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General Wesley Clark on the Stephanie Miller Show
February 27, 2007
Transcription by RegNYC
Stephanie Miller: We just played some clips of General Wesley Clark on O'Reilly last night. It just, it is, it's a little pool of sanity in an (laughs) otherwise completely fact-free zone there on Fox News. If only someone could inject some sanity into this show. That would-
(phone rings)
Stephanie Miller: Who is it Chris?
Chris: It's General Wesley Clark.
Jim Ward: Get out.
Stephanie Miller: Get out. Just get off my- there it is.
(trumpets)
Stephanie Miller: General Clark, good morning
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Morning.
Stephanie Miller: I, I love that you indulge me. (laughs) We love have-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: (laughs) I like being on your show, Stephanie.
Stephanie Miller: We love having you. You know what? I have to- I said that you should have been up for on Oscar, because that respectful look that you maintain on your face when you're, when you're watching, you know, Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity explain military strategy to you.
(laughter)
Stephanie Miller: That is, that is so classy.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: (laughs) You have to listen intently, because you never know what they're going to say.
(laughter)
Stephanie Miller: (laughing) Yes, yes exactly. Now you have a new website, which I find the title disturbing, stopiranwar.com.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well I, we picked that title, because I think that's the issue that's at stake here. If we don't pressure this administration into taking the appropriate steps now, we're going to be confronted 18 months from now or less with the administration coming back and saying, 'Well, you know, the diplomacy failed, and now there's no choice but to attack Iran,'-
Stephanie Miller: Yeah.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -and asking the American people to support it.
Stephanie Miller: Yeah, I- General Clark, I have to tell you my voice guy here, Jim Ward, has been saying this for two years, and I'm like, 'Yeah, but he's just the guy that does the funny voices.' Now General Clark is saying it-
(laughter)
Stephanie Miller: -and, and it's, you know, I mean literally it's like the same headlines. You know, Cheney warns about Iran. You know, the, the IAEA, you know, says that our intelligence has been wrong on Iran for the last two years. And then the third story over the weekend, U.S. has an attack plan for Iran. It's, it's, you know what I mean, it literally is like it seems like the same playbook from Iraq.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I know. It sounds a lot like Iraq. The difference is that (chuckles) in the case of Iran, it really, there is a problem with Iran, and we need to bring Iran in from the cold. We need to integrate them into a security dialog in the region and persuade them that they don't need nuclear weapons.
Stephanie Miller: Well-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We haven't done that. We had Iran in 30 years of isolation. We won't talk to them in any official capacity. I'm sure there's some behind the scenes dialog, but it's not at a level that makes any difference.
Stephanie Miller: General Clark, this is going to sound naive, but you know, as you know the story's about that Iran offered us a deal (laughs), which of course, we, we-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Oh, two or three times.
Stephanie Miller: Yeah, I mean, I-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Two or three times. We've rebuffed them, because the administration has to pay a political price with its right-wing supporters if it talks to countries like Iran and North Korea. The case in Iran is very much similar to the case of North Korea. You know how, for four years, the administration says, 'We won't reward North Korea until they agree to get rid of their nuclear weapons. We won't reward them by talking with them.'
Stephanie Miller: Right.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: So finally, after four years, after they've produced nuclear weapons and tested nuclear weapons, the administration finally had to agree to meet with North Koreans privately-
Stephanie Miller: Right.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -in Berlin. As soon as they did, there was a deal. And what do we do? We're rewarding North Korea with 50 thousand metric tons-
Stephanie Miller: Mm hm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -of fuel oil.
Stephanie Miller: Yeah, the same deal- Right.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -just to keep the discussion going.
Stephanie Miller: Yup. The same deal that, you know-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Flip-flop.
Stephanie Miller: Now they're just further ahead.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It's a flip-flop.
Stephanie Miller: Same deal with, that they criticized Clinton for, and now they're just farther ahead in, in you know.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Exactly.
Stephanie Miller: But, General Clark-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It's also an administration flip-flop. Let's, let's make sure we understand that. In this case I approve of the flip-flop, because their original policy was wrong. So, now I'm calling for the administration to flip-flop on Iran.
Stephanie Miller: Yup, yup. General Clark, I- this is going to sound naive, but I think I, like you, I, I don't like to ascribe, you know, evil motives to people, whether it's in the administration. You know again, it's not a Republican or a Democrat thing, but what, why would people want to go to war, General, people like you that have been to war. Do you know what I mean, like what- it, it seems like they're doing everything they can to make, to, to have it be war and not be solved diplomatically like they're saying. Why? Is, I mean, don't you think just about everybody, including the Generals, there's a story out today, might quit over Iran. They know it would be a disaster.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, because these people that are pushing for it, for them they don't see war as war. They see it as an intellectual problem. It's like the solution to an algebraic equation: pressure + resistance = the need to apply force. It's ninth grade algebra, but when you are actually there and you see it and you realize how permanent and damaging war is, you do everything possible to avoid it.
