For the past couple of months, I have followed several internet discussions about Wesley Clark's "involvement" in the Branch Davidian Standoff at Waco, but I have not seen it mentioned so prominently in a mainstream website until it appeared today in InstaPundit. I have not responded to the various conspiracy theories about General Clark's role because most seem to be generated by people with little or no contact with reality. Indeed, your assessment about General Clark's participation in the Standoff and its aftermath is absolutely correct: he played a peripheral role, at most.

I was General Clark's staff judge advocate at the 1st Cavalry Division. As such, I was his legal advisor and provided advice about military support for the FBI at Waco. In addition, I briefed the 1st Cav's tank crews before they departed Fort Hood.

The 1st Cavalry Division received orders from its higher headquarters - III Armored Corps and Fort Hood - to provide certain equipment to the FBI for its use at Waco. I learned the FBI had made a request for equipment to the Department of Defense, which ultimately sent it through Army channels to Fort Hood - the Army installation closest to Waco. The request was consistent with statute (10 U.S.C. § 372), Department of Defense directive, and Army regulation, and I advised General Clark (or, more particularly, his Chief of Staff) of that fact.

At the direction of the division's Chief of Staff, I later briefed the division's tank crews before they departed for Waco. My guidance to the crews was they could provide the FBI equipment (10 U.S.C. § 372), they could train the FBI on its use (10 U.S.C. § 373), and they could maintain the equipment (10 U.S.C. § 374). I told the crews, however, that under no circumstances could they operate the equipment in support of the FBI's Waco operation (10 U.S.C. § 375).

Incidentally, my office's written legal opinion and the slides used to brief the tank crews were turned over to Congress during its Waco investigations, to the Danforth Commission, and to the United States District Court that heard the Federal Tort Claims Act lawsuits arising out of Waco.

I would be happy to provide additional information, but I believe too much ink has already been spilled over what is truly a "non-issue." Of course, the normal disclaimer applies: nothing in this e-mail should be construed as an endorsement on behalf of or against General Clark.

Richard D. Rosen
Colonel, U.S. Army, Retired
Associate Dean for Administration & External Affairs
Texas Tech University School of Law

http://www.intel-dump.com/archives/archive_2003_11_30-2003_12_06.shtml#1070384580

This is the reality-based community you are speaking to here.

This website is dedicated to exposing WESLEY CLARK as a WAR CRIMINAL and SUPPORTER OF TERRORISM. With the use of dozens of sources from all over the internet, written by various different political groups, from democrats to republicans, the sources will expose Clark as a man who not only led an illegal and criminal war against Yugoslavia in 1999, but also sided and aided a terrorist group with ties to Osama Bin Laden. A terrorist group that today has destabalized two countries and is threatening to start a new war if they are not granted their full demands.

Why don't you occupy yourself looking at Bush's war crimes instead of those that don't exist? Take your fairyland delusions somewhere else.

Anisha

Jeez, Ramsey Clark must have escaped.

So it must be Slobodan himself, escaped and run amuck. Now has a developed a fettish for posting the WACO story multiple times on this thread.

A website, eh? Well, that settles it, I guess. LMAO. Hell, there used to be a website dedicated to proving that Mark Twain was raised by Indians and that his name meant "Writes-With-Feather" in Chippewa or something. There are websites devoted to proving that Elvis is still alive. This stuff is all distortions, smears, half-truths, and outright lies. Have you lost your senses?

Another 1500? Any number is unacceptable. That number of deaths only accounts for another two to three years of occupation. At the rate of accomplishment the present administration is proceeding, we'll be there another 7 to 10 years and will have to reimplement the draft in order to achieve appropriate troop strength sufficient to prevent the rate of death from increasing.
This is worse than not good or just a little bit bad, General Clark. We are in the briar patch stuck to the tar baby.
The U.S. war objectives have been compromised by our methodology (violation of 7p principle; proper preliminary planning prevents piss poor performance), our government's allegiance to big business, and big business's war profiteering. This makes finishing the cleaning up of this mess unprofitable for those contractors making big money while they provide all other non-military services in-country. The longer they linger on, all the more big money they will make off of this sorry situation. Big business and the federal government will continue sticking it to the US taxpayers for this War as long as they possibly can all the while saying that we are going to get out as soon as possible.
What a big stinking mess. Nobody had a plan B and plan A was to make a whole bunch of money under the guise of promoting freedom in a place where it was thought that nobody would care about having a war or not. Our chickenhawks must have thought that they could sell us on the lie, "What's a few lives in return for freedom"? Yeah, freedom to keep the French and Russians from getting any of Iraq's oil. What a crock.

