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General Wesley Clark on the Stephanie Miller Show
June 26, 2007
transcript by Reg NYC
Stephanie Miller: Speaking of MSNBC, if only someone, someone from MSNBC could call (laughs) that has formerly been trapped in right-wing world on Fox News like I have every now and again.
(phone rings)
Stephanie Miller: r: Someone like that. Chris, who is it.
Chris: General Wesley Clark.
(phone rings)
Stephanie Miller: What? No Way!
(trumpets)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Hello?
Stephanie Miller: Good morning, General Clark. (laughs)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Good morning. How you doing?
Stephanie Miller: I'm, I am so happy to hear from you, and I'm so happy you're out of Fox News. I mean-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I'm-
Stephanie Miller: You've been in enemy territory before, sir, but-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: (laughs) Well, I'm really happy to be on MSNBC.
Stephanie Miller: You're terrific.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And to be on the Stephanie Miller Show.
Stephanie Miller: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well you know, I have to say, I, I, I always said this to you is I, I don't know how you did it, how you would keep a straight face when you, you know, Sean Hannity would explain military strategy to you and stuff. But you were really an officer and a gentleman.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: (laughs)
Stephanie Miller: (laughs) So, so what-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, it was an adversarial interview at times, but, you know, I was reaching some people that might not've heard me otherwise.
Stephanie Miller: No, I have to say, I, I was actually amazed that they had you on, because, you know, they, they, y-y-you just make the case so well for just common sense. You know? Wh-why did you make the move to MSNBC?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I like MSNBC.
(everybody laughs)
Stephanie Miller: I don't, I don't blame you. Me too. So General Clark, speaking of military strategy, what- this surge, you know, we even have now the first Republican Senator, Richard Lugar saying this, this is not working. W-what, what's your take? I mean, that, that's significant. Isn't it? We have a first major Republican saying we need to change course.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think, I think anything Richard Lugar says you have to listen to, but I've said all along we need to be talking about strategy and policy instead of troops an tactics. There've never been enough troops in Iraq. That's a fact. The 30,000 we put in there is not enough to make a strategic difference. We're focused on Baghdad. We may be making some headway in Baghdad, we may not be. We've driven a lot of the insurgents out of Baghdad and now we're pursuing them, and there's still car bombing going on in Baghdad. So, I don't know of we're making any military progress or not. Some of my friends tell me we are. But the point is that we're not making any strategic progress. We don't have the political agreements in place in Iraq. We don't have Iran and Syria working to control and contain the violence in Iraq. So, therefore we're no closer to a desirable end state of the U.S. commitment in Iraq.
Stephanie Miller: Well, General Clark, I don't know if you saw Jonathan Alter wrote a piece this week in Newsweek about how, you know, Democrats, obviously if you look at the polls, are starting to take the blame for the President's war and, and what they need to do. And he said, you know, they need to better articulate what has been called 'strategic redeployment,' that we need to get out of there and, you know, redeploy to, to somewhere else in terms of being able to target Al Qaeda. What do, what do you think of that?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I do think that there's work to be done. I'm not sure that you're going to use these infantry troops that come out to target Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda's in a lot of countries that we're not, I hope, going to invade.
Stephanie Miller: (laughs)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I don't think we're going to invade Indonesia or West Germ- or Germany or Britain or Morocco, and yet we know there's Al Qaeda in all of those countries. Sudan is another one. Well, we may be around the periphery of Sudan. We're certainly working with the Ethiopians against Somalia. But the point is that you can only do so much with conventional military force. It's the last, last, last resort.
Stephanie Miller: General Clark, what would you advise the Democrats to do in terms of i-i-in terms of Iraq?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Elevate the discussion. Get off the troops and tactics, and get into strategies and policies. Look, Stephanie, this administration wanted to remake the Middle Eastern map. They wanted to force regime change in five or six, seven different countries when they invaded Iraq. That was the plan - seven countries in five years, ending with Iran. Now, the administration's never formally acknowledged that was its strategy. So, we don't have any published strategy, and they certainly haven't recanted that strategy. In fact,-
Stephanie Miller: Right.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK:: -my guess would be that guys like Dick Cheney strongly believe that they're going to go after regime change. Now, imagine yourself-
Stephanie Miller: And apparently, apparently-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -in Iran.
Stephanie Miller: Mm hm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK:: Just imagine yourself-
Stephanie Miller: Mm, hm mm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK:: -in Iran. Okay? The United States of America has forces on your Eastern border in Afghanistan. It has forces on your Western border in the Persian Gulf. It's on your South in the Arabian Sea. It has air bases on your North. It can fly over. It can send Special Forces. And there's an insurgency that rumor says is being supported by the United States against Iran, and the Secretary of State of the United States has gone to Congress and asked for 75 million dollars to overthrow your government. They call it in Washington 'regime change'.
