ClarkCast Alert- Integrity and Dissent
Submitted by Kat on April 17, 2006 - 7:30pm.
In this ClarkCast Alert, General Clark speaks about the Generals who have recently called for Donald Rumsfeld's resignation. From firsthand experience in working with these men, General Clark discusses their integrity, their honor and the difficulties inherent in dissent as a retired military officer.
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I'm so glad to see General Clark speaking out like this and his unwavering support for the other retired generals that are also speaking out.
Our country is lucky to have such men serving it.
Don't we owe it to ourselves to be all that we can be as a people of faith? To reach out and offer hope and opportunity to the least among us? - Wes Clark
This is why you subscribe. You never know what's gonna be coming down the podcast feed.
a special thanks goes out to you. Yes, yes, I know that these Clarkcasts are the work of the entire team, but you are part of that team. Your reaching out with these, your good humor, and the many cool things you bring to CCN are greatly appreciated.
You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.--J. V. Marley
It's so good to hear General Clark commend the other Generals. He makes it crystal clear that their criticisms are not made from political motives but in the best interest of the Country and the Armed Services.
carol4clark
General Wes Clark * * * * 4 Stars Over Texas
Speaks a lot for your courage, too, General, for you have certainly taken a lot of hits for your emerging as you have over the past 3 years...
Thanks for supporting these men, in their turn...
HIP HIP HOORAY for the Generals!!
Thank you General Clark for speaking out too!!!!
Clark is DA MAN Clark2008
This a great medium for Wes Clark to get his ideas across. I'm so glad he is using it effectively.
...starts out low key and almost muted, but when he gets into his message, he starts getting all worked up. You can tell that he believes what he says deeply, and more and more passion creeps into his voice and overall presentation.
The man is nothing if not sincere.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
BE THE CHANGE you wish to see in the world.
If not us, WHO? If not now, WHEN?
Heartfelt, brilliant & as always the General's love of country comes shining through. Very respectful & hopeful tone with that glint of steel just flashing. Gentleman, soldier, scholar, a statesman.
I appreciate how precise he is in articulating how difficult it may have been for many of the Generals to come forward considering the loyalty cultivated in the armed services & the habits of military culture.
Clark again cuts through the political nonsense and gets to the exact point that he needs to make. He praises the generals' dedication to the country over any political party and then makes the case why retired generals should speak out on behalf of America. Then he talks about how the civilian leadership need to listen to the real professionals who actually know warfare. Finally, he makes his own case that this administration has bungled the entire Iraq operation and should be held accountable for it. Vintage Clark, and dead on target.
I think that's a great phrase as well -Vintage Clark- since it is possible a lot of Johnny Come Latelys will show up soon. Better late than never, but sheesh! WKC's been out there busting his hump about this for literally years now!
The thread can be found at Gen. Discussion Politics. That is if anyone was thinking of dropping by. Errrrrrr!
You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.--J. V. Marley
This is one of Clark's best and comes at a critically important time! Thank you General.
I also posted his podcast at
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/17/233131/829. (Please rate up. :)
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"Debate, Dialogue, Discussion, Disagreement - that's not wrong -that's not unpatriotic, that's one of the highest forms of patriotism and love of country, and we need to say it!" - Gen. Wesley Clark (Ret.)
and will recommend yours if you'l recommend mine - the more the merrier.
I think that Cooks & Liars will pick it up - if they don't we can jog their memory tomorrow.
Standing up for right - talking straight. Always!
How great must our failure be until we turn in panic and disgrace to a Man of Honor? - Quigley
generals coming out against Rummy and brought up the General. He erroneously said that the General had "joined in" but went on to say that he really didn't include Clark in the group because he was now active politically which put him in a different situation. Franken also implied that this gave the General a partisan stature as opposed to the "neutral" generals now speaking. It was clear that Franken wanted to keep the two separate.
Later, I heard Randi Rhodes also discuss the issue and she went down the list of all the generals and their duties/positions. She omitted the General entirely.
So, it seems the General has achieved the status of "politician" at least in this instance. Anybody have any thoughts on this?