Was under the impression that there is only 1 U.S. oil corporation left. All the others are in foreign control. Thus, I find it hard to see where this imperialistic military action has little direct benefit to the general U.S. public, but great benefit to the major stock holders that own own stocks and related businesses.
This action in Iroc may have geopolitical ramifications that physically scare the daylight out of the other nations, but with the public dept that the neocons are running up. The cards that the OPEC nations and with assistance of our dept holding nations hold, is the possibly of conversion of dollars to an alternate currency. This can cripple the U.S. economically. No money no ability to have military resourses. One only needs to examine the British after WWII to examine the fall from world leadership status.
In conclusion, this war does very little for the general public, and in fact damages the U.S. diplomatically, financially, and creates a situation that may threaten any leadership position the U.S. cares to have in the future. The neocons just don't realize or care that military imperialism went out in last century, and was replaced with ecomomic imperialism. The sicking part is that they are threating the general U.S. population with ecomomic subservance.

So. . . .we should have trusted the UN inspectors. The same inspectors that were in country from 1991 to 1998 and NEVER knew of Saddam's nuclear research program until his two son-in-laws defected in 1996. (One of which was in charge of the program).

The same UN that was on the take in the Oil-for-Food scandal.

And trust Hans Blix, the same UN weapons inpectors that was in charge of monitoring the N Korean weapons program? You know the guys that suddenly announced in 2002 that they have the bomb?

What irks me the most is that all you who are complaining the loudest are the same crowd that would have gone nuts if Bush hadn't done anything, allowing Saddam to get the bomb and then blackmail the whole world. Or worse given one to el Queda.

The world ain't black and white, intel is never perfect. You have to act on what shades of gray.

thewiz

*******TOP SECRET*******
Theodore Andersons "VIPER" Terrorist Terminator Projects
A Viper has fangs and that's what's required to find/locate/detect and terminate the Terrorist!
New Future Defense Systems “Tier A Level”
Twelve new Defense Systems – Ready
These systems could be ready for Beta testing in 2-3 weeks

Tactical Control Area Protection System: Permanent &Temporary
Tactical Control Area Protection Systems: Permanent and Temporary systems - Destroy mortars/shoulder mounted missiles/projectiles/planes - terminate them in flight - and return a response that will terminate the launcher/launchee for the following locations: Homeland Security –USA * Command & Control Sites * White House * Pentagon * Embassies * Airports – worldwide * Military bases * Ammunition Dumps * Refineries * Dams * Train stations * Olympics * Any Important site/location

Helicopter Defense System
Terminate any projectile attempting to shot down our front line helicopters – destroy the upcoming terrorist projectile - return response will terminate the launcher/launchee within 3-4 breaths of the terrorists that pulled the trigger. For: All US Army and Marine Corp Front Line Helicopters

Convoy Defense System
Terminate any mortar/shoulder-mounted missile, find mines, bombs, biological, nuclear and WMD plus transmit a special signal to explode terrorist killing devices - bombs anywhere 24/7 For: Any convoy group/2 Stryker Defense Vehicles per mission/1 Remote Controlled Bomb/Mine Sensor Vehicle

Silent Bomb Detection System
For the USA, installed around any important location and our Nations Freeways - will detect bombs/chemical/nuclear/WMD - mark the vehicle - GPS location so our Nations police forces can find it faster and then stop it. For: Homeland Security * All Government locations, All Airports * All US Military Bases/Sites * All Major Freeway Access points to Cities * Refineries * Dams * Olympics * Nato Countries including Israel and England * Homeland Security * All Government locations * All Airports * All US Military Bases/Sites * All Major Freeway Access points to Cities * Refineries * Dams * Olympics * Nato Countries including Israel and England

