General Wesley Clark on Fox News Dayside
August 14, 2006
Transcript by Reg NYC
Juliet Huddy: Both Israel and Hezbullah are claiming victory, as you heard. We had the IDF Captain speaking just a little while ago. He said they dealt a crippling blow to Hezbullah. After more than a month of fighting, 34 days, many killed and wounded, homes and lives destroyed, so who really won? Was there a winner? We have analysis right now with the experts, Retired Army Major General Paul Vallely and former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, General Wesley Clark, both here, both Fox News military analysts. Thanks, gentlemen, for joining us today.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you.
Major General Paul Vallely: Thank you.
Juliet Huddy: General, since, General Clark, since you're in the studio here, we'll start with you. You were able to listen to the Captain, Captain Dallal. What did you think about some of the comments that he was making in terms of the claims that he was making, "dealt a crippling blow," "Dealt a devastating blow" to Hezbullah?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I hope it's true. There's no way of knowing right now. It, it, it certainly could've gone differently. I hope it's worked out okay in the end. We just don't know how many Hezbullah fighters were in there. We don't know what the fortifications were. We don't know what their logistics levels were. But what we do know is: The Israelis continued to meet stiff resistance until the end. So-
Juliet Huddy: So, would you say, would you say after 34 days, that they did, they did underestimate the power of Hezbullah?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I don't know whether they estimated the power of Hezbullah. I know that if I had had the opportunity and I'd been the military commander on the Israeli side, I would have done the operation differently, and, but-
Juliet Huddy: How?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: They had their own reasons. I, I think the ground attack was awfully slow in coming and it was very constrained up front. I know there are reasons for it, and I can't really judge the reasoning behind it. All I can judge is the results. What, in the past, Israel has tried to achieve on the battlefield through decisive battlefield victory-
Brian Kilmead: Right.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Now has to be basically achieved through diplomacy and through the intervention of the Lebanese Army and, and international forces to keep Hezbullah from filtering back in. It's possible, and I hope it works.
Brian Kilmead: General Vallely, they had a plan. Prime Minister Olmert didn't go with that plan. Right? The air power first was something new.
Major General Paul Vallely: Well, well it was for the, for the IDF forces for certain. As General Clark has said, I certainly would've done it much differently myself using more of a blitz warfare type of strategy and tactics, you know, to get behind the Hezbullah positions and circle them and then take out the targets as intelligence provided. But certainly now you see perhaps an Olmert government that's going to be divided, a tenuous cease-fire at best. I don't think a lot of these agreements are going to be abided by, particularly by the Hezbullah, because they'll be heavily influenced by Iran and Syria.
Brian Kilmead: Okay, we have a question from our audience, sir.
Audience member: General Clark, you mentioned international forces. Now that a cease-fire has been declared, what do you think the likelihood is that an international force can actually go in there and preserve peace, and can that force be a UN force, or does it have to be NATO or some other combination?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think it's going to be under the UN umbrella. There's going to have to be a command and control element, whether it's NATO or whether it's a French command and control element really isn't that significant. The real question is: Will the force have the means to prevent Hezbullah from coming in and rebuilding its fortifications and re-arming? And that's going to require the control of the population in South Lebanon, knowing who everybody is in that zone-
Brian Kilmead: Right.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -and a willingness to confront.
Juliet Huddy: General - Generals - just hang on one second. We have to take a quick break, and coming up the audience has some more question. So, we're going to get to those on the other side of the break.
(station break)
Juliet Huddy: Once again we welcome back General Paul Vallely joining us. Where are you, General? That's a nice little painted background.
Major General Paul Vallely: I'm fine, Juliet. How are you today?
Juliet Huddy: (laughs) WHERE are you?
Major General Paul Vallely: Thank you. Out here in the mountains of Montana.
Juliet Huddy: Very, very nice. And also General Wesley Clark joining us today in the studio. You've heard about the interview with CBS and the Iranian President Mahmud Ahmadinejad. He doesn't think the U.S. and Iran will ever have normal relations or they'll have them soon, any time soon. He says, "America will have to change its behavior." He says the Bush administration, quote, "Talks down to Iran." General Clark, you've been a supporter of diplomacy with countries like Iran and Syria - we've had a little back and forth-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We have.
