OLD General Discussion [1.36a UTC-7]
Submitted by JustTalking on September 8, 2005 - 4:37am.

Old General Discussion at http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/506

damn. I thought you worked at Voldersoft... :)
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"Those who cavalierly reject the Theory of Evolution, as not adequately supported by facts, seem quite to forget that their own theory is supported by no facts at all."
--Herbert Spencer: Nineteenth-century English social scientist
Cthulhu,
Thank you for your kind helpful action. I have one request-- could you change the picture at the top? I live in Baton Rouge, we didn't suffer major damage to our home. I have 16 displaced relatives whom have lost everything. When I went to the website you kindly set up; a shock of terror went through me. The sight of that or any hurricane image is terribly shocking and frightening. You see personally, I haven't lost that much, nothing like my other family members. I have 6 friends that I haven't located. They lived in Slidell-the hardest hit area in La. I do feel traumatized. Thank you again.
Thank you Nelsons. You know, the really hard thing is that not only have they lost their homes, but they have lost their businesses and their livelihood. New Orleans will never be remotely the same. I remember playing in the graveyard across the street from my aunt Ada's house as a child. The graves were built above ground in N. O. because if buried underground they would float up. The graveyards were really beautiful and mysterious places for us to play. The damage, oh, the damage done.
The principal at my son's school is very interested in our plan to supply musical instruments to the new displaced students. She had her secretary take my contact info. I think I'll get in touch with the band instructor myself. I'm sure the principal is quite overwhelmed with the massive influx of new students. I don't want to wait around. I think those children need therapeutic art. I could use a good old jazz funeral.
My friend said she would see if she can find someone in the music department at LSU-BR to go down to N. O. to salvage instruments left behind in the universities.
Yesterday, another friend of our's went to LSU medical school in N. O. to try to recover frozen tissue samples for his cancer research. He had national guard troops working with him.
Thank goodness we have our troops back.
Can you get in touch with originaLinda? She knows people who want to donate in some way to help displaced people. They are considering donating to the Red Cross, but maybe they'd help you with your project? I left a note for originaLinda under the General's post, and asked her to email me if she thinks anyone would be interested in helping you.

(((((Sandra, Jose and Family)))))
Hang in there and please keep blogging here when you can. I have found much comfort in reading your words.
I don't approve of political jokes.....I've seen too many of them get elected.

Terrific work. Thanks for your efforts! Do you have a graphic for a link that folks can put up on their own sites?
Check out the link please.
http://katrinadonations.blogspot.com/2005/09/katrina-goods-and-supply-drive.html

http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/457 seems to be gone entirely... Did Dorma delete it ? can one delete their own blog entirely?
and yet..
http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/422#comment-8042 which was my post of history of cake and the origins of brioch. WHAT the Hell is going on???
The blog mommies better start editing the "my comments" section so we cannot see their "revision of history".
I suspected this would be the path we would be put on when the DNC flacks got involved.
Read this post while you can...
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"Those who cavalierly reject the Theory of Evolution, as not adequately supported by facts, seem quite to forget that their own theory is supported by no facts at all."
--Herbert Spencer: Nineteenth-century English social scientist
a "disposable" blog?
Disposable bloggers?
Wonder if Wes is aware?
Doubt it.
HEY JOhn...WHAT'S GOING ON? AND WHATEVER IT IS HAVE YOU TOLD WES?
That's sad. I thought Wes wanted this to be more than a pol blog. I'm sure he wants a community. Sharing info like the history of Brioche binds people. We are social creatures.
I think we're all a bit bewildered here...and absolutely horrified by the callousness of "those that have a dynasty" B*shtard family members...horrified but not surprised.
They have earned a special place in hell (if there is such a place) and major bad karma for their next lifetimes...problem is we need sheilded from them NOW in THIS LIFETIME.

I'm just resurfacing from vacation, so I haven't been part of the ongoing discussion. I meant her callous remarks about how great things were for the underprivileged folks that had moved up in the world to life in the Astrodome.
Oh yeah, I heard about that. Which brings to mind a thought I have been having - I think those Katrina evacuees should be spread out across the nation. Having them concentrated in a few places puts an enormous strain on their host cities and puts them at risk of another disaster. That is their becoming 'Katrina ghettos'. The unemployment rate is a reality that can't be ignored. If they are spread out more and 'adopted' by a larger number of hosts, they will have stronger, lasting support to get them settled into communities. This will also significantly reduce a racial backlash, which may occur if they cluster in large numbers in places like Houston and Baton Rouge. Those children have all been traumatized and they need support and stability in the years to come. They are still at risk, IMO.

You make a good argument. Jesse Jackson disagrees. He wants the community kept in Louisiana to return to New Orleans so they aren't fractured as a community. The rich white folks of N.O., according to the WSJ are fighting that idea. There is going to be a New Orleans diaspora from Katrina. People will settle in new places and others may want to go back to N.O. one day. I don't think Jesse can stop that flow. It's going on all over the globe for various reasons. Some of these people might even want to settle in Canada if the opportunity was there for them to do so. If it happened to me and Canada opened it's doors, I'd sure consider it.

