that led to the first Republican
House majority in 40 years in 1995, and former Lt. Col. Oliver North,
counter terrorism coordinator during the Reagan administration and a
decorated Marine.

On the left was Paul Begala, co-host of CNN’s “Inside Politics ” and senior
strategist for Bill Clinton’s 1992 presidential campaign, and retired Gen.
Wesley K. Clark, commander of NATO forces in the Kosovo conflict and
recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the nation’s highest
civilian honor.

Journalist Forrest Sawyer of NBC News and MSNBC moderated the debate.

First in the ring was Gingrich, who said that although some intelligence was
wrong, ousted Iraqi President Saddam Hussein was a threat to the United
States and that the war in Iraq was necessary to ensure Americans’ safety.

The U nited States made mistakes, Gingrich said, “but in fact, we have no
choice but to learn from these mistakes and move on.”

Clark said he did not think the war on terrorism involved invading Iraq and
criticized the Bush administration for sending inadequate military forces
into Iraq without a follow-through plan.

“It’s high time this administration came forward with a regional plan that
will work,” Clark said. “'Staying the course’ is not a plan. It’s a slogan.”

The general suggested that fighting terrorism in the Middle East requires
that conditions be created to defeat, on Muslim territory, ideologies among
some Muslims.

“You use force as your last resort,” Clark said. “Your first weapon is the
weapon of ideology. We have to sharpen up that weapon and get it deployed
because we’re behind.”

North, too, addressed terrorism on a broad level but said “staying the
course” – a refrain used often by Bush – involves attacking the “explosive
growth” of jihads – Muslim holy wars – throughout the Middle East and
elsewhere. The challenge before the United States is to create conditions in
which young people are not taught to hate and kill but rather to have hope
and believe in opportunities, North said.

The four debaters came together at the end of a historic week in Iraq,
during which Saddam and seven Iraqi officials went on trial, accused of
executing 143 Shiites from the town of Dujail, and results from an Oct. 15
constitutional referendum appeared to have been approved by voters.

Meanwhile, U.S. casualties since the beginning of the Iraq war reached 1,992
this week in some counts, and national polls showed declining public support
for the war in Iraq and President Bush.

At the Regent debate, Begala said the president has failed Americans and
lied to them with “rosy scenarios” of the war on terrorism.

“The lack of candor and credibility in the long term will be strategically
detrimental to us moving forward in this,” said Begala, adding that most
Americans aren’t in agreement with Bush’s strategy in Iraq.

At one point, Begala asked his fellow panelists what the president should do
to garner citizens’ support.

North said he would like to see Bush visit troops several times in the
battlefield to offer encouragement.

Clark suggested that the president deal with Iraq in “the context of its
neighbors and actions in the region as a whole.”

Looking to the future, North said he thought the turnout to elect a new
Iraqi parliament in December will be far more than most expect and that
afterward , American forces will slowly move out of Iraq. The country will
build democracy, he said, but the long-term issue will be how to address
jihads throughout the region.

Gingrich proposed that the challenge before Americans “is to accept that
some things may not be fixable.” He said he foresaw the United States in a
50- to 70-year war “with an irreconcilable wing of Islam.”

Although he said in his opening remarks that the United States was safer
with Saddam out of power, Gingrich in closing said the United States still
is not inside the minds of terrorists. He referred to North Korea and said
that after 55 years, “we still don’t understand their government.”

“We will learn what we have to learn and do what we have to do, and we will
win this war with whatever it takes,” Gingrich said. “That’s the only future
I know of.”

Reuters contributed to this report.

Reach Gillian Gaynair at (757) 222-5113 or

.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/news/051026c.asp

CBN.com – (CBN News) - People heard both sides of the debate over Iraq
recently, as four leading analysts gave their views during Regent
University's annual Clash of the Titans.

With polls showing Americans divided over the Iraq war, the four leading
commentators took on the topic.

NBC News Anchor Forrest Sawyer moderated the exchange between liberals
Wesley Clark and Paul Begala and conservatives Oliver North and Newt
Gingrich.

The issue: Is the Bush strategy working in Iraq? Former Supreme Allied
Commander in Europe Wesley Clark drew boos when he said the Bush
administration should have not gone into Iraq without trying to bring along
the United Nations and the French.

After the audience’s negative response, Clark said, “Now hang on. I want to
ask you something -- which one of you believes that a single American
serviceman should die before every possible other alternative has been
exhausted?”

Gingrich replied, “I would also say to them, which of you believes there
were any circumstances under which Jacques Chirac was going to undermine his
covert alliance with Saddam Hussein and the billions of dollars France was
making?”

But the debate also went to the very justifications for the war, with former
House Speaker Gingrich saying that the media and the left continue to ignore
the facts in the report by UN weapons inspector David Kay, that Saddam was
dangerous.

“The Iraqi secret police were running 18 biological laboratories,” Gingrich
explained. “That's a fact.”

Sawyer retorted, “Where's the citing of that? Where do you know this?”

Gingrich responded, “That's in the part of the Kay report that no one in the
media would read. Kay said on the record, in the Senate, that Saddam was
more dangerous than we thought. That was Kay's personal summary judgment.”

Retired Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, who covers Iraq for Fox News, says
the media continues to fail to show the successes in Iraq, in part because
Western reporters are not leaving the safety of the Green Zone in Baghdad:

“Today in Iraq, my network - that I'm going back out there for the seventh
time in a few weeks - my network has nobody in the field, nor does anybody
else,” North said. “They're all back in the Green Zone doing balcony shots
using tape that they buy from Arab journalists. There's our problem. We
don't have enough reporters out in the field.”

Clark ripped the Pentagon and the White House for conduct of the war, and
for allegations that the U.S. military has used torture:

Clark said, “Now the American armed forces that I spent 34 years in didn't
torture people, it didn't abuse them, it didn't punch prisoners when it
captured them. It treated them exactly as the Geneva Convention required us
to do, or we held people accountable.”

Both sides said now that the U.S. needs to win in Iraq, but former Clinton
advisor Paul Begala said that Bush needs be more upfront with the America
people about how the war is going.

“If the President wanted to sustain support for this war,” Begala remarked,
“he should speak exactly the way Newt Gingrich was speaking. Instead of the
usual ‘happy horseman’ we get from him, which is, all is great all is
wonderful, he ought to sound like Newt. He ought to say this is a big, long
bloody scary difficult deal, but we'll never flinch.”

And Gingrich drew a standing ovation with his Winston Churchill-like closing
comments, that America has no choice but to win.

“We as a free people have to decide that our civilization is worth
defending,” Gingrich said, “[that] our freedoms are worth fighting for, and
that we'll learn what we have to learn, do what we have to do -- and we will
win this war, whatever it takes, and that's the only future I know of. Thank
you very much.”