Stephanie Miller: Did- have you heard this story as well that they're reporting several top U.S. military commanders would likely resign if the Bush administration uses military force.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I've heard it, but I don't have any confirmation of it, and honestly I just don't know, I don't know whether- I, I think the real thing to do is, is the Generals have to privately tell the administration not to do it and confront Cheney. And then, if the administration-
Stephanie Miller: Right. But, but they get fire if, if they-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -decides to do it, that's up to them to resign. Well, if they-
Stephanie Miller: Right, but of they don't tell the administration what they want to hear, they get fired, General.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, that, that, that's okay. That's what Generals get paid to do. I mean-
Stephanie Miller: Mm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -after you're General, you've been a General.
Stephanie Miller: Mm hm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It's not like a lifetime entitlement.
Stephanie Miller: Mm hm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: You do what's right, and if people don't want to do what's right, you think its wrong, you have the right to retire-
Stephanie Miller: Right.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -or be fired.
Stephanie Miller: Right.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I, I, you know, I didn't stay in my job forever. I stood up to a Republican Secretary of Defense, did what I thought was right. He thought it was wrong, and he wanted to get rid of me.
Stephanie Miller: Mm hm. Mm hm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But, you know, I won a war with my strategy-
Stephanie Miller: Yup.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -not his.
Stephanie Miller: Yup. Well General, here's, you know, where we find ourselves on Iraq that I, you know, as I keep saying, I don't think any of us imagined that we would have a President that just does not listen to anybody - you know, not the Generals, not the Iraq Study Group, not the American people. And so, you know, there's two headlines today, which I know that a- are going to really infuriate a lot of people. Number one, A NEW POLL OUT: MORE AMERICANS TRUST CONGRESS OVER BUSH ON IRAQ, POLL FINDS. Second headline, DEMOCRATS BACK AWAY FROM IRAQ PLAN. You know, I think the, the American people, I understand, you know, the, the constraints the Democrats are under, and yet I think people feel frustrated. They're like, 'We put you in to stop this war. We want this war stopped.' What do you think the Democrats can do? What can they do? What should they do?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think the lost important thing is to focus on the need for diplomacy. It, this is not really about troop strength. I think the strategy for the surge, it, there's no change in strategy. I mean, that's just a tactic. The Bush administration's strategy is still 'stay the course'. I think what the Democrats have to do is find the things that the administration is- wants, and put pressure on those things, whether they're connected with the Iraq war or something else. Maybe it's the confirmation of Republican judges. I don't know, but this administration needs to talk to the countries in the region. If it doesn't put diplomacy in place-
Stephanie Miller: But, General Clark, they can't even be honest.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -our soldiers, our effort is wasted.
Stephanie Miller: Are you- Exactly. I mean, how, you- what do you, what do you do when, you know, they can't even be honest about what's happening in Iraq? We're sending our soldiers into the middle of this civil war. More of our soldiers are being killed by the Sunni insurgents, who are funded by Saudi Arabia than are, than are being killed by, by anybody that Iran is helping. How do you solve this when they won't even, you know, be honest about what's happening?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think you've got to continue to put pressure on the Congress and on the American people, and I thought the non-binding resolution was a good first step.
Stephanie Miller: Mm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: The question is, where does it go from there? I think you need a continuing series of resolutions that express the will of the American people. And I think you need to start tightening down through the authority of Congress to investigate, to subpoena data, to require witnesses to come up, and then to handle funding issues to put pressure on the administration to do what needs to be done. You cannot direct-
Stephanie Miller: Yeah. I mean, I, I honestly, I feel sympathy for both sides, General. I feel sympathy for the Democrats who are really trying to, to really figure out how to stop this, and, and for the American people who are enormously frustrated with all of them at this point, saying what, you know, 'Why can't you coalesce around one idea. Why can't,' you know- But I, I think it is just enormously frustrating.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It is frustrating. Congress can't direct strategy. That strategy has to come from the White House, and that's the way the Constitution's set up. You can, you must put the pressure on the Commander-in-Chief. And-
Stephanie Miller: Speaking of-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -the American people can do it.
Stephanie Miller: Yeah.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Put these petitions in.
Stephanie Miller: Speaking of Commander-in-Chief and the White House, General-
Jim Ward: Oooh, God.
Stephanie Miller: What?
(laughter)
Stephanie Miller: I was just wondering, you know, did you- were you calling to declare for President? You know I ask every time, because I have to, because so many people ask me. Are you thinking about it?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I haven't said I'm not going to run. Yes, I'm thinking about it.
Stephanie Miller: (gasp)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Absolutely. Every day.
('Hallelujah' plays)
Stephanie Miller: Okay, you just made my morning. (laughs) Really? How soon-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think it every day.
Stephanie Miller: You're thinking about it. Think, think harder, okay (laughs) because, because I-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It's- You know, it's very, very early.
Stephanie Miller: I know, I know.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And I know why this is being done. I understand that, that, that there are very strong forces acting out there. It's very early for people to really to get into this campaign at this point. I'm not a professional politician.
Stephanie Miller: I know.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I am interested in the issues, and I'm gratified-
Stephanie Miller: That's exactly why we need you.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -by the tremendous support on this Iran, stopiranwar.com