Sigh. I deleted it because it made someone I admire and respect and adore a little uneasy.
Yup. You can delete your own post. I didn't realize it until I went through and edited all my comments. (For the record, I didn't realize it because those nasty little menus don't always appear for me, and when they do...oh - never mind. Sigh.)
It was a rant. I'm done ranting. Lately I have seen stuff here that just makes my blood boil. I've decided from now on when I come upon that stuff, just to walk away for a few days.

Hang in there. Hopefully it will suck less and less as time goes on.
Have come to the conclusion we were really spoiled at oldCCN
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"George Bush has had his day and he's bollixed it up."

I completely understand.....:(
I don't approve of political jokes.....I've seen too many of them get elected.
...if everything that makes me uneasy gets deleted there won't be much left...maybe i should go delete everything i submitted, because alot of it makes me uneasy, God knows how it might effect someone else.
The whole new enchilada here makes me uneasy.
Jaysus, even my government makes me uneasy.
I must be living an uneasy life-style...maybe its just a sign of the times yathink?
ouch-damnhowpainful!

Fremont, glad you brought this up. I wanted to ask you a question about Brioche, but thought it inappropriate for this blog, seems like on the previous CCN, however, we were not as self-conscience or up-tight, and there was a mixed flow of ideas and conversation.

Hmm. I don't think I've ever had brioche. I forget where it was but someone had a whole recipe thing at CCNI.
Damn Ken, didnt know you were a chef!

Here's a wonderful little editorial piece from today's Baltimore Sun. I hope the news outlets keep 'em coming until BushCo is run out of town on a rail.....
The camera doesn't lie
September 8, 2005
NEWS ORGANIZATIONS are usually uneasy about showing images of the dead, as a matter of both taste and respect. But it's a decision for individual newspapers and television stations to make. When the government attempts to play the deciding role -- as the Federal Emergency Management Agency did yesterday when it began trying to prevent photographing of the dead in New Orleans -- it smacks not of concern for the feelings of survivors or the sensibility of readers, but of a desire to cover up the bad news.
Is there an echo here? For more than a year, the Bush administration prevented the press from showing the return of soldiers' coffins from Iraq. They weren't part of the "reality" that the White House intended to portray. The storyline on Iraq was shock and awe followed by Pfc. Jessica Lynch followed by the big statue coming down followed by schools being repainted. Soon enough, of course, the press was reporting a different version, but the initial burst of image-making made a lasting impression, and until very recently, American officials were still going over to Baghdad and coming back with tales of a success in the making. In a strange way, the insurgency -- by making the practice of journalism so difficult in Iraq -- has enabled the administration to keep promoting its sunny tales, in the general absence of American eyewitnesses.
In the wake of Katrina, Washington trotted out the same strategy -- and was made to look foolish and devastatingly incompetent. As the floodwaters kept mounting, officials from the president on down persisted in delivering self-congratulatory pronouncements, when it was plainly obvious to anyone with a television set or a newspaper subscription that New Orleans and its remaining residents were in horrifying distress.
Reporters this time were embedded not with the still-idle National Guard units but with the crowds at the Superdome, and as hard as FEMA might now try to create a different construct of reality, it won't stand. Pushing the unfortunate dead out of view is not respectful but in fact the final indignity: Neglected and marginalized in life, they are to have no presence in death.
But Americans won't be so easily beguiled. From the Tigris to the Mississippi, this is an administration that has lost its grip on reality, for all the world to see.
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I don't approve of political jokes.....I've seen too many of them get elected.

Gordon Adams, former senior White House budget official for national security in the Clinton administration, seems to agree that Bush should pack up and head back to Crawford.....permanently! This Op/Ed piece is from today's Baltimore Sun:
After Katrina fiasco, time for Bush to go
by Gordon Adams
WASHINGTON - The disastrous federal response to Katrina exposes a record of incompetence, misjudgment and ideological blinders that should lead to serious doubts that the Bush administration should be allowed to continue in office.
When taxpayers have raised, borrowed and spent $40 billion to $50 billion a year for the past four years for homeland security but the officials at the Federal Emergency Management Agency cannot find their own hands in broad daylight for four days while New Orleans and the Mississippi Gulf Coast swelter, drown and die, it is time for them to go.
more on my blog.....
http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/518
I don't approve of political jokes.....I've seen too many of them get elected.
Carpet Bagger Cheney has been in town. hmm $150,000,000,000....
Wouldn't want Halliburton left out.
Just saw on the news yesterday that Halliburton ss on credit watch positive at Moody's. Expect them to be upgraded.