Bomb Search/Detect/Response Vehicle
Special vehicle - could be ready in weeks! Explode the terrorist bombs - anywhere! Find where terrorist are building bombs, mines, biological, chemical, nuclear and WMD in homes/residential, commercial, stores, hiding places - auto, and humans and will explode any bomb being prepared to kill us – 24/7 anytime/anywhere! Once this location is detected - it will be painted, GPS’ d and then the response team/reaction force/bomb reaction force, take control - G2 then gleans and removes everything to a safe place. For: Any NATO Country bomb concerns/Homeland Security Setoff present Terrorist bombs/Locate bomb building/holding/storage site/vehicle Mark its location/Provide GPS for Military Bomb Response Team

Centurion: 360 Video systems for protection of new defense system locations. This system could also provide the protection along our borders with Mexico & Canada, to record unwanted terrorist and Drug persons entering into our great nation.

Weapon Stealer: System to relocate Steel weapons/vehicles, extremely powerful metal magnet unit. Super Electromagnetic hung beneath a powerful Helicopter with special under protection for small arms/missile. Fly over War areas; turn on unit over terrorist locations. This unit could pull normal terrorist weapons from their hands – their homes almost anywhere. Remove any vehicle/weapon/mine and take it to the G2 Intel drop off, then to the Destroyer system.
New system for Civil Air Lines: Terminate any upcoming missile, destroy it in flight or allow civil airliner to escape safely – I’m fully aware this has been awarded – but do they know what I do?

USA Border System Protection “Permanent” System: Systems to detect Drugs/Bombs/PERSONS: for anyone entering into the USA; Weight/Scan eye retina/Voice
Imprint sample “Name”/Information for each person recording to be sent to Homeland Security “Super CPU”/for all important human inputs:

Weapon/Vehicle Destroyer: Remove any vehicles/weapons/mines by an Air transport to a drop off location. This location will have two special devices: One to turn any vehicle/weapon into a 3’ x 3’ square and a system to CREMATE the terrorist’s killers

These systems are extremely important – we don’t have the required agents in terrorist countries, my systems will support the agents – when the locations are found and the gleaned information is sent to the worlds Intelligence agencies so they can terminate the links – the resources that are sending terrorist killing devices/materials/tools/information/money.

“God will never forgive us, if we forget those that Die”
With these new Defense Systems, our Boys will come home alive!
These systems are protected

Theodore R. Anderson
Program Manager
Command, Control, Communications, Computers,
Intelligence, Surveillance & Reconnaissance
C4ISR Specialist/Telecommunications/EMI/RFI
Designer, Engineer, Contract Management
PO Box 2913, Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Office 360-336-3057
Ted@fantasiaproductions.com

Instead of a simple yes or no, he should have had a 1 through 10 rating system showing your agreement/disagreement with a particular statement. It would be mauch more accurate poll and would be just as easy to do.

Yes! Yes! Yes! and Yes! to your REAL questions.

NOW, GET BACK ON YOUR MEDS.

If the general was really interested then he should've asked real questons where people could leave their comments and support for their thoughts. What Clark's doing is conducting a poll to see what the popular opinion is... not very different from the Bush Administration's tactics! Leaders need to lead, not follow the popular opinion of what a few supporters say in a survey/poll online.

At least he asked us our opinion, which is more than I can say for whomever you support. Also, to say General Clark would put aside his extensive knowledge and beliefs just because we tell him our own uneducated, although apparently wise, opinions is completely ridiculous. He is just giving us a voice, even if a relatively small one. I trust him to do with it what he pleases because I know he will always do/say what is best for all of us, even you, regardless of popular opinion.

That quote is hilarious. Vision-less?? Goose-stepping?? Coldblooded?? Stunning lack of respect for human rights???

Are we talking about the same group that is putting an end to the 30 yr suffering of the Iraqi people, have a vision of a free and democratic Mid East, promoting democracy world-wide as the best answer to terrorism and poverty??

Apparently I'm a just a bit confused. . . ..

thewiz

Wow, that's great! It's in quotes though- who said it first?

...sorry I didn't make it clear. Forgot to sign my username.

