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General Wesley Clark on the Stephanie Miller Show
September 17, 2007
transcript by Reg NYC
Stephanie Miller: Oh, if only we had leaders these days. The Stephanie Miller Show, 33 minutes after the hour. Only someone who could tell us what, what, what, if it's a time to lead, if someone could tell us who could lead us, if someone like that-
(phone rings)
Stephanie Miller: What- Why, who is it Chris?
(more phone ringing)
Chris: It's the author of the new book A Time To Lead, General Wesley Clark.
Stephanie Miller: What are the chances that that would happen-
(trumpets)
Stephanie Miller: -right when I-
(more trumpets)
Stephanie Miller: -said the thing about-? Good morning General Clark.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Good morning, Stephanie.
Stephanie Miller: (laughs) How are you, Sir.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I'm great after a buildup like that.
Stephanie Miller: (laughs) I always-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Who wouldn't be?
Stephanie Miller: I always give you a big- I, I give you a big escalation every time you come on.
(everybody laughs)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I appreciate you.
Stephanie Miller: So, the big news is that you've endorsed Hillary Clinton for President.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Yes, I did. I think she's the right person at this time, and I think she's going to be a great President and a great Commander in Chief.
Stephanie Miller: Now have, is there a betting pool yet as to whether you will be Vice President or Secretary of Defense yet?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Look, I haven't-
(everybody laughs)
Stephanie Miller: -considered- I'm not considering anything like that. I haven't talked about anything like that.
Stephanie Miller: Oh, but I hope it happens.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But this was- Well, thank you very much. I'd love the opportunity to serve again, but this is really about trying to help America make the right choice in the 2008 election. And I just felt like I wasn't going to run, and I wanted to do my part and-
Stephanie Miller: Mm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -do what I could to help, and this is my way of helping.
Stephanie Miller: That was my dream that died this year, you not running, but I've, I've tried to, to soldier on. Now-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We can all have dreams.
(everybody laughs)
Stephanie Miller: Most of my dreams have died, General.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And the point is, my dream wasn't about me. It's about America, and that's why I wrote this book, and that's why I got into politics in the first place.
Stephanie Miller: Well, I mean, talk about what the, what the book is about, because you've, I think you saw the latest story over the weekend. It's just that this story goes on and on that Al Qaeda is getting stronger and stronger and stronger, largely due to our distraction in Iraq, and i-it just seems criminal almost that, that the country is in this position.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, you know, in order to succeed in the world, you have to know who you are as a country, and I wanted to write a book about who we are as Americans. And the only way I knew how to write it was to- I, I've lived all over America. I've lived from the East Coast to West Coast, the North, the South. I was born in the North, grew up in the segregated Arkansas, fought in Vietnam, and I've seen America from abroad. And I wanted to combine all that into a story about America. And so, I wrote about it through the lens of, of having lived it.
Stephanie Miller: Yeah. Well, I mean, you know and even General Petreaus, who you just wrote a, a piece on the, on his testimony in the Washington Post, I mean, you know, he, when John Warner asked him, "Is this making us safer?" I mean, he couldn't answer. Right? Because, I mean, that's a, that's a Bush talking point that, that's not correct.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, the point is he should, he should answer what's within his competence to answer. So, there wasn't an Al Qaeda in Iraq before we invaded Iraq. So, now, you know (chuckle), we may be doing a great job fighting it. We may have taken it down from 2000 or 3000 mean people to 1000, but they weren't there at all before we invaded Iraq.
Stephanie Miller: Right, well yeah. I mean, and you called, you know, you talked about, as a General yourself being in the position of having any credibility after four and a half years of a cakewalk gone wrong. I mean-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Right.
Stephanie Miller: -you know-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It's a tough problem.
Stephanie Miller: But, General, I mean, I think what, what the American people are getting so disgusted with is their intelligence being insulted. I mean, these troops were scheduled to come home, home anyway. This is not any kind of withdrawal.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: That's exactly right. The truth is we don't have enough men and women in uniform to keep the surge going for as long as maybe General Petreaus would have wanted it to go. And look, when you're a General, you have to ask for more forces. I mean, that's- the basic rule is, when you're a General, you can't lose, but there's only so many forces he can have. So, these forces are coming home. The administration's trying to make a, a virtue out of necessity here, because they've got to bring these troops home.
Stephanie Miller: What do you think of Senator Jim Webb's idea about giving the troops more rest between deployments, which would of course force a, a more major drawdown. Right?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I know that's, it's one effort for Congress to reassert it's authority. Look, by the Constitution, Congress is, is the authority to raise and maintain an army. And that's, that's the language of the Constitution, and that's its duties. So, Jim Webb and other Senators and Congressmen have every right to be concerned about the fact that our Armed Forces is being eroded by these repeated combat tours without enough time for the troops and their families to recover. That's the sustainment of the force.
Stephanie Miller: Mm hm. Well, I mean, you know, again, I think it's just this, this dog and pony show that, you know, when they use these phony statistics, where they're saying, 'Well, you know, we're not counting casualties if you're shot in the wrong part of the head or people blown up by car bombs,' and you know, to try to sell this idea that things are going better or the surge is actually improving things. I-I-I just think it insults our intelligence.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, it's their perspective and I, and I know Dave Petraeus. He wouldn't say anything he didn't believe was true. But on the other hand, I mean, he's in a position like, as I think I said yesterday on a TV show, I mean he's like the quarterback on a football team, and you put him in, you say, 'Look, you got to, you got to, you got to pull this game out, kid.' And he says, 'Yes, coach! Yes, coach! Yes, coach!' And he goes charging in there, and he, you know, it's three downs now. He comes back out and says, 'What do you think?' Do you think the, the, the young quarterback is going to come to the coach and say, 'Coach, I think that, you know, we ought to just forfeit the game right now, because they're too big, they're too strong, and we have to save our resources for the, for the team we're playing next week.' (laughs)
Stephanie Miller: Right. Well, I-I, you know, but I mean-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: He's not going to say that.