SOLAR FLARE: On Sept. 7th at 1740 UT (1:40 p.m. EDT), Earth-orbiting satellites detected a major X17-class solar flare coming from the sun's eastern limb. The blast caused a complete blackout of HF radio transmissions on the daylit side of Earth. Emergency personnel in hurricane-hit areas of the U.S. Gulf Coast may have experienced problems with their communications gear for minutes to hours after the flare.
Maybe, that's one reason they were requesting that all ham radio operators help out w/ communications yesterday.

September 08, 2005
Considering an Energy Bill do-over
Posted 9:04 am | Printer Friendly
Shortly before breaking for the August recess, Congress approved a sweeping energy bill crafted by the White House. The legislation was hardly a step in the right direction — the bill, by its sponsors own admission, does nothing to address energy prices or reduce the nation's dependence on foreign oil. What's worse, the Bush-backed energy bill lavished the already-ridiculously-profitable oil industry with lucrative new subsidies.
Just a month later, with devastation on the Gulf Coast on everyone's mind, Congress is apparently poised to do the whole energy-bill thing over again.
House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas) told members of the Republican Conference yesterday that GOP leaders are seriously considering writing a sweeping new energy bill in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.During House Republicans' weekly closed-door meeting, DeLay said leaders are weighing such a move, according to a leadership aide who attended. DeLay indicated that the bill would include a number of provisions that were jettisoned from earlier energy legislation passed before Congress left for the August recess, but he did not provide many other details.
So, what would the new bill do that the recently-signed old bill didn't? New conservation efforts, perhaps? Broader investment in new technologies and research-and-development initiatives? Of course not. Energy Bill II would emphasize drilling and more subsidies.
To fix an energy model that Barton said is stuck in the 1970s, [Rep. Joe Barton (R-Texas), chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee] recommended drilling in Alaska and in coastal states where offshore drilling currently is banned…. Other Republicans used the hearing to call for the building of more oil refineries across the country.
Politically, Republicans might want to be careful on this one, because while the GOP is talking about drilling and subsidies, Dems are focusing on oil companies — and right now, the public really hates the oil companies.
read more at http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/
"George Bush has had his day and he's bollixed it up."

I was traumatized thinking I would be off the blog for two days. How would I know what was going on in the world?
Nice university laptop plus hotel connection and I am online though at a convention. Nice.
Haven't checked the news yet. Mostly not good.
Noel

"Now, for you people who are saying, `Well, stop pointing fingers at the president...left-wing...the media's being too hard:
No. SHUT...UP! No! This is inarguably---inarguably---a failure of leadership from the top of the federal government.
Remember when Bill Clinton went out with Monica Lewinsky? That was inarguably a failure of judgment at the top. Democrats had to come out and risk losing credibility if they did not condemn Bill Clinton for his behavior. I believe Republicans are in the same position right now. And I will say this: Hurricane Katrina is George Bush's Monica Lewinsky. The only difference is that tens of thousands of people weren't stranded in Monica Lewinsky's vagina."
--Jon Stewart
"George Bush has had his day and he's bollixed it up."

or whoever writes for him, is a genius!
I don't approve of political jokes.....I've seen too many of them get elected.

Ed Helms: While everybody else is busy setting up commissions and finding fault, through the president's leadership he'll end up building a billion dollar dam in Arkansas.
Jon Stewart: Why would he build a dam in Arkansas?
Ed Helms: His plan will be to fight the water there so we don't have to fight it here.Jon Stewart: So no one's going to be held accountable for this at all?
Ed Helms: No. In fact, if history is any indication, they'll be hard-pressed finding enough medals to pin on these guys. My sources tell me the head of FEMA will be dipped in bronze and turned into an award to be given to other officials.
"George Bush has had his day and he's bollixed it up."

Oh Maddie!! I watched the re-run of that yesterday and I wuz cryin', cryin' I tell ya!
Mr. Stewart deserves all good things in life.
From KOS,
Cheers and Jeers Flashback: September 8, 2004. It was a surprisingly eventful day...
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CHEERS to counting your blessings. Hurricane Frances was a puppy dog compared to the Galveston hurricane of 1900--104 years ago today. 23-foot waves and winds up to 135 mph combined to kill 6,000 people. Somehow we suspect that doesn't provide much comfort to you Floridians without roofs.
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JEERS to terrorism. As in, Dick Cheney terrorizing Americans with lines like, "...if [voters] make the wrong choice, then the danger is that we'll get hit again, and we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating." [9/8/05 Update: You may now remove your shoe and smack your computer.]
Last week I asked fellow Clarkies if they thought I should go ahead and order oil to be delivered to our home. We have a 1,000 gal tank (underground) and I'm trying to figure out if they're predicting the cost of oil will go up, down, or remain the same in the next few weeks.
We bought this house a few years ago and it the oil tank doesn't have a gauge on it. I have no idea what level it is at right now. I can't gamble too much on waiting to order oil.
I waited for Labor Day to be over to call. I think I'm going to call today - do you think that is a mistake?
Personally, I'd probably wait a bit until the Katrina fallout settles - the refineries should be back to about 95% before too long. How long do you think you can wait?