Juliet Huddy: -the two of us on this, on this show - not isolationism. Can you deal diplomatically with Iran's President? He seemed, I mean, when you watched the interview, he seemed to be a rational guy, but then you also-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well-
Juliet Huddy: -here he's the same guy who wants to wipe-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: True.
Juliet Huddy: -Israel of the map.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But he's playing to his domestic opposition, to his domestic support base, which is the tougher we talk to him and the more we talk down at him and threaten him, the stronger his support base becomes. So, what we have to do if we're going to work against their interests and in favor of our interests is have an engagement with them. We've got to dialog. We've got to talk. We may not agree, but we need to talk and sound them out and undercut his ability to mobilize the most radical elements in the Shiite world against the United States.
Brian Kilmead: We understand through the translation, Nesrallah has just claimed, claimed victory over, a strategic victory over Israel, just as everyone predicted. Will he hold to the cease-fire? We'll have to see about that. It's interesting, it all comes back to Iran to begin with, especially that interview last night, Hezbullah, and especially with the role they're having in Iraq. Your question.
Audience member: Well actually, that was my question. There just doesn't seem like Iran or Syria has been held to account for supporting Hezbullah, and I'm just wondering, what's the strategy for holding these two terrorist supporting countries to account for what they've done here?
Brian Kilmead: Where's our leverage, General? Or General Vallely, where do you think our leverage is?
Major General Paul Vallely: Well, I, I'll tell you, we have a lot of leverage if we would use it, but we don't seem to have the political courage to do it. Iran talks tough. They lie. They're deceitful. They cannot be, be trusted. Neither the Syrians, as we've tried on several occasions. So, they've had an opportunity to negotiate and to back down on supporting terrorism and the development of nuclear weapons. They won't do it, because they don't intend to. That is what their goal-
Brian Kilmead: Hey, General, last night he did not deny, this President, that he had 54,000 suicide bombers set to go out if we ever bombed them. Are we prepared to stop suicide bombers around the globe?
Major General Paul Vallely: Well, I'll tell you, we've got to have good intelligence and do what the British have done. But if in fact, if there's one incident identified by Iran of supporting in the United States, then we need to take down Iran very, very quickly, because we cannot tolerate, the world can't, of them destabilizing, not only the Middle East-
Brian Kilmead: Right.
Major General Paul Vallely: -but the world. So, they've got to be dealt with.
Brian Kilmead: General Clark, can we do that?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, we can certainly, we've got plenty of air power and naval power to go against Iran. Can we take it down? Sure, we can bomb it. Can we invade it and occupy it?
Brian Kilmead: No way.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Not yet. Not with what we have in uniform.
Brian Kilmead: Your question, sir.
Major General Paul Vallely: And we don't want, we don't want to occupy it. There's other strategies we can use for sure.
Audience member: General Clark, with all due respect, you mentioned the United Nations to take charge here. They haven't proved very effective in recent years. Don't you think there's an alternative?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, as I said, you're going to do something under the auspices of the United Nations. They don't have any ability to enforce it. This is really up to a lead nation or NATO. Could be France, but then the question is can the, will the French military confront Hezbullah. When you see a man coming in, will you search his car? And when he has electronics in it, will you arrest him, or will you turn him around and send him to come back another time? We don't know. But I'm not overly optimistic about this.
Brian Kilmead: You know, it's amazing too is that, General Vallely, it seems the Iranians are just as upset with the UN as the Americans and UK are. His statement last night, saying-
Juliet Huddy: Yeah, basically saying that the United-
Brian Kilmead: Yeah.
Juliet Huddy: -that they are a lap dog to the United States or something. I'm paraphrasing now, but that's essentially what he said.
Major General Paul Vallely: Well, there's only, there's only a few that know what's going on in the world, I think, that have any faith in the United Nations at all. Anything they seem to touch seems to go south and does not work. As far as international forces, a good NATO command, strong forces that can do, conduct, conduct actions against Hezbullah if they violate any of the agreements would be the better way to go. But certainly if you put it under United Nations, it's destined to be a failure, in my opinion.
Juiet Huddy: General Wesley Clark, General Paul Vallely, thank you guys for joining us today. Appreciate it.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: You're welcome.
Brian Kilmead: And thank you audience for your give and take with the Generals. Two powerful people to a very complicated subject.
