General Wesley Clark on The Ed Schultz Show

June 18, 2007
transcript by Reg NYC

Ed Schultz: Interesting story over the weekend: I believe I was on CNN back in January saying that I don't think this is going to be the last surge. This most recent vote to fund the troops for this escalation, I have predicted many times that this isn't the end. It's only the beginning. And now General Petraeus says stabilizing Iraq could take as long as a decade, and they're saying that 40% of Iraq is control- out of control. What is, what is it? This means we're going to be around for a long time. Petraeus also went on to say that he thinks historically, counterinsurgency operations have gone to last at least nine to ten years. Now, this isn't the kind of talk we were hearing before the vote in the Congress. It was, 'Okay, we'll come back and give you a report card in July, which is a few weeks away, and then again in September.' And they'll need more money for operations then. And some of the outlandish comments that have been coming out from some in the Senate, like Joe Lieberman made the comments that, you know, 'Maybe we should be attacking Iran. We can't take that off the, off the table.' Is it a good idea to arm Sunni insurgents to fight Al Qaeda? All of this needs to be addressed.

No better man to do that than General Wesley Clark, who joins us here on the Ed Schultz Show. General, great to have you back with us.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Nice to be with you Ed.

Ed Schultz: General Petraeus says stabilizing Iraq could take as long as a decade. You agree with that?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Yes. I do. I think it could, and that's only if we do the kind of diplomacy and political work that needs to be done and we can resolve the issue of Iran and the Palestinians and the Israelis. And all that is interconnected and basically bubbling along out of control.

Ed Schultz: Well, then this surge talk was really window dressing, General. Is that fair to say?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, the surge talk was about troops and tactics, and what we should've been talking about was strategy and policy.

Ed Schultz: So this-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -And it's the administration's continuing effort to rely excessively on the military, to want to talk about troops and tactics as though there's some magic there in the military that makes all other problems disappear. It's not so. Any General will tell you that you've got to have the full balance of the strategy. You've got to have the right diplomacy in the region. You've got to have the right politics on the ground to succeed, and the trouble is we haven't had that in Iraq. We've been saying in for over four years. We don't have it yet.

Ed Schultz: General Wesley Clark here on the Ed Schultz Show. The website is securingamerica.com . General Clark, if things won't improve by September, this means that the Congress is going to have to go back and fund, continually fund these operations. Is that correct?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think even if it does improve in September, the Congress is going to continue to have to fund the operations.

Ed Schultz: We're going to have this vote all over again then. Aren't we?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We're going to have this vote for the next few years unless something catastrophic happens that causes us to reconsider and pull the plug on the whole operation.

Ed Schultz: If we were to do that, pull the plug on the whole operation, what's your prediction as to what would happen, General Clark?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We'd, um, we, we'd have a hard time disengaging from the region, Ed. We've got security responsibilities to the Gulf States. We've got Security interests with Israel. We've got friends in Lebanon. We've got many different issues that are effected by the outcome in Iraq. So, If we pull the plug on the operation, you could probably physically remove the troops in six to eight months in good order.

If you saw a larger war go, would you want to be back in? How 'bout if you saw Al Qaeda taking over provinces? How 'bout if you saw the collapse in the West Bank and aid flowing in through Syria from Iran and a corridor being cut across Iran, across Iraq by the Iranians to facilitate that, and you saw widespread deployment of, let's say, Iranian Revolutionary Guards inside Iraq, would you want to be back in at that point? And so, I, there's so many unpredictables in this that I'm one of those who's counseled against just getting frustrated and pulling the plug.

I wouldnt've gone in in the first place. It was a huge strategic mistake. We have to find the right way to back out of this.

Ed Schultz: And doing that is almost impossible in your opinion. So, we're, we're in it, and we got to make the best of it somehow. And the best thing we can have happen is for the Iraqis to a-accept what's going on governmentally and get involved in the process and, and Americans are feeling like that's a pipe dream at this point. How could we have gotten all of this so wrong? And I'm just hearing you, General, say that, you know, we're so, we're into this so thick it- there are just few options that we have at this point.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And with each succeeding month, the options diminish. The people that we could talk to on the ground in Iraq are compromised. The leverage that we hold over Iran erodes. The strength of the Israeli position weakens. With each successive month, we've been getting weaker. Now, the Saudis put in a good strategic effort over the last eight months to try to salvage this. It hasn't worked.

Ed Schultz: What about arming Sunni insurgents to fight Al Qaeda? Is that a good idea?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, that's one of the issues, and certainly if we can strengthen localities inside Iraq, and if we can be sure they're actually fighting Al Qaeda, that's a good thing. But what if, in doing that, they're bringing Al Qaeda in and not simply strengthening the resistance to Al Qaeda? That's what we don't know about. Apparently, some of the weapons that were-, I'm told that some of the weapons that ended up in the refugee camps in Lebanon, that the Lebanese Army's been fighting against, because the weapons were being used by Al Qaeda in Lebanon, those weapons were paid for as part of the Saudi initiative to arm the Sunnis to fight against Iran.

Ed Schultz: What a mess. What an absolute mess.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It is a mess. It's a really difficult set of issues.

Ed Scultz: Joe Lieberman, the Senator from Connecticut made some interesting comments about Iran, and I believe you responded saying that they were irresponsible. You stand by that?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Oh, of course, yeah. I, I- There's, there's no, there's no, nothing to be gained at this point by saber-rattling. What the United States needs to do with respect to Iran is talk to Iran. W-we may have some interests we can work on together. It may not be too late. It may be too late, and we're going to be coming up soon on the horrible question of whether we live with the Iranians with this government with a nuclear weapon, or whether we try to take military action to try to stop them from acquiring such a weapon.

Ed Schultz: So, we're nearing a crossroads with the Iranians?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Within 12 months, according to the intelligence, the unclassified intelligence that, that I'm reading - yes.

Ed Schultz: That's a big statement.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It's a very dangerous time coming up, and many people in Washington believe that, you know, we're over the hump on this, because the President's done so poorly in Iraq that he couldn't possibly imagine taking action against Iran. But there's still a strong group on the White House that's pushing for that very action.

Ed Schultz: General Clark, so many people revere your opinion when you're on this program, the response that we get. Are you going to jump in the race for President and-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well-

Ed Schultz: I, I mean, the, the, the general response we get back is that the only person that has really spoken any consistent sense over this is Wesley Clark. I'm-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Ed, I really appreciate that. I haven't said I won't run, but I haven't made that decision yet.

Ed Schultz: It's still an option.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It's still an option.

Ed Schultz: General, great to have you on. I appreciate your time so much. I know our audience does too, and thank you for the sobering message as to what we're living with.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I wish I had a better message, but I'll tell you this, Ed, that there is a way with the right leadership for the United States to maneuver its way out of the jaws of the trap that we're in in the Middle East. It can be done with different leadership in Washington.

Ed Schultz: securingamerica.com 's the website. General Wesley Clark with us here on the Ed Schultz Show.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you.

Ed Schultz: General, thanks so much.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you.

Ed Schultz:You bet.