Is the "Just Talking's Blog" link in the masthead new? I just noticed it when I refreshed the page. I think the blog brownies are at work. I'm gonna go check under my bed to see if they fixed my old shoes, too.
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"In too many areas we have spawned 'leadership' that does not lead, that panders to our whims rather than telling us the truth, that follows the crowd rather than challenging us, that weakens us rather than strengthening us." - Sen. Paul Simon

If you're on "Just Talking's" blog (which we are right now), the name will be up there. Go from here to an individual blog and it's gone. Bookmark this to always have a link to GD threads:
http://securingamerica.com/ccn/blog/170
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest places if you look at it right.
--Hunter/Garcia
I can't post a reply here: http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/184
I wanted to tell Ben that he can go to ildemnet.com - I'm not sure if they have a blog, though...if you want something posted, I know the webmaster.

On oldCCN a rule was put in place that you couldn't comment on a blog if it was more than 2 weeks old. It was to stop freepers and spammers I believe.
"George Bush has had his day and he's bollixed it up."

I didn't spend a lot of time there, but it didn't seem to be too Wes friendly. I had hoped to post links to Wes's leadership editorials.
I just joined the Downstate Dem Yahoo group that was linked from there. I'll see how it goes.
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"In too many areas we have spawned 'leadership' that does not lead, that panders to our whims rather than telling us the truth, that follows the crowd rather than challenging us, that weakens us rather than strengthening us." - Sen. Paul Simon
The Webmaster is a long-time Clarkie. He's not following him too closely now, but he's Wes-friendly, trust me. I try to feed him with Wes stuff when I get the chance. I got him to put Clark's appearance at the Chicago Council of Foreign Relations event up at the site. I don't think he posts appearances of any other "candidate".

This is from today's Wall Street Journal.
Old-Line Families Escape Worst of Flood And Plot the Future
The mostly African-American neighborhoods of New Orleans are largely underwater, and the people who lived there have scattered across the country. But in many of the predominantly white and more affluent areas, streets are dry and passable. Gracious homes are mostly intact and powered by generators...
Despite the disaster that has overwhelmed New Orleans, the city's monied, mostly white elite is hanging on and maneuvering to play a role in the recovery when the floodwaters of Katrina are gone....
[I]n an exclusive gated community known as Audubon Place, is the home of James Reiss, descendent of an old-line Uptown family. He fled Hurricane Katrina just before the storm and returned soon afterward by private helicopter. Mr. Reiss became wealthy as a supplier of electronic systems to shipbuilders, and he serves in Mayor Nagin's administration as chairman of the city's Regional Transit Authority. When New Orleans descended into a spiral of looting and anarchy, Mr. Reiss helicoptered in an Israeli security company to guard his Audubon Place house and those of his neighbors.
He says he has been in contact with about 40 other New Orleans business leaders since the storm. Tomorrow, he says, he and some of those leaders plan to be in Dallas, meeting with Mr. Nagin to begin mapping out a future for the city.
The power elite of New Orleans -- whether they are still in the city or have moved temporarily to enclaves such as Destin, Fla., and Vail, Colo. -- insist the remade city won't simply restore the old order. New Orleans before the flood was burdened by a teeming underclass, substandard schools and a high crime rate. The city has few corporate headquarters.
The new city must be something very different, Mr. Reiss says, with better services and fewer poor people. "Those who want to see this city rebuilt want to see it done in a completely different way: demographically, geographically and politically," he says. "I'm not just speaking for myself here. The way we've been living is not going to happen again, or we're out."
You listening, el Presidente? That's the sound of wealthy people who understand you don't shaft those who are less fortunate and it their duty to help those who need it.
Listen to them.

I don't see anything here about helping the poor people, getting them help or jobs: "The new city must be something very different, Mr. Reiss says, with better services and fewer poor people." What is in the rest of the article that supports your assertion?
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"In too many areas we have spawned 'leadership' that does not lead, that panders to our whims rather than telling us the truth, that follows the crowd rather than challenging us, that weakens us rather than strengthening us." - Sen. Paul Simon

Well, if you've got better services, then you're talking about better schools, more health care for the poor, day care for working mothers, and so on. That will yield more opportunity for them. Better education yields more income which get them out of poverty.
Look at the last line of what he said. He said they can't have an New Orleans like it used to be, with such a gulf between the rich and poor, or they are done.