Sybil Liberty

It was sent by email from the actor, singer, political activist Kris Kristofferson to the Clark campaign during the primaries.

See here:
http://campaign.forclark.com/story/2003/12/8/114824/608

And, thanks General, for all you do!

Carol

I gather that you are not often extended the courtesy of being asked for your thoughts and opinions. Your assumptions strain credulity. Evidently you don't know much about U.S. Generals, particularly this one. I recommend doing some homework on Clark's previous testimony. I think you'll find he doesn't worry about nuancing his statements so they don't upset anyone (Do you have him confused with someone else???):

http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/us/hearingspreparedstatements/hasc-092602.htm#WC

General Clark's views and positions on this issue are extensively documented. He's spoken and written at length on the issues in Iraq, always thoughtfully, and with analytical clarity. Among other things, he's written an insightful book on the subject, Winning Modern Wars - Iraq, Terrorism and the American Empire.

There are other examples of his work posted here on this site in the Issues and Positions Papers section, and the Speeches, and Articles and Transcripts sections.

Given his insights, developed from a rare breadth and depth of experience, and the strength of conviction he's shown heretofore, I have no concerns about his asking for opinions from the public about the issues. As a matter of fact, one of the things he's said is that the American public needs to be engaged in dialogue about the current foreign policy situation and the direction of American Strategy in the world and what that will mean to our futures. With this one questionnaire, he's given us a great chance to participate in that dialogue.

Carol/Houston

...it's just that he likes feedback from the "citizens". Supports a public forum for expressing one's views.

You should see his solicitation of your opinion as a courtesy offered, a privilege afforded all of us... because that's the kind of man Wesley Clark is.

Ender I wonder if you've done much in the way of following the General's remarks, articles, speeches etc. in the past?

From what I've seen, heard and read, I've never noticed that he bothers to "concoct a set of nuanced statements that won't upset anyone or cause to much controversy, yadda, yadda, yadda".

I hope you will take the time to become familiar with this fine American Patriot.

Mario Cuomo said, "Wes Clark is a man of whom you can ask a question, and he will look you directly in the eye, and give you the most truthful and complete answer you can imagine. You will know the absolute truth of the statement as well as the thought process behind the answer. You will have no doubt as to the intellect of the speaker and meaning of the answer to this question....So you can see, as a politician, he has a lot to learn."

Ohio Kidds

"...and I will be sharing those on Wednesday."

Wes Clark is all about civil discourse. I believe these questions were posed more for our benefit than his in terms of provoking our thinking and framing the discussion. Judging from the responses here, like a good teacher Gen. Clark has succeeded in making us think. When was the last time a national leader showed some interest in making you think? What a concept.

John in Houston

"I have my own strong beliefs about our policy in Iraq..."

"...and I will be sharing those on Wednesday."

-after I get advance warning about how people feel about things, I'll read the comments on my blog and have my staff work up the survey questions!

But why should anyone make that assumption? The last time Wes Clark testified, he expressed his views, they were not shaped by conventional wisdom, they weren't what the committee wanted to hear, they didn't take his advice, and subsequent facts have borne out that his views were correct. Mr. Perle, on the other hand, spoke to the conventional wisdom which has turned out to be dead wrong. If anyone has a finger to the wind and is seeking to nuance his views so as to express them in a way that does not arouse controversy, that person is Richard Perle. I don't think your assumption is a reasonable one, because it is too detached from the context of the testimony, an on-going dialogue with the HASC and with Mr. Perle against the unfolding facts of the war in Iraq.

John in Houston

It seems you have little or no appreciation for the discussion that is taking place here on this site as a result of Clark asking us those 6 questions. Usually when a poltician asks me a question it is contained within a fund raising letter, and the only free form feedback allowed is a blank space where I can fill in an alternative amount for my contribution to his or her cause. Instead here we have a case where someone like you is free to post a derogatory comment on Clark's own web site that coexista with whatever statement Clarkj himself makes. And you are complaining about it.

I'm sorry but I spend too much time complaining about supposed leaders who have absolutely no interest in what I or anyone else has to think to be sympathetic to your position. I am sorry that you have become so cynical. I find the discussion here valuable for it's own sake. Even, to an extent, your view point.

