General Wesley Clark on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart

September 19, 2007
Transcription by Melange

Jon Stewart: Welcome back. My guest tonight a former NATO Supreme Allied Commander - Europe as well as a former presidential candidate. His new book is A Time to Lead, for Duty, Honor and Country. Please welcome back to the show General Wesley Clark.

Thank you for joining us again.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you. Great to be with you.

Jon Stewart: The book is called A Time to Lead, for Duty, Honor and Country. I was always under the impression that uh, political figures wrote these books to run for president. You've written this and yet you're not in the race.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I know. I just wanted to write a book about America and it seemed like a good time since it was a presidential candidates' year that people might ask the question of, how come you write a book like if you're going to be a candidate and you're not a candidate? But it really is a book about America. I just wanted

Jon Stewart: Your picture's on the cover of the damn book! Not about you, look at that!

<applause>

Jon Stewart: Who's it about? That's not me.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I told them not to do it.

Jon Stewart: Now, someone who's an active participant, watching Petraeus' testimony, the general. Do you know the general?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Yeah. Oh yeah. He worked for me for a summer in 1984.

Jon Stewart: Intern? Was he an intern?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: He was a captain ...

<laughter>

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, not exactly, but I was a Colonel.

Jon Stewart: You were a Colonel, he was a captain.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: He was a captain so he was very respectful. <laughter>

Jon Stewart: So his job basically - two creams, one sugar.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, a little bit more than that, but he was an action officer and I called the action.

Jon Stewart: Alright, fair enough. So when you watch him ... here's a guy, brilliant guy – he's written a counterinsurgency book. Now he goes to Iraq and they set up a strategy that's almost counter to the strategy that he wrote about. He wrote about 20-25 counterinsurgents per thousand. We don't have that in place. Now he's got to come back and report and say, 'hey man, this is going good even though it's not what I would have done.' How ... what kind of position is that to be in?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It's a tough position. I was in a position when the Republicans dominated the Senate. I had a lot of those hostile questions and so forth and I looked up at the faces and ... but the thing is, think of him this way. He's the quarterback who was put in halfway through the fourth period. You're down 20 to nothing. The coach takes the sophomore quarterback and said, 'kid – this is your chance, okay? You're going in there, you're going to lead this team. I want you to pass, pass, pass.' Okay, he comes in and it's three you know, three downs and he's out again. Now, do you think the quarterback's going to come back to the coach and say, 'Coach, I've passed, but you know, the other team's big, their backs are too fast and uh, it's raining too hard and the ball's too slippery and coach, I recommend we just come off the field now and let's save our energy for next week and maybe we'll ... ' He's not going to say that.

Jon Stewart: I don't expect that, but don't you expect him to come in and go, 'but I've actually written a book on running.' <laughter> 'So, instead of pass, pass, pass, why don't we do the plan that I wrote? I wrote this plan.' What doesn't make sense is 'the surge is working.' It's almost like there's a giant wound and he goes 'you know what we should do, let's do a surge, let's stitch up just this part and see what happens.' And then that staunches the blood and the blood keeps flowing and he's like 'that's working great, let's remove the stitches.' Why not just ... if a surge is what's necessary, why not surge surge?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: There's not enough troops and in any event, it's too late to do the strategy that he wanted to do because we've already lost the hearts and the minds of the Iraqis by the conduct for the first three years and the most ironic thing of all is the action that the President is taking most credit for which is what was happening in al Anbar province had nothing to do with the surge. It had to do instead with the Sunni Arabs deciding that because the Americans were either failing or leaving, they better get their act together and they better form a cohesive community to be able to defend against what's coming after the Americans leave or lose, which is the Iranian-backed Shia militias.

Jon Stewart: You don't think if we put in 400,000 troops that we'd have a chance to give their government ... so you're not ... you don't feel like all or nothing.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I don't think 400,000 troops at this point would do the job.

Jon Stewart: Do we even have that?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: No, not to put in there. Think of it this way. You're ... you've got these troops, but they don't speak the language, they're in body armor, they've got dark goggles on that are ballistic goggles and laser-protective goggles and they're afraid because they get shot at every time they move so they're very jumpy. So, this is not what it takes to win the <crosstalk> kind of battles that General Petraeus is talking about.

Jon Stewart: I understand that soldiers would never turn down the mission. I understand the mentality of the Army is ... but they have already succeeded at what the Army does – they took the country.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Absolutely.

Jon Stewart: They did what they do.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Take your victory and walk off the field, right?

Jon Stewart: Not walk off the field and just leave you know, for the chaos and the whole thing, but there's got to be a controlled burn – it's already happening. They keep saying, there'll be chaos. Well, the four years hasn't exactly been the Rose Parade.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Absolutely. No, the chaos is already happening. And, Jon, this is the key point that wasn't brought out in the hearings, but the situation in Iraq is not going to be like this a year from now. Ethnic cleansing is underway. The militia are sorting out who's in charge. Iran's on all sides of the militia – they're aiding everybody and assisting people all over the country. But, that power struggle's going on under the veneer of the American presence. Those guys in the humvees that drive back and forth on the roads that are you know, carefully on guard and looking out for the improved explosive devices, they don't see everything that's going on underneath them. We had provincial governors assassinated in the south, we've got people running Basra now that the British have left.

Jon Stewart: And amidst this violence, their rules of engagement sound very difficult. You know, it's that idea like okay, you know that this guy's setting up IED's but you got to knock on his door, you have to have a permission slip for him to come with you, you know, all of them have to have a boxed lunch if you're going to question them. <laughter> The Army is in an unbelievably difficult position.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It's a tough position but if you didn't have those rules of engagement, like we had in some units at the outset, where you just sort of knocked on doors and roughed people up. Well, look, I mean, in America, think of how it would be ... I'm from Arkansas, but think of how it would be anywhere in those states when an invading force comes in. They're wearing space helmets.

Jon Stewart: You're talking Red Dawn, aren't you? Are you talking Red Dawn?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, sort of like that, but I mean except they're space invaders, okay they've got laser weapons and stuff and they bust down your doors and they rough up your women and they throw you on the ground and ...

Jon Stewart: What? Really.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: You know, in America you know what we do to people like that? We shoot them.

Jon Stewart: I know.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: So, we've got a really tough mission.

Jon Stewart: But we're America.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I know. That's it, isn't it? And I'm proud of America, I'm proud of this country and that's why I wrote that book. If we behave ourselves and act the right way, we'll be the leaders of our world for a long time.

Jon Stewart: You're talking about moral high standing, my friend. It's always nice to hear a conversation about that.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It's great to be with you, Jon.

Jon Stewart: A Time to Lead is on the bookshelves now. General Wesley Clark.