"The way we've been living is not going to happen again, or we're out." That isn't inspiring to me. Hey, I want to believe this guy is going to do good for everyone. I just don't see sunshine and roses flowing from his statements. To me, it could go either way. Is there more to this article than what you posted?
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"In too many areas we have spawned 'leadership' that does not lead, that panders to our whims rather than telling us the truth, that follows the crowd rather than challenging us, that weakens us rather than strengthening us." - Sen. Paul Simon

And found that Reiss did clean up the Regional Transit Authority. He also survived Nagin's purge of the former mayor's inner circle. That should carry some weight. Living in Illinois, I'm guessing. Lacking any citations that he is the world's most evil man (which I think is currently held by someone in the Bush adminstration) or the world's greatest humanitarian, I'll defer to your judgement. I hope he does fight off the impending governmental grab of NO and makes it over into a model city for all citizenry.
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"In too many areas we have spawned 'leadership' that does not lead, that panders to our whims rather than telling us the truth, that follows the crowd rather than challenging us, that weakens us rather than strengthening us." - Sen. Paul Simon

Is that he's not taking the "let them eat cake" -- actually, it would be more like let them stew in their own filth to reflect the Bush administration line, as shown by Barbara Bush -- attitude.
He's saying, we must do something to reduce poverty and improve services when we rebuild this city.
And it looks like he's got a lot of other wealthy people who feel the same way. He is going to meet with Nagin and about 40 other wealthy families in New Orleans and he says they all have the same attitude.
Seriously, unless you are the most callous, most heartless SOB on the face of the earth, how could you look at people dying in your own city, which your family helped establish way back when, and say, ah, the hell with them?
Even the incompetents at FEMA and the department of homeland (in)security felt badly.

mindset.
Does it matter whether the guy has a (D) or (R) after his name if he's looking to do rebuild New Orleans in a way that reduces poverty and increases services?
And if he's meeting with Nagin, he obviously isn't playing the "blame the democrats" game.

Link to the St Louis Post Dispatch article: http://tinyurl.com/a8zu4
"In too many areas we have spawned 'leadership' that does not lead, that panders to our whims rather than telling us the truth, that follows the crowd rather than challenging us, that weakens us rather than strengthening us." - Sen. Paul Simon

Again, from the St Louis Post Dispatch: http://tinyurl.com/bobox
Missouri's attorney general filed suit Wednesday seeking to shut down at least 10 hurricane relief Web sites that he said are quietly run by a man with ties to a racist group - and that may not benefit storm victims at all.
The suit, in St. Louis Circuit Court, also asks that the man, Frank Weltner, be ordered to return any funds collected that way.
(more at link)
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"In too many areas we have spawned 'leadership' that does not lead, that panders to our whims rather than telling us the truth, that follows the crowd rather than challenging us, that weakens us rather than strengthening us." - Sen. Paul Simon

"In too many areas we have spawned 'leadership' that does not lead, that panders to our whims rather than telling us the truth, that follows the crowd rather than challenging us, that weakens us rather than strengthening us." - Sen. Paul Simon

By Francie Broderick
Last one
Rest of Editorial from the Post-Dispatch: http://tinyurl.com/byzfp
09/08/2005
Two human disasters took place last week, one in Missouri and one in the Gulf Coast. I see a connection.
On September 1, about 90,000 Missourians began to lose access to health care. Some basic services for 350,000 others were cut from the Missouri Medicaid program.
We all know what happened to the Gulf Coast. Hundreds of thousands of people who had been living in poverty or a heartbeat away from it lost everything and were left to fend for themselves in a nightmare scenario.
Both catastrophes, I believe, are the result of a kind of Social Darwinism that has seemed to take over and inform our social policy in recent decades. "Survival of the fittest" and "the strong will survive" seem to have become the underlying themes of our social-services and health care policies.
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"In too many areas we have spawned 'leadership' that does not lead, that panders to our whims rather than telling us the truth, that follows the crowd rather than challenging us, that weakens us rather than strengthening us." - Sen. Paul Simon

in blog "lite" mode today-
Who knows anything about these military collectible coins: http://digbig.com/4emyn (This one's a Wes SACEUR)
"George W. Bush has helped those who have most, hurt those who have least and ignored everyone in between." -Wesley Clark

Whilst in the AF I never knew anyone that actually had a challenge coin, but heard rumor of their existence. Found this through Google: http://tinyurl.com/84zzm . If your linked item is the real deal, which it seems to be, it would certainly increase in value come '08. You would have to query his staff to see if he actually had any minted or if this is a knock-off.
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"In too many areas we have spawned 'leadership' that does not lead, that panders to our whims rather than telling us the truth, that follows the crowd rather than challenging us, that weakens us rather than strengthening us." - Sen. Paul Simon

Holly,
As SACEUR, General Clark did have these challenge coins produced and awarded, while in command. It is unclear how many were originally produced or how many may still remain.
___________________________________________________________
NATO's motto is written on their sheild(logo) in latin;
"Vigilia Pretium Libertatis"
"Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Liberty"
___________________________________________________________
However, to my knowledge the coin should measure at least 2" inches in diameter, and have a pretective clear glassy epoxy cover molded over the enameled-logos only: ie. green NATO shield and red NATO 4-Star flag and not the whole coin. It should also feature the polished brass bezel edge, all of which appear from the picture shown here. However, it is unclear whether the pic is the actual product that you will recieve, since the ad lacks these descriptive elements in the sellers' text, therefore it's important to inquire, esp if it's a knock-off from the original design.
You can compare here the differences with the current auctions;
___________________________________________________________
"Debate, Dialogue, Discussion, Disagreement - that's not wrong -that's not unpatriotic, that's one of the highest forms of patriotism and love of country, and we need to say it!" -Gen. Wesley Clark(Ret.)

