So, why is it that other countries seem to appreciate voting and participating  in the politcal process more than Americans?

Oh boy... USA do have low voting percentages compared to European countries as far as I followed, but it's not like every election or referendum in this region goes like this. This 87% is very high response even for our understanding.

Common understanding in pre-GWBush era was that USA is stable democracy and ordinary Americans have their lifes good just enough, or even better. For that reason, our analysts said, they don't feel the need to participate in political process, since one way or another it tends to turn well anyway with or without everyone voting.

Vedran, do you have any concerns of any geopolitical tensions, resulting fom Montenegrin independence?

Most analysts here agree that independence could only be in favor of further stability in the region. I agree with them, that's why I titled my initial blog entry about referendum "untying the Balkan Gordian knot". Serbian radicals are still strong in Serbia and part of Montenegro, but they are far from the influence they had over ordinary Serbian people during 90s, and it's hard to believe many people in Serbia would go to another war against anyone soon, no matter the reason.

Failure in percentage over 50% but less than 55% for independent Montenegro could turn out really bad. Again, I doubt there will be any kind of even limited range war in that case either, but it would make majority of people who voted in favor of independence raged and disappointed in democratic processes. It might fire occasional incidents (really, any outcome could do that), but what's worst it might kill any wish among ordinary people to select their future through elections or referendums next time(s), since voice of democratic majority wouldn't count anyway.

On the other hand, Montenegrin PM Milo Djukanovic said in the week before the referendum that if even 1 voice wages in favor of independence (50%+1 voice), he will continue to work on the idea of Montenegrin independence.  Otherwise, he was ready to step down and go to opposition.

It's obviously now majority of Montenegrins want Montenegro to gain independence. Only question is if final percentage will go over 55% in favor of independence required by European Commission, or it will be slightly lower.

Non bene pro toto venditur libertas auro.

I guess, as long as it's been peaceful overall and determined to be credible by neutral international observers, then transition towards independence would be readily accepted.

---------------------------

"Debate, Dialogue, Discussion, Disagreement - that's not wrong -that's not unpatriotic, that's one of the highest forms of patriotism and love of country, and we need to say it!" - Gen. Wesley Clark (Ret.)

I already thought of organizing meeting of Clarkies one day in Croatia, and Dubrovnik is just perfect for that.  Yes, the city itself is still beautiful and worth seeing.

Non bene pro toto venditur libertas auro.

I'd love to have us all go there one day. Find us an inexpensive nice hotel. The dollar is dropping against the Euro. We may all have to be on the economy plan or get a cruise ship where we can prepay in dollars and just be docked in Dubrovnik. That could be fun too:) Maybe the NYC Clarkies could arrange a stopover at an airport hotel there for us to meet and then go as a group. Could be more cost effective that way. It's a fun idea.

Best part about that meeting is that Montenegro is just 2-3 hrs away from Dubrovnik driving a car or renting a bus, similar with Mostar. Both worth seeing, so aside of meetings it will make nice sightseeing.

If not sooner, it might be perfect for celebrating 2008 election results. :o) 

Hotels are generally expensive in Dubrovnik (being a popular destination sets a price), but there are possible alternatives for organising a beds for everyone. Anyone here knows William Montgomery?

Non bene pro toto venditur libertas auro.

With a tour of the area and much fun for all. I don't know William Montgomery. Who is he? Is there a university in Dubrovnik with dormitories for students that are available when students are out of school? I made a trip to Budapest in 1989 with a group of teachers from Germany and that's how we were put up on the "tour" they put together for us. We did have a bathroom with the room we shared, much like a hotel. It was just basic living, ot posh, but comfortable. Meals were done much the same way,like a tour as a group, with time off on our own. Our guide was a professor of economics at the University there who had studied in the US and directed toward our interests.

I don't know William Montgomery. Who is he?

He was US ambassador to Croatia. It's not like he ever talked about himself in the media much, but he seemed like more or less important figure somewhere inside Democratic party hierarchy. Since he was ambassador in Belgrade later, he is supposedly responsible for organizing Serbian non-government organization sector in attempts to bring Milosevic down, which in the end succeeded.

But the information because of which I asked if anyone has a contact with him is because he is one of rising number of Americans who have property in Dubrovnik area. He might be of help in organizing visit from Clarkies. :o)

Is there a university in Dubrovnik with dormitories for students that are available when students are out of school?

Basically no. Students that come to stay in Dubrovnik usually live in rented apartments. Available options down there are hotels, hostel near city port and private tourist accomodation (which comes somehow cheaper if you're not staying during the tourist season peak).

Non bene pro toto venditur libertas auro.

Thanks, Vedran.

Maybe you should be the NYC person to organize this with Vedran? It would be fun to dream about anyhow.

LMJ,

I never organized anything in my life except my schedule and my room. I tend to be better in following orders and being the back person… I don’t mind helping Vedran however I am capable…

I prefer to lose with honesty than win with shame…

I'm guessing if someone in NY could arrange where we could all spend the night and go to Dubrovnik together on a flight (much more fun that way) that's about all anyone would have to do. That and maybe contacting a travel agent in NYC who specializes in a tour package for a group of us going that would be within all our budgets.

I can ask my agency that I go to and ask her about a good deal for a group of people wanting to go to Dubrovnik.... but there is no direct flight to Zagreb or any main city, I am afraid, or from what I know... I can keep my eyes open thought.

I prefer to lose with honesty than win with shame…

Tell her it's for 2008 or 2009. Sometimes there are charters that will go direct. I went to Armenia on a charter and it was a very nice jet.

