General Wesley Clark on MSNBC's Morning Joe

September 21, 2007
transcript by Reg NYC

Willie Geist: For those who want to turn now to that MoveOn.org ad we've been talking about. President Bush of course engaging that organization for the "General Petreaus or General Betray Us" ad. He had this to say about it during a press conference yesterday.

President George W. Bush (on tape): I-I thought the ad was disgusting, and I felt like the ad was an attack, not only on General Petreaus, but on the U.S. military. And I's disappointed that not more leaders in the Democrat Party spoke out strongly against that kind of ad. And that leads me to come to this conclusion, that most Democrats are afraid of irritating a left-wing group like MoveOn.org, or more afraid of irritating them than they are of irritating the United States military.

Willie Geist: We're joined now by General Wesley Clark. He's of course an MSNBC analyst and the Author of the book A Time To Lead: For Duty, Honor And Country. Good morning General Clark.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Good morning. How are you doing?

Willie Geist: Well, I'm doing well. I'm doing well. The President says this was not just an attack on General Petreaus but an attack on the military at large. Did you take the ad that way, Sir?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I didn't like the play on General Petreaus' name, but I will tell you this that it's certainly within the purview of any organization to question U.S. policy. And so, I felt the tactics were wrong, but I felt their intent was perfectly fine. They should be asking questions about the policy. (clears throat) I very much regret the fact that all of this has distracted America and enabled some people to escape the consequences of a policy that's just not very effective. The surge is not working, and it was designed so that military improvements and military security could lead to political compromise. There'd been no political compromise. Of course, if you put in troops, you're going to get some improved security for a while at least, but we don't know what's going on underneath the veneer of security, and we certainly have seen no evidence of any political compromise coming out of it. So, I think President Bush's policy's wrong. I think the surge is failing. I think MoveOn's correct to point that out. I think they were incorrect to make the pot on General Petreaus' name. General Petreaus is, he's in the chain of command. He's doing the best he can to support his President, his Commander In Chief, and that's the way it should be. That's what we expect of the men and women in uniform. We expect loyalty up the chain of command. So, I think the, the, the issue is to attack the substance of the policy, which has shown that it's not effective rather than going after the man.

Willie Geist: Yesterday, General Clark, the Senate overwhelmingly passed a measure condemning that MoveOn ad. Senator Clinton voted against condemning the ad. You've come out and endorsed Sen- Senator Clinton. Can you speak to why she wouldn't, she wouldn't condemn the ad?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I-I think the, the whole, this whole debate is nothing but a distraction. We should be focusing on what is wrong with the policy. And the Republican Party has, and President Bush, have seized the ad as a way of escaping the responsibility for the consequences of a failing policy. That's the issue. So, let's get back on the issue. Forget about the ad. Let's talk about the policy.

Willie Geist: Alright, General Clark, let's talk about the policy. President Bush himself said just a few days ago - we talked about this earlier - that said, "The goal now, the measure of success is avoiding and stopping chaos," which seems like we've really lowered the bar on success. You- I thought it was about spreading democracy. So, how have our expectations changed, and what is success in your eyes?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Success in, in the minimum- Well, first of all, of course we've changed the goal posts, because the policy as President Bush originally conceived it has failed. He's trying to escape the imminence of strategic failure of the defining policy of his administration. So yes, he's going to do everything he can to change the definition of success. I think what's realistic to, to expect is that we might get out of there with Iraq remaining together as a, as a, as a state within the current boundaries, and we might see an end to the violence. But there's ethnic cleansing going on. There are people being forced out of their homes. There's millions of refugees that have been spread out across the Middle East and increasingly across the world. There's people that're still dying in sectarian strife. And, and our military's doing the best it can, but it doesn't speak the language. It's not part of the political culture there. It's a veneer over a, a grab for influence by Iran in the region and a counter-thrust by the Sunni powers in the region. President Bush is taking credit for what's happening in Anbar Province. He's due no credit for that. That comes from the Sunni powers in the region who are warning the tribal Sheikhs that they better get their act together, because the Shia backed by Iran are on the way.

Mika Brzezinski: General, if I could just ask you, given the fa- just given the mention here that you are politically on the other side of this, I still would like to ask you about the implication of an ongoing occupation in Iraq - to use the words of some experts. Could this strategy be playing into Al Qaeda's hands, doing exactly what they want, especially given the fact that Bin Laden and his number two according to many reports, aren't even there, and that the Al Qaeda that really poses the greatest threat to the United States, the Al Qaeda that is reconstituting right now and planning and preparing the next attack is not in Iraq?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Mika, you're calling it exactly right in my view. I think the occupation of Iraq, the invasion I think was a mistake. It gave a huge cause for the organization and, and, and recruiting of a new generation of Al Qaeda terrorists and, and franchise affiliates all around the world. It's put the United States in the position of an occupying power in the region. We were never in that position before. And just as you say, the Al Qaeda base in the region, border region between Afghanistan and Pakistan is reconstituting itself, and that's where our emphasis should be and it isn't.

Willie Geist: Alright. General Wesley Clark, the author of the book A TIme To Lead: For Duty, Honor And Country, we appreciate your time this morning.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you very much. It's good to be with you.