Thanks Knight (and all)- I just had no idea such things existed, call me clueless- of course it makes sense. Neat, anyway.
I found it looking for a Wes quote on BrainyQuote.com- I wonder if there's a way to feed them more quotes? Their selection is a bit dated.
Anyway while there I bumped into the ominpresent Ebay keyword thing & saw the coins. (I don't want one, it's just a "Huh?")
I also was really happy to see a Google adword campaign that brings up WKC's WAPO op-ed when you Google Wes Clark.
I looked into placing an order for challenge coins for Clarkies during the campaign, and not every design is enameled. You can have a plain bronze, gold or silver coin made with or without color and with or without the enamel overlay.
My old blog about it:

Ksenija, that is an amazing story & a terrific idea, let's keep that idea shortlisted!
Thanks for the charming history lesson. :)

I bought one of the SACEUR challenge coins on eBay over a year ago. Unfortunately, I don't remember who I bought it from, and it's too long ago to show up on my account, so I can't recommend these people. The coin appears to be authentic, tho.
Most senior commanders have these made to hand out to troops they want to reward for stuff too small to generate an official reward. And for members of the command to carry.
The "challenge" part comes at the Officers or NCO clubs. Someone slaps his/her coin on the bar, everybody else has to produce their own, and whoever isn't carrying one has to buy a round. Just a morale thing. A fairly recent tradition, going back to the late 70s, maybe early 80s.
There was a real cute story in some NH paper, I think, back during the 04 campaign when WKC was meeting with some soldiers and vets. One of 'em pulled a coin challenge and the General didn't have his. So he bought 'em all a beer. Sam Adams iirc.

"Never underestimate what a determined soldier can accomplish when he's fighting for his country." -- General Wesley Clark

Did I miss something? Is someone upset with the history of brioche? I'm sending light to the Geaux family in B.R. You people are a rock for your family there. I hope they all are registered with FEMA to get their debit cards. If they want to come to Kansas City, people are waiting here to share their homes as they are in Baltimore. The fall here is usually very nice. It's a good time to be a tourist in another city, once they feel like they can go, if they want.

Failure on Every Front
Impeach Bush Now, Before More Die
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS
http://www.counterpunch.com/roberts09032005.html

Downingsteetmemos nas launched their comprehensive searchable timeline for the leadup to the war in Iraq. Here's the link to their website and it's on the upper right.
I've just written Ken Weine at Newsweek to insist the retraction (see below) is done. Use contacts here: http://www.washpostco.com/contacts.htm
Newsweek falsely suggested Blanco was slow in declaring state of emergency; hasn't corrected error
Like The Washington Post, Newsweek incorrectly reported in its September 12 issue that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco was slow to declare a state of emergency in the state, purportedly delaying federal assistance in dealing with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. In fact, Blanco declared a state of emergency on August 26, before Katrina made landfall. But while the Post has corrected its false reporting, Newsweek has not yet done so -- despite the fact that the magazine has already corrected another error in the same article.
Read more...
http://mediamatters.org/items/200509070002
I would rather spend my life searching for the truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. -- John Victor Ramses