Visit www.zianet.com/insightanalytical - Home of the World Media Watch M-W-F, also at Buzzflash.com
have you read past blogs on Franken? He won't acknowledge that
the 2000 election was stolen or the 2004 was frauded... something
is wrong with him ... bought and delived by somebody has to be
he is the sole stone in the progressive side ( maybe you once read about how
journalists are sometimesrecruited to pretend to be on the left but use
their position to confuse and weaken the left from within....) that refused to talk about
vote theft .... he is either sick or some lobby has owned him
from the start ... any guesses?
Randi is another thing - she doesn't hav the Franken problem...
she is complicated... leave that to somebody who has the inside
story on that but Franken is ' reserved by somebody ' you have
to use your imagination nobody is talking... I am sure it is an
open secret in bubble town DC put I don't travel in those circles.
Franken often mindlessly [or mindfully, take your pick- he was after all one of the Kerry media elite at that painfully fateful meeting of journalists where Kerry was annointed! I still think Scaife picked up that tab!!!] repeats GOP memes.
He is definitely someone who has made me laugh as a comic & I can enjoy his show when he isn't being precious. But he honestly doesn't "get" a lot of things- as you indicate, vote fraud for one. And at this point there's no excuse- apparently he can't or won't read- and he's even talked to Senator Debra Bowen & not just the "tinfoilhatters!"
So in this way he reminds me of the kind of Democrat that makes certain Democrats seem like they're just a front group enabling the GOP!!! The money laundering operation the mafia hides behind!
Randi, in this case more likely to hide her cards & more likely to be protective of WKC. Both seem to deeply respect WKC when they speak with him.
In any case- I'm noticing that mentions of WKC in connection to this is all clumsily done, as if Wes just recently decided to take this position & backing these generals is something new. I mean I realize this is new in the sense that it just happened, but as we here know in fact WKC has been a trailblazer in this regard from the start- openly defying PNACers etc.
It could be positive that AAR media folk regard WKC as a "politician"- but on the other hand, this really is a GOP talking point- Suddenly now it is: all these generals EXCEPT WKC because he's "political"- will turn to disregard him because he is "partisan"-
But you know something? I think the country grows tired of being so falsely divided & I don't think division will be an effective strategy for the GOP going forward.
'interpretation' of a man with 'real political aspirations'. Has he announced yet? God knows he is lacking any conviction of his own so it would seem he well qualifies as a Dem candidate.
I'm not sure WKC minds being seen as a 'political partisan' - took awhile. heh!
How great must our failure be until we turn in panic and disgrace to a Man of Honor? - Quigley
I know many people are passionate about this issue, but voter fraud issues aside, the democrats juust plain lost the election. I live in Massachusetts, the supposed liberal bastion of the country. Many of the small rural towns around me voted for Bush. My daughters 6th grade class held a mock election and Bush won. The majority of people didn't bother to pahy attention to anything more then the fluff sound bytes they heard on TV or radio. Youi have one camp talking up patriotism and calling the other side evil-doers and America haters. Family value and morality. Irresopective of the fact that the democrats trump the GOP on all these issues, who do you think the typical dissinterested Fox watching citizens wass going to vote for? I've had dicussion with people in the area since the elction and have pointed out numerous examples of how they have been lied to and been taken advatage of. They already know. They are living it. Midle class America has hit a finacial wall and this $3.00 or more gas and the price of other energy products is the last straw for many people. The do not believe a thing coming out of Bush's mouth anymore
The tide has changed. My now 7th grader tells me noone in her classes likes Bush.
Agreed- it's all far too close for comfort & asserting that technically electorally the way the neocon coup was executed doesn't speak at all to the denuded state of American democracy & the conservative slant of everyday America. My neighbors across the street are Bush "deadenders"- still painful to watch so many people vote against their own self-interest.
