General Wesley Clark on the O'Reilly Factor
October 24, 2006
Transcript by Melange
Bill O'Reilly: Impact segment tonight: As we told you in the Talking Points Memo the violence in Iraq has stepped up and so has the press criticism of the war, both designed to influence the election two weeks from tonight. But there's no question the US military must find some new solutions to the chaos inside Iraq.
Joining us now from New York, former NATO Supreme Allied Commander and Fox News Military Analyst, General Wesley Clark. You know, this war is demoralized American, I believe, American people…most of us want the USA to prevail in Iraq - most of us, but we understand that the war isn't what we started to fight three and a half years ago. We're now fighting Iran. Iran's behind a lot of these Shia militias that are gunning people down. So now that it's changed, what new strategy would you employ if you were in charge?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I'd be looking at a three-level strategy, Bill. I think first we have to talk to countries in the region. We must talk to Iran. We must talk to Syria…and Kuwait and Jordan. But it's Iran and Syria that we've resisted talking to. They're part of the equation whether we like it or not and we need to be talking to them.
Secondly, we've got to strengthen our ability to maneuver politically inside Iraq and that means a stronger team, more incentives - positive and negative for the Iraqi politicos.
And finally, our military needs to not only train and provide security but they provide crucial political leverage and we need to be very forthright in using them for that. I think we also have to be really serious about the objectives.
We're not going to get a democracy - not a western democracy, in Iraq. Our goals should be minimal. We should try to hold Iraq together, not have it become a source of conflict and then the Iraqi people will have to decide really their form of government and <crosstalk> how much federalism there is there.
Bill O'Reilly: I think the Iraqi people…barring some kind of miraculous change, the Iraqi people have decided. They've decided they're going to put up with people killing each other because they couldn't exist without the bulk of the Iraqis saying 'okay, you're Shiite, you kill this person; I don't like the Sunni, you kill there' because, and the reason I know that is because Kurds up in the north, they're fine. There's no problem up there. They're all united, they have their little democracy. They have their little deal. They're not…but down…they want to kill each other. And that leads me to a situation that…you're right - I don't think you're going to get a democracy as we know it, inside Iraq. So we have to throw in with the strong man or divide the country into three.
Right?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well I think what we need to do is put a team together, go over there and deal with each of the factions, talk to them, lay out our conditions. We did this in the Balkans…<crosstalk>
Bill O'Reilly: We've been talking to them for three and a half years.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: No we haven't, not from the right perspective. Go in there with what our conditions are. What are our conditions - our troops are leaving, you're going to take charge of the country, we'd like Iraq to stay together if possible, what is it that keeps you from doing this? And then lay out the puts and takes of each of the factions and try to work them together. Our diplomats know how to do this. <crosstalk> We did this in the Balkans.
Bill O'Reilly: I…I don't know
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It can be done in Iraq.
Bill O'Reilly: Yeah but you separated in the Balkans.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We did.
Bill O'Reilly: You separated them and that's the key. I think you got to separate…
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We did, and maybe that will have to come.
Bill O'Reilly: I told President Bush last week, I said…
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But when it comes, it has to be their decision, not ours Bill. You can't do this with an 8,000 mile screwdriver. This is their decision.
Bill O'Reilly: But you can do it with this. You can do it with an 8,000 mile hammer, saying 'look, if you don't try…'
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: That hasn't worked so far.
Bill O'Reilly: Well if you don't try it, we're gone. We're gone.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Listen, we may be gone anyway. The separation…you don't want every Iraqi who loses his life or loses a home or loses their job to come back and say 'it was President Bush who made me move out of my house'. That's the Iraqis' decision to make. We may be there, we may be talking to them but we should not direct, from Washington, a separation of the country into three parts.
Bill O'Reilly: See, I don't have any confidence that a conversation with Iran…maybe Syria, you might be able to buy them, but Iran wants to cause trouble for the USA. It wants to weaken us; it's part of the worldwide jihad. It wants to kill every jew on the planet. Um, I don't have any confidence they're going to do anything. I think they like this. They think they're winning. So when you have a hand like that, um…it's almost impos…it's like the North Korean guy - he's a nut. You can talk all day long and he's going to say 'sure' and then do what he wants.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Maybe, but Bill I think the Iranians know that they can lose in this situation too because if Iran takes strong action and is seen active in Iraq, the only thing that happens is they draw Sunni money in against them and the war will expand. I don't think Iran wants to re-fight the Iraq-Iran war. <crosstalk>
Bill O'Reilly: Okay, you may be right. Saudi Arabia…
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: …shifted 40 miles. We need to be talking about this. We need to be talking with them. We need to work with people. We're the most powerful country in the world. We've got to be able to talk to people. Of course they lie to you, but they also give away their game plan and you build relationships and you might get something out of it. <crosstalk>
Bill O'Reilly: Okay, General. I'm not opposed to chatting. I just don't know if it's going to do any good.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I call it diplomacy, not chatting, Bill. Diplomacy.
Bill O'Reilly: Okay, you can call it whatever you want, General - you're still moving your lips. Um now, I have to ask you this question because it looks like your political group, WesPAC, accepted $75,000 from far-left bomb-thrower George Soros. You've got to be careful here, this is a bad guy.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We accepted money from a very responsible financier because he wants to see Democrats in office and that's what I've been working on.
Bill O'Reilly: Are you talking about Soros?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: You're darn right I'm talking about Soros. Have you read his books?
Bill O'Reilly: You like this guy?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Have you read his books?
Bill O'Reilly: Have you read my book?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I've read your book.
Bill O'Reilly: Have you read my book?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Have you read his book?
Bill O'Reilly: I have read portions of it.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: You're not answering my question.
Bill O'Reilly: I've read parts of it.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, you ought to read it. He's a guy who's pretty experienced. He's called a lot of things right and he's done a lot for the world in Eastern Europe and so forth.
Bill O'Reilly: He doesn't want a war on terror, General.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Oh, he does. He wants to win the war on terror.
Bill O'Reilly: No he doesn't.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But let me tell you something, Bill. If we want to win this war, we've got to win it on several different levels and the military is the last, last, last resort. You've got to win the battle of ideas.
Bill O'Reilly: I understand that. I want to bring you back. I want to bring you back in the next week or so because Soros wants open borders, a one world government, legalized narcotics, and I don't think you want any of that. So we'll bring the General back and talk to him about Soros.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, let's talk about it all.
Bill O'Reilly: We will. It'll be like a little negotiation, you know.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We'll call it diplomacy.
Bill O'Reilly: Alright. Still moving your lips.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: You're darn right.
Bill O'Reilly: Thanks a lot, General.