Huh? He asked for my comments and I told him what I felt

Do you think he does not want to know how I feel?

This is a wonderful opportunity for me to tell him directly that I think he should not pay too much attention to polls, but should focus on good policy.

What if the answer to the Iraq war is not popular? Polling the American people in unscientific weblogs is never going to point that up.

No, I'm not complaining and I do not feel my post is derogatory- it's what he asks for, honest feedback.

I'm sorry you don't like my point of view, or the fact that I am willing to express it here, but I'm not taking anything back.

-Ender

"Nothing is more American; nothing is more patriotic; than speaking out, questioning authority and holding your leaders accountable." -- Wes Clark

For the past couple of months, I have followed several internet discussions about Wesley Clark's "involvement" in the Branch Davidian Standoff at Waco, but I have not seen it mentioned so prominently in a mainstream website until it appeared today in InstaPundit. I have not responded to the various conspiracy theories about General Clark's role because most seem to be generated by people with little or no contact with reality. Indeed, your assessment about General Clark's participation in the Standoff and its aftermath is absolutely correct: he played a peripheral role, at most.

I was General Clark's staff judge advocate at the 1st Cavalry Division. As such, I was his legal advisor and provided advice about military support for the FBI at Waco. In addition, I briefed the 1st Cav's tank crews before they departed Fort Hood.

The 1st Cavalry Division received orders from its higher headquarters - III Armored Corps and Fort Hood - to provide certain equipment to the FBI for its use at Waco. I learned the FBI had made a request for equipment to the Department of Defense, which ultimately sent it through Army channels to Fort Hood - the Army installation closest to Waco. The request was consistent with statute (10 U.S.C. § 372), Department of Defense directive, and Army regulation, and I advised General Clark (or, more particularly, his Chief of Staff) of that fact.

At the direction of the division's Chief of Staff, I later briefed the division's tank crews before they departed for Waco. My guidance to the crews was they could provide the FBI equipment (10 U.S.C. § 372), they could train the FBI on its use (10 U.S.C. § 373), and they could maintain the equipment (10 U.S.C. § 374). I told the crews, however, that under no circumstances could they operate the equipment in support of the FBI's Waco operation (10 U.S.C. § 375).

Incidentally, my office's written legal opinion and the slides used to brief the tank crews were turned over to Congress during its Waco investigations, to the Danforth Commission, and to the United States District Court that heard the Federal Tort Claims Act lawsuits arising out of Waco.

I would be happy to provide additional information, but I believe too much ink has already been spilled over what is truly a "non-issue." Of course, the normal disclaimer applies: nothing in this e-mail should be construed as an endorsement on behalf of or against General Clark.

Richard D. Rosen
Colonel, U.S. Army, Retired
Associate Dean for Administration & External Affairs
Texas Tech University School of Law

http://www.intel-dump.com/archives/archive_2003_11_30-2003_12_06.shtml#1070384580

For your service to America and your counsel to Gen.Clark.

Thank You!

Blaming Wesley Clark for the debacle at Waco HAS been refuted countless times, as you have already been admonished. The military and government agencies are such enormous bureaucracies, that he would have been ordered to cooperate with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tocacco and Fireams that performed the raid, whether he personally disagreed with their tactics or not. It is clear you have not done thorough research on this subject. With all due respect, I suspect you might have read inaccurate information, therefore believing it.

I empathize with you. Recently, I read an article on The Discovery/History/Travel Channel website, stating Henry VIII's second wife Anne Boleyn was executed by guillotine, which was on display at The Tower of London. (!!!) The problem with that? The heinous killing machine would not even be INVENTED for nearly 300 years, and there is an infamous story of the real beheading any scholar could tell you of. The queen's last request, was that a special swordsman be imported from France, as it would be undignified for a woman of her title to place her head upon a block. Indeed, he smote her head off in one blow as she stood. Now, across the Atlantic, Beefeaters guiding American tourists will be sniggering when suddenly asked where the guillotine is. You should be able to believe venerable news sources, let alone internet sites, for accurate information. Let this be an example that you cannot.

Consider the aggregate total of this man's intellectual achievements and public service. Few can stand in that category.

Mary Dove California