Sen. Debra Bowen recently - they invited her on his show when he was
traveling and in Santa Barbara and when seh was talking to the audience
he kept interrupting her playing Richard Smalley and finally when she stopped
trying to talk since it was obvious he was pushing her around ... he said
haven't you ever seen SNL don't you know who Richard Smalley is.. and DB said
some of us are up Saturday night reading papers and working on this issue
... his co-host remember her ... she was great ... covered her motive but she
left as soon as she had a career move... Fraken has a H#($*&(*$#&$ on for
power and is like a spoled child it is owed to him he wants it and if you
don't agree he is like a sick bully ... I listened to him on AAR a long time
it was his obstructionism about election protection voter fraud that disgusted
me and I have not listened to him since Thom Hartmann got a program...
before I switched the radio to Thom 12 minutes into Frankens show
THIS MORNING he was saying he did think ANY generals speaking out should be
... that the generals were a problem talking the spotlight off Rumsfled being bad at Sec of Defense... he must
be getting criticism and now he is talking another angle on the story...
he should not have power and I don't like that he is lining up to get
Senatorial power.
Yes, there is a somewhat natural tendency at play here, aided by some who are trying to keep most mentions of Wes Clark off the air and out of print. The fact that Clark has thrown himself strongly into partisan politics (even though Clark's message is not always partisan) does make his opposition to Rumsfeld a little less "news worthy" but it doesn't excuse ignoring it completely.
There is an element of not being able to have your cake and eat it too. Clark campaigns for Democrats so he is tagged as a political figure much more regarding his opposition to the current Bush Administration than a retired General who has not overtly been partisan, or one who is know to be a Republican and therefor obviously is not pushing a Party agenda by calling for Rumsfeld to go. But here again that does not excuse not at least acknowledging that Clark says he was pushed into national politics precisely to stop the dangerous foreign and military policy of the Bush Administration, or that Clark knows more than a little about how the military functions.
The positive flip side to this I think is that the American public now increasingly views Wes Clark as a legitimate political leader. He has grown in stature to be more than the simplistic characture of the "Anti-War General". In an odd type of way this is showing me that many no longer think of Clark primarily as a General at all, he is more seen as a civilian leader who retired from a distinguished career in the military. I don't see that as minimizing respect for Clark's national security expertise, I see it as normalizing his role in the freat national debate civil debates.
I see this saying something positive for the Democratic Party in specific, since Democrats historicly have been less inclined i recent decades to value military leaders than have Republicans. It means Clark is seen less as an oddity, a General in the Democratic Party, and more as a leader in the Democratic Party, who happens to be a distinguished General, which reflects some real healing of Democratic divisions that stretch all the way back to Viet Nam.
Tom, this is a very interesting point, and I think you are right. Wes Clark is Reid's and Pelosi's go-to guy on national security. He is a part of the party leadership.
Historically the General bridged the spectrum of the party very well, especially since the media gatekeepers have labeled him a moderate. But the residual fear of the military, had its lingering adherents. A group of generals rising to the status of “heroes” has certainly changed that dynamic. Yes, there will always be some who can’t get past the uniform, but they are more likely to excuse their nonsupport with comments about his never having held an elected office. Definitely things have changed. Part of that change is that Wes Clark now wears both a helmet and civilian hat. And that’s a good thing.
Last night---late last night for an East Coaster---I had an interesting exchange with a poster at Kos. He said:
I have a new found respect for our military (6+ / 0-)
that is the only good thing that I can say has come out of this god forsaken war. Growing up during Vietnam certianly helped form my views of the military, and it was not because of the soliders, it was the talking head military on the TV every night. Now, those that I distrusted the most in my youth are supporting my beliefs, wow, what do you do? Personally, I support them because in one of those strange twists of fate, we are on the same page, and we want the same thing, for those young men and women to come home and get out from under the thumb of this worthless chickhawk administration.
Since I too had to turn a military corner, I shared his enlightened attitude. But this poster was just the latest shift that I’ve noticed as we transform the Democrats to a “full-service” party. The General has mused about the difficulty we would have in making this needed transition; however recent events may have hastened that process.
As for the media, the mix of reporting on retired generals, sometimes including Clark and sometimes not, has perhaps inadvertently provided a positive balance. My problem is this: considering the terrible mess the country finds itself in, I want the people to receive the best guidance available. Wes Clark has called these events with great accuracy, and while he has said that all he can do is consider the landscape, give it his best shot, and pray. I would say that his best shot is the best shot we have. Placing the opinions of those who have a poor track record on a headline pedestal, isn’t where I want to place my trust. The media and the American people need to hear and heed the General's words because of their earned merit not politics.
