General Wesley Clark on BBC's World News
September 13, 2007
transcript by Reg NYC
BBC anchor: Now in a few hours time, George Bush makes a prime time speech on his Iraq strategy. He's expected to highlight what he says is the success of defeating Al Qaeda in the Arab Sunni heartlands. Al Anbar Province in particular has been cited as a model of how an insurgent stronghold has been rid of its Al Qaeda supporters. Heavy then is the blow for the White House now that a key tribal leader and U.S. ally in Al Anbar has been killed in a bomb attack near his home. Sheikh Abdul Sattar Abu Risha had been described as central to the U.S military and their campaign against the insurgents.
In a moment, we'll talk to the U.S. General Wesley Clark about President Bush's options in Iraq. First, Steve Gibbs reports.
Steve Gibbs: Sheikh Risha had long received threats to his life ever since he publicly stated his willingness to form an alliance with the U.S.-backed Iraqi government. In recent days, he's understood to have scaled back his personal protection, confident that the security situation in Anbar was improving. Perhaps his fate was sealed ten days ago. These images were broadcast of him meeting President Bush during a gathering between moderate Sunni leaders, U.S. officials and the Iraqi government. Afterwards, he spoke to the BBC.
Sheik Abdul Sattar Abu Risha (through a translator): The meeting was in Al Anbar Province, in which we Al Anbar tribes under my leadership waged war on Al Qaeda with the help of the American Army. It was a surprise visit to our province. I went along with a number with a number of Sheikhs to to meet His Excellency, President Bush.
Steve Gibbs: The so-called Anbar Awakening has been held up recently by the U.S. government as the way ultimately to end the violence in Iraq. This was General Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq earlier this week:
General Petraeus: A year ago, the province was assessed as lost politically. Today, it is a model of what happens when local leaders and citizens decide to oppose Al Qaeda and reject its Taliban-like ideology.
Steve Gibbs: In a televised address to the nation this evening, President Bush was also expected to put forward the Anbar initiative as an endorsement of his Iraq policy, a possible justification for limited cuts in U.S. troop levels. The Sheik's murder has no doubt prompted some last minute redrafting. It's a cold reminder to all of the risk of pointing to anywhere already won in Iraq as a model for its future.
Steven Gibbs, BBC News.
BBC anchor: So, what impact will the Sheikh's killing have on President Bush's strategy in Iraq? Joining us now from Washington is the former U.S. General Wesley Clark, who was NATO's former Supreme Commander in Europe. He also ran for the Democratic Presidential nomination in the last U.S. election. General Clark, how embarrassing for President Bush is the Sheikh's killing just hours before he makes this keynote speech?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think it's both a tragedy and an emblematic event of the of the difficulties of trying to bring order in Iraq. And so, I think it does undercut the strategy to some extent, because it shows that it's not U.S. protection, it's not U.S. control that's adequate to assure their safety. But it also shows that, that it's a very, very dangerous area, and this situation is far from resolved. You know, the most amazing thing about all of this is that the surge wasn't predicated on success in Al Anbar Province. In fact, the opposite was the case. The surge was supposed to work Baghdad, and it hasn't made enough difference in Baghdad, I suppose, and the President wants to emphasize Al Anbar. But Al Anbar has been, it's basically three things: It's the people who are there deciding they're had enough of Al Qaeda. I think it's outside Sunni forces and money that's come in and said, 'We want you all to work with the Americans and get ready in case the Americans pull out.' And I think it's, at least to some extent, the American continued presence, which has given them some core to organize on.
BBC anchor: Alright.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But it's not the surge.
BBC anchor: Okay, you say it undercuts Bush's strategy in Al Anbar-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It has.
BBC anchor: -and the other Sunni strongholds, but you're suggesting that that strategy isn't a very good one. So, he shouldn't try to make alliances then with these Sunni Arab tribal leaders. That's a bad one, you think?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think it's a good strategy. I think that we should've made alliances with everybody. We should've worked with the tribes from the beginning. Instead, we basically went along with the sectarian divide. We went to Mullahs for authority when we should've worked more closely with the tribal Sheikhs and the tribal leaders whenever that was possible. But that's water over the dam right now.
BBC anchor: Alright.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: The difficulty right now is how to move ahead, and I think that some degree of local authority is going to be important. I do think it's a positive sign. It's just not necessarily a positive response to the surge.
BBC anchor: Alright. George Bush of course is going to be speaking after his top commander, David Petraeus, has been giving his testimony to Congress, but given how unpopular the Iraq war is becoming in America, wouldn't it be better if the General tried to distance himself a bit from Bush's war, or does he not really have the choice to do that?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I, I think it's his war. He's the man put in there. He's the striker on the team who's got to, to bring home the score. He's the quarterback as we'd say in American football, and, and it's his job to win. That's, that's what he's there for.
BBC anchor: But it's a military person, a military person being-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: That's the problem.
BBC anchor: -dragged into politics. I mean, does he have any choice, because the President after all is his Commander-in-Chief?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: He doesn't have that much choice, but the other thing that's wrong with it is it's not a military problem exclusively in Iraq. It's first and foremost a regional problem. It requires regional diplomacy, including a certain degree of dialog and engagement with Iran, which is behind much of the trouble inside Iraq. And until that's done by the White House with the authority of the President, it'll be very difficult for, for a General on the ground to effect the fundamental political dynamics that are at issue.
BBC anchor: So, it puts him in a difficult position then. You wouldn't fancy being in General-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Very difficult.
BBC anchor: You wouldn't fancy being in General Petraeus' shoes. But the talk of course is that it's going to take some time for the Iraqi forces to operate independently of coalition forces. Does that suggest to you then that all this talk about withdrawing troops is pretty premature?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think what it suggests is that we're looking at the wrong factors. The Iraqi troops are not going to be capable of operating independently, not simply because they lack technical skill, but because their loyalty is in doubt. They're fighting a civil war. If it weren't for the civil war, I'm sure you'd find the Iraqi were a pretty remarkable bunch of people. But when their loyalty's put to the test, many of them don't want to kill other Iraqis. They don't want to kill people from their own sect, and they fear for their own lives in this, in this uncertain domestic environment that they're trying, they and their families are living in. So, I, I think that we, to some extent, we're guilty of focusing at too low a level. People keep arguing about tactics and troops when they need to be talking about policies and strategies.
BBC anchor: But the trouble is, General Clark, as Senator Richard Lugar said, people's patience is running out. You can't ask for more patience when people talk about the burden on U.S. troops in the United States.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: People's patience is running out. the American people have put up with this war for four and a half years. It was supposed to be a cakewalk, as it was advertised. And after four and a half years, even the most resolute who believe that our country's a wonderful place and strong and determined and we never give in, they're asking themselves, 'What's the strategy?' And instead, too much of the debate is about how many troops. We need to be talking about what is the strategy in the region to bring success.
BBC anchor: General Wesley Clark, thank you very much indeed.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you.