Also from Media Matters, I wrote to O'Leilly this morning - he pulled the same crap. (Like we expect anything else...) The email links at the bottom are both to Fox News and O'Leilly himself. You can put FOX news addy in the "To" field and O'Leilly's addy in the CC field - kill 2 birds and all...
http://mediamatters.org/items/200509080001
Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest places if you look at it right.
--Hunter/Garcia
President Bush's job approval rating took a hit in the wake of Hurricane
Katrina, dropping to a historic low of 41%, a new Zogby America poll
reveals. The same survey found the nation's forty-third president would
lose election contests against all of his predecessors since Jimmy Carter.
The Zogby America survey of 1157 likely voters, conducted from September 6
through 7, 2005, has a margin of error of +/-2.9 percentage points.
The public rates the performance of all levels of government in the aftermath
of Hurricane Katrina negatively, with 36% giving the President passing
marks on his handling of the crisis—slightly higher than the 32% who give
government in general good marks for its handling of the storm that
devastated New Orleans and much of the Gulf coast.
In another key finding, the Zogby America survey finds that 86% of likely
voters assess the response of private charities favorably, and one
charity, the American Red Cross, gets higher marks than the federal
government, as well as state and local governments. In fact, four times
as many respondents say the Red Cross did a better job than the federal
government, with the charity being seen as more effective by 69% and the
government's response viewed more favorably by 17%. The Red Cross also
gets better marks than Louisiana's state and local governments, by a 72%
to 10% margin.
President Bush's Job Approval Hits All-Time Low
The 41% approval rating marks a precipitous drop in the President's job rating,
which has been slumping in a gradual trend that began in late February.
Pessimism about the nation's direction surged in the wake of Hurricane
Katrina, with a 53% majority of voters saying the nation is heading in the
wrong direction, while a 42% minority continues to say the nation is on the
right track. This is a significant shift since the last Zogby America
poll, taken at the end of July, which showed voters evenly divided on the
question, with 46% saying the nation was headed in the right direction and
47% saying it was on the wrong track.
Pessimists now outweigh optimists in all regions except the Western U.S., where
voters are evenly divided on the nation's direction. The South, the area
exclusively devastated by Katrina, is actually more positive in its outlook
on U.S. direction than the east, where voters are twice as likely to say
the nation is heading in the wrong direction as the right direction, by a
massive 64% to 33% margin.
A month ago, President Bush's job approval numbers were surging on a number of
fronts, suggesting that, after months of stagnation in his overall approval, the
President was about to see a measurable increase in his job performance
rating. However, Hurricane Katrina damaged more than the Gulf Coast, with
the President's numbers on a number of fronts dropping, and the percentage
of voters willing to rate his handling of various facets of his office as
"poor" climbing substantially.
Significantly, though, the President's signature issue has actually improved
marginally, with a 52% majority continuing to approve of his handling of the
War on Terror, up one point from a month ago.
In a sign of just how severe the damage to the President's standing caused by
Katrina is, the Zogby America survey finds that, despite his re-election last
fall, President Bush would lose to every modern president since Jimmy
Carter, the one-term Democrat who left office amid record unpopularity and a
presidency rated, at the time, dismally. He would also lose to his own
father, who left office amid an economic recession triggered, in part, by
a devastating hurricane.
However, in one of the few bright spots for the President, he would still beat
Massachusetts Democrat John Kerry, by a narrow, one-point margin.
Government At All Levels Criticized
Just one-in-three (32%) voters say that the government response to Hurricane
Katrina was adequate, while two-thirds (66%) rate the response negatively.
Among those holding a negative view of the government response, President Bush
bears the brunt of public criticism, with one-in-four (27%) voters saying he
most deserves the blame for inadequate government response. Federal Emergency
Management Agency Director Michael Brown comes in next in overall criticism,
with 22% blaming him. However, the combined total blaming Louisiana Governor
Kathleen Blanco (15%) and New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin (8%), the senior state
and local officials, respectively, is slightly higher than those blaming
Brown, with 23% placing the blame on the two Louisiana figures. Secretary
of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, meanwhile, comes in at 8%, while 9%
blame other government officials.
It is worth noting that among the one-in-three voters who have a favorable view
of the government response, an overwhelming 40% credit the president, while
16% credit Brown, 12% credit Blanco, 6% credit Nagin, and 7% credit Chertoff.
Red Cross Did "Better Job" Reacting to Katrina
Respondents say the American Red Cross did a better job than either federal or
state and local governments responding to Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath.
The huge private charity is rated more favorably than the federal government by
a 69% to 17% margin, and more favorably than Louisiana's state and local
governments by an even larger 72% to 10% margin.
The survey also finds 86% of likely voters saying that private charities reacted
effectively to the hurricane, while just 9% have a negative opinion of charities'
responses. Significantly, a 55% majority term private charities' responses
"excellent."
Pollster John Zogby: "The President has managed to do early in his second term
what his father did in just one term: Go from record high approval numbers in
the aftermath of 9/11 to his present numbers in the low 40s.
"It's interesting that each of the former presidents beats President Bush and
that his image has been hurt with what is perceived as his greatest strength.
It's intriguing to me as well that John Kerry is still stuck where he was on
Election Night—an indicator that Democrats, today, are unable to take
advantage of the nation's situation politically.
"Ironically, the Republican message to Americans is to rely less on
government. And it looks like that message is getting across, as Americans
have more faith in the Red Cross in this crisis than government."
Zogby International conducted interviews of 1157 likely voters chosen at
random nationwide. All calls were made from Zogby International headquarters
in Utica, N.Y., from September 6 to 7, 2005. The margin of error is +/- 2.9
percentage points. Slight weights were added to region, party, age, race,
religion, and genderto more accurately reflect the voting population. Margins
of error are higher in sub-groups.
***Please click the link below to view the full news release with tables.***