 Contintal has connecting service from Newark for around $1300, advance purchase of course.

Barry

          Are you safer today than you were five years ago?

Don't know if I'd be able to go but I sure would love to...I've wanted to visit Croatia for some time now...I used to have a very good email pal from Zagreb....and I was always fascinated with Goran Ivanisevic when he was still playing tennis. :)

Round trip to Dubrovnik from New York-JFK with stops in Paris and Zagreb is $1854.  Must be a cheaper way??? 

"In too many areas we have spawned 'leadership' that does not lead, that panders to our whims rather than telling us the truth, that follows the crowd rather than challenging us, that weakens us rather than strengthening us." - Sen. Paul Simon

will be better in 2009. This is not the year for the American tourist overseas.

I tried to find out the prices for the tickets and I called two Croatian travel agencies, and they told me that they need numbers of people who are travelling and exact date. One of the agency needed all the names and passport if they were going to give me the price, this is the first time I heard of it…. And as for now, there is no charter planes. Well, there is plenty of time I guess. And in Dubrovnik, I believe there are places to sleep where they rent their apt. to the tourist… my brother did that, and it’s cheaper and nice. Actually, he was in the heart of Dubrovnik where he stayed…very convenient… Anyway, it’s something to keep in mind. Something to day dream LJM LOL.

Wanted to give you this info earlier but was sick for these couple of days. Everyone I spoke to in NY is sick… and we are having weird weather… from cold to humid and warm then back to cold when it’s windy…

I prefer to lose with honesty than win with shame…

Sorry to hear everyone is sick in NY. We are having hot weather in Kansas. All the rain we get predicted for here misses us. I think this is going to be an odd summer. We could have a drought. It's just a hunch. As for Dubrovnik in 2009, it's a long way off and I hear air travel for this summer is really crazy. We may have to just dream about it and find a way to get Vedran over here.

One of the agency needed all the names and passport if they were going to give me the price, this is the first time I heard of it….

LOL, typical. Maybe I should have warned you about practice like this. :o)

And in Dubrovnik, I believe there are places to sleep where they rent their apt.

Yes there are, I believe I mentioned that as an alternative to hotels. Prices per bed vary between 20-25 euros/night for rooms in the old town center, and down to maybe even less than 10 euros/night for rooms further from it.

Non bene pro toto venditur libertas auro.

Vedran, I think you will end up coming here for 2009… LOL. It is quite a trip to Dubrovnik and as a group…

 Having Vedran come here would be great but why give up so easy on at trip to Dubrovnik?

I just noticed yesterday that EasyJet is going to start flying to the Dubrovnik area in June. That alone takes $300 to $400 off of the fare. With a little planning anything is possible. 

Barry

          Are you safer today than you were five years ago?

That is good to know… I guess, who ever is able to financially afford it will go… I mean, whatever will accommodate the best as a group… A lot of things can happen by 2009, but to consider Dubrovnik as an option is an honor for Croatians lol.

Don't panic about the travel, it's way too early. Travel arrangements change year after year, and low-cost airplane carriers just discovered Croatia last year...  Also, who knows how much will US Dollar be worth compared to Euro, might be better than today, or even worse...

Plan the trip and don't be afraid because of current conditions. We'll see when time comes what will be possible.  :o) 

Non bene pro toto venditur libertas auro.

Will look for NYT Dubrovnik article/photo.

wait and see how things are in 2009:) We'd have to come in the summer anyhow, right?

with photo.

'Recently rediscovered as an off-the-radar haven by the international celebrity set and their media-camp followers, Dubrovnik and Dalmatia's many romantic islands and hidden coves provided backdrops for lavish photo layouts in magazines like GQ, which this year proclaimed the Croatia "the Next Riviera,"' 

http://tinyurl.com/r8ajm 

With gas fuel prices this year it's all expensive. Who knows about 2008 or 2009. Maybe there will be alternative air fuel by then. Meanwhile, figuring out some sort of package thing could be the way to go and basically we'd have to find out how many people is the minimum to get a certain price. If Vedran could find dorms that we could stay in it would maybe be even more cost efficient. Then there's my cruise ship idea. So, play around with it and Barry sounds like he may have some good ideas as well. Plenty of time to ask around and chat with Vedran on possibilities later.

No doubt there would be a way to blog the trip for those who can't go. We did that last year in LR.

Thanks

I prefer to lose with honesty than win with shame…

Otherwise I would possibly even be able to travel there to bring first-hand experience and mood of Kosovars, photos... but this is too short notice concerning my plans and the fact I'm financialy broke until friday after celebrating birthday with all the important people over the weekend and partially yesterday. :o)

Will keep an eye on local media though and post everything interesting. It might be interesting to follow Serbian media which tend to political radicals. They will surely find a great hidden meaning in the fact general Clark visits Kosovo in a week right after Montenegrin independence referendum.

Non bene pro toto venditur libertas auro.

The U.S. media will not mention the General's trip. Of that we can be sure. The silence, considering that he works for them, is sad, but to be expected. 

You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.--J. V. Marley 

As Donna says, our media will ignore.

This is not a time for a candidate who will offend no one; it is time for a candidate who takes clear stands and kicks ass.....Molly Ivins

 How great must our failure be until we turn in panic and disgrace to a Man of Honor? - Quigley

And many more happy birthdays to come, Vedran! We are always broke, because it's an election year and we have to help so many people running for elected office to win in November.