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General Wesley Clark on the Lionel Show on Air America Radio
April 8, 2008
transcript by Reg NYC
Lionel: General Wesley Clark joins us right now. General Clark, at ease, Sir.
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: Hey, great to be with you, Lionel. Thank you-
Lionel: General Clark, it is a pleasure again-
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: (inaudible) Thanks, thanks for supporting our veterans and bringing up this point. This is, this is a critical point right now. Everybody's talking about how long the forces are going to stay and getting them home. That's all foreign policy. It's good, but I'm worried about the people in the military. And, and our young people when they come home and they get out, they need a chance to get reintegrated into American life. We know how to do it. It's to give them an opportunity to go to college, but the current GI Bill doesn't do the job. It's unbelievable.
Lionel: Why? What does it, what does it provide for?
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: It doesn't pay enough.
Lionel: What does the current GI Bill do?
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: It doesn't pay enough for soldiers to go to colleges. And so, y-you need something that provides the tuition, the books and a, and a living stipend so they can afford to be full-time students. That's what we did for our military after World War II. We didn't tell them, 'Now, here's half the tuition. Here's enough money to buy some of the books you need. And I hope you'll be able to get a job waiting tables in the cafeteria.'
Lionel: (sigh)
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: 'Thanks very much for your service to our country.' We didn't say that to our men and women who served in World War II, and the result was we created the Greatest Generation, not just the people who fought but the people who built America. We've got hundreds of thousands of young people who are looking for the opportunities to go to college, but when they look at the current GI Bill, one version of this requires that they actually contribute money up front. If they don't then use it, they've lost some of their pay. None of the versions give them the comparable resources that our World War II-era GI's had. It's a matter of money.
Lionel: Now, General Clark, you, in addition to WesPAC and also VoteVets.org , we got to be very careful with these names, because as you know there are different organizations that sound good, but they were basically they're fronts like Freedom's Watch - sounds good! But that's another organization. This is VoteVets.org and WesPAC. Can you explain to me what John McCain's beef is? Being fair, as I know you are, Sir, what is his, what are his reasons for not supporting this along with 51 other Senators including nine Republicans like John Warner and others.
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: I think the most important reason that John McCain- first of all, John McCain simply won't address it, but he's indicated, 'Well, it might cost too much. The Pentagon doesn't support it.' You know why the Pentagon doesn't support it? Because the Pentagon doesn't want to put the money into our men and women who've served. They even have suggested (chuckles) that if you give them generous benefits, they might get out of the service.
Lionel: What!?!
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: They- In other words, like you might want to trap them in there by telling them, 'Okay, you guys enlisted, but now there's no way home. So, you may as well just stay for your fifth and sixth tour.' That's just totally contrary to principles of good leadership and what we stand for as Americans. So, I think we need to really hammer John McCain. I'm asking people to come to my website, which is securingamerica.com , www.securingamerica.com . Come on this website. Sign the petition. Let's get it out and let's hammer John McCain. Because he's the guy who is, he's, he's running solely on his, on his position as having been a veteran. If he weren't a veteran, he wouldn't have any of this stuff.
Lionel: You know, General Clark-
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: I don't know why he can't take care of the young people that are with us today.
Lionel: General Clark, I, I think it is, it is something to be proud of to, to serve this country, certainly in your case, and when you make it a point, I thought, stupid me, that when you were in harms way, when you served the country, when you wore the uniform, you would be more sentient to, to what was going on, you would have an insight. We've done some and others have done some research, Think Progress. In May of 2006, John McCain voted against an amendment providing for 20 billion dollars to the VA's medical facilities. Then he voted against 430 million dollars to the VA for outpatient care and treatment for veterans. Only 13 other Senators did. This was April of '06. He voted against increasing VA funding by one and a half billion dollars by closing corporate loopholes in March of 2006. He voted against increasing VA funding by 1.8 billion by ending, quote, "abusive tax loopholes" in March of 2004. And he voted against 650 million dollar increase in veterans medical care funding in August of 2001. We're spending three billion dollars a week in Iraq. He says we may be there for 100 years or more either fighting or standing guard. None of this makes any sense to me, Sir, none of this. (laughs) I don't understand it. Maybe I'm just stupid, but how could he on, on one hand say, 'support the troops,' 'support the surge,' 'support this,' and then when it comes to not, not not charity, but basically giving people an incentive to stay. And we need more brave soldiers in to, to, to take up the slack.