The off-line public remains sadly oblivious to the inner-workings of the party although that is no surprise. The greatest obstacles to increasing the General’s effectiveness as a voice for the party are increasing his name recognition, and expanding the issues where his ideas need to be considered. Larry’s statement that Wes is being listened to by the party provides some very pleasant reading and hope. I really wasn’t sure what was going on.
You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.--J. V. Marley
enjoy your posts. This is so well written. thanks!
Unitary Executive Theory is NOT a theory anymore!
I read it last night, Donna, and I can't capture it exactly in my mind at the moment, but I sure remember being impressed by a post of yours I read in that very thread. I wanted to comment directly at the time, but I had just signed on to Kos, and so, not having been w/ Kos for 24 hours yet, I couldn't. So I'll say it here.
I was very touched by what you wrote in that thread... Thanks...
When I see Clarkie posts around the web, they always make me proud to serve with such informed and wonderful writers. We've got soul.
You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.--J. V. Marley
Yes, he's a political figure...now.
But the question the pundits aren't answering is WHY Clark is a political figure now.
As a retired general who cared about his country, he wasn't a political figure at all. He was a non-partisan patriot. His patriotism, knowledge of history, and statesmanship told him that the country was going in the wrong direction. He wanted to do something about it. And the only way to do that is to become political.
Wes Clark served in uniform for 34 years. (38 if you count West Point.) He's been "a political figure" for three years.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
BE THE CHANGE you wish to see in the world.
If not us, WHO? If not now, WHEN?
You'll be pleased to know that at least 2 separate times today, Wolf(f?) brought up Wesley Clark in exactly those terms, Clark along with others who have done the same (such as Colin Powell when he was earlier considering a run for the Republican nomination and Max Cleland, etc.) - that they came out and into public prominence and talked passionately about what they cared about precisely because of their experiences in the military and w/ foreign policy, etc., as Wolf(f?) challenged the Republican advocate regarding appropriateness of speaking out once retired from the military...
Clark naturally came to mind to him in these discussions...
That's why I said above:
"But here again that does not excuse not at least acknowledging that Clark says he was pushed into national politics precisely to stop the dangerous foreign and military policy of the Bush Administration, or that Clark knows more than a little about how the military functions."
My first reaction is much like yours, but on reflection I also saw the other aspects at play, how Clark is now more accepted and regarded as a "leader", without needing "military" to precede that term. It is in a sense related to the point Clark is making about the retired Generals. They ARE civilians now, with full rights and even obligations to participate in civil debates that touch on their knowledge. They should not be muzzled because they WERE Generals, just like we should not be muzzled because our nation is at war.
Other neoconservatives said that the generals’ revolt was
as much to do with bureaucratic infighting as Iraq. “Look,
he’s trying to change an institution that is very set in its ways
and that’s not easy,” said Richard Perle, a former chairman
of the Defence Policy Board. “You’ve got some disgruntled
former officers. It’s no big deal.”
Excellent discussion at the Washington Note on this subject:
Armando has an excellent diary on the front page at Kos.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/18/111140/392
"Some of them put on their cowboy boots and put their feet up on the desk." -Wes Clark
Dude, you didn't tell me about your new blog. Been waiting to see when you would leave the nest at DailyKos.
Wesley Clark has the ability to speak on every issue in understandable terms. He intelligently separates the wheat from the chaff and he is honest and sincere which is quite transparent in this podcast. He's also respectful of those with opposing views about this issue. I've listened to this podcast a number of times -- who could argue against what he has said?
For people who are afraid of dissent, they need to relax and remember that our country was established from dissent. If our citizens will remember this, then perhaps they will begin to set their feet back on the ground and have the courage to say honestly that this administration has let us all down and it's time for change. Truth to Power. Why would anyone want it otherwise? The ones in power who are misleading us today have other designs that do not include the voice of America, namely, WE THE PEOPLE? Unless we speak out with courage, as these Generals are now, we lose our voice and we lose our power to protect our rights, our troops, our standing in the world, and the bottom line is that we lose our integrity as citizens of the world.
Thank you General Clark. I am ever grateful to you.