Stephanie Miller: Mm hm, mm hm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And so, would you feel like, if you were in Iran, that you had to sort of take some action, or would you sit there and be a punching bag? So, when people in the United States believe that the Iranians are a threat, I don't disagree. They are a threat, but our actions don't allow us to change the relationship. We've got to change our actions. We've got to re-look at our strategy, and Democrats need to be talking about this.
Stephanie Miller: Mm hm, mm hm. Speaking of Dick Cheney, I, I guess he can invade Iran, because apparently, he is not governed by any rules of any kind.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: (laughs)
Stephanie Miller: He is not part of any government.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think he may be the fourth branch of government.
Stephanie Miller: (laughs)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Maybe a fifth branch. Who knows!?!
(everybody laughs)
Stephanie Miller: He's, he's, he's Dick Vader. He's his own star system.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: (laughs) It's astonishing.
Stephanie Miller: What? I mean, is this the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, it's- I was listening to television this morning, and a very reputable foreign policy analyst who was Condie Rice's Deputy said he would always listen to Dick Cheney. He's a very serious, thoughtful man. I'm sure he's a serious, thoughtful man. So were a lot of people on the wrong side of history.
(everybody laughs)
Stephanie Miller: Yes. He's-
Chris: Joseph Goebbels. He was a serious guy.
Stephanie Miller: He's very serious about his wrongness. But, I-I mean, I-I, it just- Does the White House not get how laughable their explanations is? I believe the spokesperson said yesterday that Bush does not see Cheney- He's a conjoined twin. He doesn't see Cheney as separate from himself. (laughs) And yet, he's not part of the Executive. Does that make any sense to anybody?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think that, I think the White House thinks they can buffalo their way through this. I think you have to listen to Rush Limbaugh and be able to take-
Stephanie Miller: Oh.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -Rush Limbaugh apart. I think you have to get that 20 million-person audience share to realize how crazy it is for a man who's Vice President to set himself up in a position where he's controlling the government.
Stephanie Miller: Yeah. I, by the way, I listen to Rush so you don't have to, Sir. I-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you!
Stephanie Miller: Yes, that's my job. (laugh) So now, you know, we, we seem to just, you know, they ran, run the same play over and over again, of course, when anybody dissents about the war, is, 'Oh, you don't support the troops.' And meanwhile, I know you've been talking, as other people have, about the horrific, you know, way that we're treating our soldiers. You know, we have the, this story about, you know, there was an urgent demand for, you know, the up-armored, armored vehicles that they need that they didn't get. You know, most of our soldiers, of course, being killed by IEDs, being maimed. They're not getting the proper care when they get home. And, and, you know, I-I, How much, many more Walter Reeds can come out before they, they actually do the right thing?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think that the Democratic Congress now is putting a lot more money into the process, and Representative Chet Edwards in Texas has himself sponsored some additional legislation that will, that is passed and will put several billion additional dollars into the Veterans Administration. It's not enough by a long shot. This is a, not- This is decades of underfunding.
Stephanie Miller: Yep, yep. I-I, well, it's a, it's a, you know, it seems like in many cases this administration, they only do the right thing when, when they're shamed into it. You know?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Right.
Stephanie Miller: When there's publicity, and, and, and that, that is a shame. General Clark, I know you have to go, but before you go, was the real reason you called to declare for President?
(everybody laughs)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Oh, God. I think about it every single day.
Stephanie Miller: No, not as much as we do.
(everybody laughs)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Oh, it would be wonderful.
Chris:: Oh.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I don't have the conditions yet. I haven't said I won't run. And so-
Stephanie Miller: Does, does-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We'll just have to see.
Stephanie Miller: Does Gert know that you call and tease me like that?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But I will, listen, if it should change, I'll be sure and let you know.
Stephanie Miller: Alright.
Chris: Oh, yes.
Stephanie Miller: I'll be, I'll be first to know, not Keith Olbermann
(everybody laughs)
Stephanie Miller: Alright. Alright, General.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, it's all part of the family. Right?
Stephanie Miller: Alright. That's right.
Chris:: That's right.
Stephanie Miller: You give him my love. Alright, General Clark. Thanks so much for coming on with us.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you.
Stephanie Miller: Alright, Sir.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Bye-bye now.
Chris: Ooooh.
Stephanie Miller: See you next time. Bye-bye.