Stephanie Miller: -speaking of- but that's what I'm saying. The problem is, speaking of football, it's like they keep moving the goal posts. They're like saying-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Yeah!
Stephanie Miller: -we, they need to reach these benchmarks. Then their own reports say they haven't reached the benchmarks. And then they go, 'Oh, we didn't say- No, not those benchmarks. They're not important, now.'
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Yeah, but you understand which way they're moving them too. Right?
Stephanie Miller: Right.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It's like we're stuck at the 50-yard line, and they move the goal post from the end zone to the 10, to the 20, to the 30. (laughs)
Stephanie Miller: Well, you know what's going to have to happen? President Clinton and Vice President Clark are going to have to clean this up. That's what the plan is.
(everybody laughs)
Stephanie Miller: I think.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well I don't know about, about the latter, but I'm sure that, that she'll be on the ticket and she'll be our nominee, and I do believe she'll be the President.
Stephanie Miller: Well, I always try to trip you, trick you into slipping out some information to me-
(everybody laughs)
Stephanie Miller: -that you hadn't intended to.
(more laughter)
Chris: He's too smart for that.
Stephanie Miller: He's entirely too smart for me.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: You know, I have to listen, I have to listen to you just like your listeners do. I mean, listen closely to what Stephanie Miller says.
Stephanie Miller: (Still laughing) Yes, thank you. Use that for a promo.
Chris: I certainly will.
Stephanie Miller: General Clark orders you to listen to-
recorded voice: Stephanie Miller.
(continued laughter)
Stephanie Miller: General, what, what is happening with Iran. Is it me or is there a ramp up of rhetoric and all of the same things we heard before Iraq?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, there is a ramp up of rhetoric, because behind it there's a real serious problem. If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, it's the end of a 50-year effort by the United States and most of the major powers in the world to prevent the proliferation, the spread of nuclear weapons. If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, there'll be 10, 15 new nuclear powers virtually overnight. The genie'll really be out of the bottle at that point. And so, it's not just the threat posed by Iran against its neighbors in the region. It's also the significance of Iran getting a nuclear weapon and what it does to global safety and stability. So, the Iranians are trying to get one. We're looking at a, at a clock. It may be a year. It may be two years. May be three years. Nobody knows for sure. At some point, the time will come when you either take it out by force if you can, or you accept the fact that Iran is going to be a nuclear power and the genie's out of the bottle. And so, we don't know when that time is, but this administration must think it's getting close, because they're ramping up the rhetoric. All options are on the table. That's fine, but before we go to war, we must have done everything we can-
Stephanie Miller: Yeah. Well, General-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -to head it off.
Stephanie Miller: We know what fans they are of diplomacy clearly.
(both laugh)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, they have a hard time understanding diplomacy, because diplomacy is not- I've been through the region, Stephanie. I've talked to people. I've said, "Well, have you-" these are friends of the United States now, and I talked with Foreign Ministers and Prime Ministers and others, and they, and they, they talked to me candidly and honestly, I think-
Stephanie Miller: Mm hm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -as much as, you know, they ever do to anybody. And, and they, and they, and I've said, "So, aren't you being consulted with?" They said, "Occasionally, the United States comes out and tells us what we must do."
Stephanie Miller: Mm hm. Yeah, yeah.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: "But they don't listen-'
Stephanie Miller: Right.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: "-when we try to talk."
Stephanie Miller: Right.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: People in, people have different ways of communicating, you know.
Stephanie Miller: Mm hm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: They don't always, they're not all like Americans. I mean, we always say, 'Well, here's what you got to do - A, B, C.'
Stephanie Miller: Yeah.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well-
Stephanie Miller: They don't.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: People in that- They can't talk like that.
Stephanie Miller: That's not diplomacy to be dictated to. Exactly.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: They- and-
Stephanie Miller: Well, you know what? You're, you're going to fix that when you are Secretary of State in the Clinton administration. Don't you think?
(laughter all around)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, listen, diplomacy's a tricky business, and nobody can promise any guarantees. But before we start rattling the sabers too much against Iran, we ought to seriously sit down and talk to them.
Stephanie Miller: Absolutely. Well, just you know, help me out here. If we, if we had to play-
(Jeopardy music plays)
Stephanie Miller:-if we had a- if you were a betting man, would you say Vice President, Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense? Which would you-?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I don't know. I hear that ticker going off, and I don't know about that. I'm not playing those games.
(everybody laughs)
Stephanie Miller: You're just not giving up anything this morning.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I'm not playing any games.
Chris: He's too smart for you.
Stephanie Miller: I am, I am squeezing him.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Listen, this is too serious a business-
Chris: Yeah.
Stephanie Miller: I know.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And, you know, I mean, for me its about public service, and for me it's about looking at where the country is and try to keep the country from running off the rails.
Stephanie Miller: I know. I know.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think eventually we'll find our way through Iraq, but only if we talk to the Iranians. And if we start a war with Iran, yes of course we can dominate Iran militarily. We can bomb it. We can create a failed state in Iran, but what good does that do us.
Chris: Yeah, exactly.
Stephanie Miller: Yup, exactly, exactly. Uugh. And we, we always just appreciate your clear logic and, and thanks so much for coming on with us. And the book is A TIme To Lead. General Wesley Clark, thank you so much, General.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you, Stephanie.
Stephanie Miller: Alright. There he goes, General Wesley Clark.
(applause)
