General Wes Clark on the Ed Schultz Show

September 8, 2006
transcript by Reg NYC

General Wes Clark discusses the latest on Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Ed Schultz: Joining us right now, General Wesley Clark. General, great to have you back with us. General Clark, good to have you with us here on The Ed Schultz Show.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, it's great to be with you, Ed.

Ed Schultz:: You bet. Thank you, sir. Serious times we're living in. No doubt about it.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: No doubt about it.

Ed Schultz: General, I don't know if you have missed any of the predictions with what has unfolded in Iraq. I mean, I can, I've gone back, and I've listened to some of the interviews you and I have done on this program from several years ago, and all the things that you were warning about have unfolded in front of our eyes. And, and here we are. I don't, I don't- Are, are we any better off today than we were two years ago?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, probably not. We, we have some political institutions in place in Iraq, and we have some soldiers trained and a few more police trained. We've lost a lot of people. Attitudes have hardened. On balance, were probably not much, not much better off.

I, I do think, I don't think it's hopeless yet if you had the right policies and leadership. Remember, we're not talking about just Iraq. We're talking about the whole region. You know, it's like the, the ankle bone is connected to the, to the shin bone. The shin bone's connected to the knee bone. The knee bone, and so forth. Iraq is in the middle of all these countries. So, when we're talking about what we're going to do in Iraq, we have to also take into account Iran and Turkey and Syria and Jordan and all the rest of the countries that are neighbors there. So, it's a real problem, and it's not just a military problem. But I think there's a way through it.

Ed Schultz: General, you being a former Allied Commander, the situation that's unfolding in Afghanistan right now - NATO's top Commander yesterday urged allied nations to send reinforcements to this Southern portion of Afghanistan. How critical is that region right now, and, and how did it get back to being in this position?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It got back to being a critical region because of the neglect of the administration and the failure to put adequate resources into Afghanistan at the outset four years ago. And it's very critical, and we're in real danger there.

Ed Schultz: If, if you were i-in a situation right there, w-what would you tell the President right now? Here you've got the Taliban, you know, they're, they're back with the poppy industry and, and heroin supplying, what, 95 % of that around the world, and it's, it's fueling money right into the Taliban. What's it going to take in Afghanistan from your perspective?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think it's going to take a completely fresh commitment to Afghanistan, not only military, but economic and social and health. Got to find jobs for people. We've got to find a replacement crop for opium, and that means you can't grow plums to replace opium. Make a lot of money on opium. You don't have to worry a lot about shipping. It doesn't spoil in route. You know, you grow plums, which were famous (chuckles) historically in Afghanistan. People loved them all over the Middle East. You have to have warehouses and big trucks, and they're not worth as much per pound. And I mean, this is an entirely different economics, and these people are doing what's in their interests by growing opium. We've got to find an, a, a replacement for that. This is a nation of 25 million people. They have to eat. They have to live.

Ed Schultz: Are we in a position right now to retool and go back into Afghanistan to, to suppress the, and defeat the Taliban again?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, with the help of the world community, it could be done. It can't be done with the United States alone. No.

Ed Schultz: Well, it doesn't look like anybody's jumping to the table from the world community to do this.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, they aren't, and that's one of our problems. We've got a President who has never understood that even though he's elected by the people of the United States, he has to be able also to represent more than American domestic political interests.

Ed Schultz: General Clark, let's talk about Osama Bin Laden. General Musharraf has cut a deal with the Taliban, and it's- looks pretty ominous to me. And it looks like it complicates things for the United States if they want to get into that region and get the guy who's responsible for September 11th, 2001. What's your take on this alliance or peace accord that Musharraf has signed on with these Taliban forces?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think that we've got to insist that President Musharraf do his duty and crack down on the Taliban and on Osama Bin Laden. He hasn't done so.

Ed Schultz: And do you think that he did this deal to save his own hide?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: No, I think it's just a matter of trade-offs. He, he did a reasonable amount. He though he did his, you know, everything he does against the Taliban is hard. And it's supported by elements in the integrated intelligence service there in Pakistan. And whenever he does it, there are people who don't- takes action against them, they don't like it. He's- his life's in danger. He's under threat. It's a balancing act. We got to convince him that he's going to- about to fall off the horse if he doesn't shift over to the other side.