Does this information track with the exit polls- or are those wrong too?
Sorry, I don't mean to laugh.
Highlighting flawed poll showing partisan divide on Hurricane Katrina, Wash. Post ignored independents' criticism of Bush response
In a September 7 article by staff writer Dan Balz, The Washington Post reported that Americans are "dividing along sharply partisan lines in their judgment" of President Bush's and the federal government's handling of Hurricane Katrina, which Balz called the "opposite" of the reaction of "national unity" Americans had to the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. But in concluding that assessments of the administration's performance were largely based on political affiliation, Balz relied on a flawed Post/ABC News poll and ignored other polling data suggesting that independents -- and possibly even Republicans -- are critical of Bush's response to the natural disaster.
Read more...
http://mediamatters.org/items/200509070001
Again, here's a link if you want to write Balz!:
http://www.washpostco.com/contacts.htm
I would rather spend my life searching for the truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. -- John Victor Ramses
TALKING POINTS.... http://tinyurl.com/dlj98
Go to the website above to look at a great Katrina Timeline.
Right-Wing Congress Stacks Investigative Body and Loots Katrina Aid
September 8, 2005
Our nation’s right-wing congressional leaders yesterday attempted to one-up President Bush in the shame-and-embarrassment category. With only Republican members in attendance, House Speaker Hastert and Senate Majority Leader Frist announced the creation of a GOP-dominated “investigative” committee—created behind closed doors by members of the majority party alone—to uncover what went wrong with Hurricane Katrina. Congress then announced that debate on a $52 billion Katrina aid package would be limited to a mere 40 minutes—just enough time to ensure that no one learns about all the special interest, corporate pork stuffed into the disaster relief bill. Outrage is in full order today.
The clearly partisan “Hurricane Katrina Joint Review Committee” should be denounced as a farce. Adding to President Bush’s fanciful claim that he will get to the bottom of his own failures, Congress yesterday devised a congressional counterpart to whitewash matters and shift blame from their end of Pennsylvania Avenue. According the Washington Post, the investigative committee set up by Hastert and Frist “will include only members of Congress, with Republicans outnumbering Democrats by a yet-to-be-determined ratio. The commission, which will have subpoena powers, will investigate the actions of local, state and federal governments before and after the storm that devastated New Orleans and other portions of the Gulf Coast.”
The $52 billion Katrina aid package is set to be passed with almost no debate and no scrutiny of what greedy lobbyists and untoward congressmen stuffed into the bill.The House of Representatives, at the urging of conservative leadership, voted to limit floor debate of the Katrina aid package to a scant 40 minutes and prevent any amendments from being offered. According to Representative Louis Slaughter (D-NY), prior to precluding the possibility of amendments, "no one had yet to even see a copy of the legislation." This means no one will know who gets what before hand, how it will be distributed, who will benefit, and who is taking advantage of taxpayers. There will be no discussion of how to actually fix the problems that created the mess in the first place and no accountability for failures.
When Americans are down and out, count on conservative leaders to show who they truly care about—themselves and their corporate backers. With tens of thousands of people displaced, and utter devastation across much of the Gulf Coast, our nation’s right-wing leaders have really stepped up to the plate. They failed to respond to the disaster; then tried to shift the blame and whitewash their own failures; and now want to close off scrutiny of their actions and take advantage of relief funding to enrich special interests. A fitting way to close the door on this ugly period in American history.
To visit the Talking Points archives, please click here:
http://tinyurl.com/dlj98
I would rather spend my life searching for the truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. -- John Victor Ramses

and have the government to prove it. How long until the posters, reminiscent of Soviet Realism, start appearing along the streets of America, singing the praises of the Party and the Motherland?
.
.
.
"In too many areas we have spawned 'leadership' that does not lead, that panders to our whims rather than telling us the truth, that follows the crowd rather than challenging us, that weakens us rather than strengthening us." - Sen. Paul Simon

"In too many areas we have spawned 'leadership' that does not lead, that panders to our whims rather than telling us the truth, that follows the crowd rather than challenging us, that weakens us rather than strengthening us." - Sen. Paul Simon

How long until the posters, reminiscent of Soviet Realism, start appearing along the streets of America, singing the praises of the Party and the Motherland?
HAHAHAHAHHAAAAA- Oh, man.

Doesn't that ROCK!? I used to supervise a digitizing archive at a university & one of the collections was a huge array of original WWI & II propaganda posters- really amazing, beautiful & curious stuff.
Some of it is here:
http://exhibitions.library.temple.edu/ww1/index2.jsp

I love illustrations and graphic arts from that era. Classics.
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"In too many areas we have spawned 'leadership' that does not lead, that panders to our whims rather than telling us the truth, that follows the crowd rather than challenging us, that weakens us rather than strengthening us." - Sen. Paul Simon
in modern form, with Rovian-provided talking points in letters to the editor, talk shows, and the yellow-striped TV commentators.
Why?


Some of you may recall that I and others at "The Corporation So Huge That It Shall Not Be Named"© have been working behind the scenes with the Red Cross to put up a resource site for Katrina survivors. Well, it's up and live:
KatrinaSafe
Here you can do a query for lost loved ones, or report yourself found, and send help to or receive it from the Red Cross.
We've also created over a hundred Hotmail accounts for evacuees to use to contact their families, and donated 100 laptops to create a networked email kiosk.
You won't hear much about our involvement in the media because we don't want the attention--this is about helping in whatever way we can, not about $$.
It's a great site (if I do say so myself) so be sure to pimp it out to whomever you feel might be able to make use of it.