WESLEY CLARK, THE VOICE OF REASON.
Unitary Executive Theory is NOT a theory anymore!
Sank you!
msbehavin'- what you wrote there should be submitted to Voices from the
Grassroots- why don't you submit it to them? (on the homepage) - it's a keeper
on Thom Harman of Bush didn't say where time/place te tape originated
-- Bush is talking about IRan ... saying " who is saying there is going to be a war with Iran
( this is where I got the quote and I am not paraphrasing ) I hope there won't
be a war with Iran but I am the decider - I get to decide.
I heard Richard Myers (former Chaiman /Joint Chiefs) the other day say that he disagreed with those coming out against Rumsfeld and that he didn't think it was right of the military leadership (past and present) to criticize the civilian leadership. If that's the case, then why does he believe that it is OK for them (like he did) to act as cheerleaders propogandizing the administration's viewpoints onto the public?
Dickie where the heck were you on the morning of 9/11 Meyers.
He and Rummy went "missing" for the longest time while our nation was under attack and the Decider in Chief could only decide to remain seated and enjoy chapter two of My Pet Goat...
Dickie shoulda been kind of handy on that day, not missing in action.
I was waiting to hear from General Clark on this matter of the retired general's speaking out about Rumsfeld's leadership. He did a great job of explaining the military culture of accountability and made a very good case for why accountability should apply all the way up the line of command. I liked how he called out Rumsfeld's "mis-judgements" about the Iraq miltary action. To me this is what it is all about...being accountable for mis -judgements.
One chortle in the podcast...Dickie Myers?
Whenever the generals speak of one another they often use first names: Tony, Pete... The difference with General Myers is that his familar name is just so.... old fashion. The only person that I know who calls my friend "Richard" Dickie, is my elderly father-in-law. Ya just don't hear it.
You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.--J. V. Marley
I had to re-read General Clark’s Alert again this morning so I decided to print it out and re-read it on the subway. When I was at a point reading "I think this country's on a road to nowhere under the leadership of President George Bush" I almost missed my stop!
Because we only have twenty-four hour period, I never really had a chance to find out more about these retired Generals. And for General Clark to take his time and inform us a bit how this all came about and who these brave Generals are is sincerely appreciated and democratic ;). But I do have a question and that is why dismiss Defense Secretary at this time? Well, from what I understood it must be a good time to knock down the rook. Now imagine if Gen.Clark does become Commander-in-Chief? He always has a very careful and thoughtful plan, and I do think he would use that strategy for national security and most likely he would use it in other political endeavors, that is if his final decision is to run for the President in 2008.
And yes, as civilians we are intellectually vulnerable to what is laid out on the table at the Pentagon and White House, and it’s understandable due to national security. So for retired Generals to uncomfortably try to get through to the American people, and perhaps to their loyal United States Armed Forces, is a key to redirecting to what it should be and to even prevent any future President’s misuses of United States Armed Forces. I don’t think we need more senseless wars with no strategy and diplomacy, we don’t need more protest against the war, and as a society we shouldn’t use our soldiers to a point where they themselves are blinded. As it was mentioned many times before from Gen.Clark, this is a different type of war and we need someone who has broader vision besides being expert in his own field. Because as a subway rider, the subway might miss my stop because other vulnerable citizens and I happened to fall into a terrorist’s plot.
Thank you Gen. Clark and Ret. Generals (salute!)
P.S. Reminder to the Republicans, our first president was a General.
She watches tv. I was getting a little discouraged and then I heard Bush's polls have droped to 33 percent, and I heard it on Fox news. If Fox news says Bush is going down, Bush is going down, because it ain't news unless Fox makes it and they must be pissed off at Bush. I would have never thought I'd tip my hat to Fox, but I had to.
Blitzer was talking to Cohen about this topic today on CNN. Cohen said there was one general who resigned over how he thought the war in Kosovo should be fought. Blitzer said, "was it Wesley Clark?" Cohen said, "no" with a horrified look on his face. We all know the real story there and it's ironic Blitzer seems to have forgotten. Cohen did say he didn't think active duty military should criticize the civilian leadership publically and that's what he expected when he was in Rummy's job.