Ed Schultz: General Wesley Clark with us here on the Ed Schultz Show. General, isn't- could, could someone draw the conclusion that maybe Pakistan is a bigger threat than Iran because Pakistan has got the nukes? And if Musharraf can't defend himself and if by some chance they turn on him big-time in that country, who knows what we could have on our hands with the world? W-what do you make of that?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I do think that Pakistan has always been a particular source of concern in the War on Terror, because it's not only got nukes, but it's, it's, it's a much larger country. It's 125 million people and- 140 million people. And they, yes, they have nukes, but they also have madrassas - so, over 3,000 of these Islamic religious schools that don't really teach, except to teach religious doctrine. And a lot of them apparently produce some pretty zealous adherents. And so, it's a very dangerous situation for us.

Ed Schultz: They always say that the Democrats don't have a plan for Iraq. W-what does redeployment mean to you, and, and how would this work, and, and what would you do if you were the President of the United States right now?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, first of all, of course we've got to get it turned over to the Iraqi government, and our military can't sustain the level of commitment that's there. We've got 140,000 troops there right now. We can't sustain that for another year without even further damaging the all volunteer force - maybe, maybe giving it a mortal injury. So, we've got to, we've got to do something. I, I believe that you should use the hammer and anvil play, Ed. You go to the Iraqis at the political level, and you talk real nice to them but very straightforward, and you say, 'Look, the, the, the militias, they got to go. Take up the weapons. Disband the militias. We'll know if you do it.' And then you use your military as the hammer, and if they don't move fast enough, you actually go after the militias. It's dangerous. It's expensive. It's going to cost lives and treasure, but if we want to succeed in Iraq, it's going to take bold leadership, not just passing this on to whoever takes his place two and a half years from now. And-

Ed Schultz: Do we have enough troops?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I don't know if we have enough troops or not. I'd, I'd like to have a candid discussion with our military leaders, but I don't think they can tell you that until they're given a mission. Right now, their mission is (chuckles) not to ask for any more troops, because they don't think they're there. I'd like to give them an unrestrained mission and say, 'I want to finish this job. I want to get our troops out of there in a reasonable period of time. I want to succeed. I want to hold Iraq together. You tell me what you need.' They haven't done that.

Ed Schultz: Would it matter if Secretary Rumsfeld were replaced?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, no. Not in the sense of replacing- Not in the sense of changing the policy necessarily. Not right away. I, I think the policy is coming from the White House. I think it's George Bush. I think it's election-driven. I think he's trying to hang on for the next two years, take as few losses as possible, make the Democrats look weak. And right now, of course, as an election tactic, he's not talking about Iraq. He's talking only about the War on Terror, parading these fourteen guys up there to be tried, when in fact, Ed, the statistics show that there are more Al Qaeda today - more than twice as many - as there were before 9/11.

Ed Schultz: Do you think the resolve of the rank-and-file of our troops is what it has to be to get the job done in Iraq.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Sure. I mean, our troops are great, and they've got all the, they got all kind of support at home. This is not Vietnam. We've got a wonderful group of men and women in the Armed Forces that want to be there, and the people who are at home - whether they're Democrat or Republican or nonpolitical or whatever - they're all in support of the men and women, and they want to succeed there. But people are frustrated, because they can see the President's plan's not working.

Ed Schultz: Mm hm. Presidential aspirations for Wesley Clark, where do they stand right now?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We'll I'm, I haven't, I haven't really looked at 2008. I'm working 2006. I think it's really about getting the right people elected for 2006. I was so happy to be up in North Dakota last year, and, and, and I just, you know, I, I've been going around the country doing things like that, campaigning for people running for office

Ed Schultz: Mm hm. Do you see the worm turning in America, General?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think there's a tidal wave coming to Washington. I think people across this country have seen enough. They've made up their minds. They know Iraq is not part of the War on Terror. They're increasingly believing that going to war in Iraq was a mistake and that the President's not winning in Iraq, and they're tired of the President trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the American people. Do you realize, Ed, there are actually people in this government who believe that the greatest obstacle to winning in Iraq is the American people?

Ed Schultz:: Yes.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK:: I-it's beyond belief, in a democracy, that, that people who hold high, responsible positions don't trust the average voter, because the American people, they don't have to read, they don't have to read staff studies every day and military intelligence estimates. They're getting it.

Ed Schultz:: Mm hm.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: They're patient up to a point, but they expect leaders to be competent, and they expect leaders to be able to win. This administration has not proved that it's competent - it's been incompetent - and it's not proved that it can win. And the American people can see it.

Ed Schultz: General Clark, appreciate your time so much, great resource for us. Our listeners love to hear from you, and we'll be forever indebted to you for all your help, for helping us get our program on Armed Forces Radio. I appreciate it so much.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thanks, Ed. Good to be with you. B-bye.

Ed Schultz:: You bet. General Wes Clark with us here on The Ed Schultz Show.