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: You know this- there's a lot of-
Lionel: I don't get it.
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: There's a lot of hypocrisy in politics, and this is an example of, of hypocrisy at its worst. This is a man who has claimed his mantle of leadership based on his wartime record and his family's service in the military, and yet he doesn't have any compassion or understanding for the young people serving today. I think he's following a party hack line. I think he's just toadying up to the Bush administration. He's not living up to his sort of independent, maverick label that he likes to claim for himself.
Lionel: Well, that's what the, the-
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: And he's proved he's not a maverick.
Lionel: Well, the-
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: He's, he's lining up the Republicans, and I think for a man like John McCain, I think it's the kind of worst form of hypocrisy. Our men and women are risking their lives over there. Their families are being disrupted. We should do everything we can possibly do for them.
Lionel: General-
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: I've been out on college campuses-
Lionel: Right.
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: -trying to encourage people to join the military. You know, a lot of Democrats come to me and they say, 'Well, you know, I'm worried about the volunteer force.' I said, "Well, join up!"
Lionel: (laughs)
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: You know, if you're worried about who's serving in it, you serve. Give us your first born. There's nothing wrong with this. And people say, 'Well, I don't want to serve in Bush's war.' Listen, this is our nation's armed forces. President George Bush is going to be out of office in a few months. We've got a chance to put our own President in there, and this country needs a strong military. But the key is the quality of the men and women who serve, and that means the country has to fulfill its obligations to them. We're not doing that. The kind of hypocritical leadership John McCain has provided won't do it. I'm asking your listeners, Lionel, please come onto securingamerica.com , sign this petition, and let's hammer John McCain. We've got 51 votes right now in the United States Senate to change this GI plan so we can really take care-
Lionel: General-
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: -of the men and women coming back.
Lionel: General Clark, what does the President say? What is his basis or bases for being against this provision.
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: Well, basically it's money. They don't want to put the money out.
Lionel: They don't mind 3 billion a week in a war.
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: (inaudible) They don't mind 3 billion a week. They don't mind wearing the American flag. They certainly don't mind lining up troops behind them and giving political speeches and 'Rah, Rah' and trying to present themselves as the key patriotic leaders, but when it comes to taking care of the men and women who serve, they don't want to do it.
Lionel: General Clark, may I ask you-
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: (inaudible) Republican support on this. We need more Republican support and that starts with John McCain. And, you know, I'm calling out John McCain right now on his hypocrisy, and I need, I need-
Lionel: Uh oh.
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: -our listeners to help us.
Lionel: Sounds like a showdown here. General Clark, of the two Democratic candidates, who do you think is better? Who are you supporting?
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: Well, I've been, I've known Hillary Clinton for 24 years. I went to see her in September. I said, "Hillary, I want you to be President."
Lionel: Okay.
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: And she's got, she's got smarts. She's got experience. And let me just say one other thing for- You know, I was overseas the week everything happened about Tusla, but I was intimately connected connected with that policy and what was going on in the Balkans during that time. And the truth is that the Secret Service and the military were worried about sniper fire when she landed in Tusla. She did land in a dangerous area. She had gunship cover overhead. The soldiers were wearing flack jackets. The, the airport was surrounded by armored vehicles. It was a situation of danger, and I think Hillary Clinton does have experience that this country needs. And so, I do support her to be the next President.
Lionel: General Clark, today General Petraeus is speaking before Congress. If you were asking the questions, knowing what you do - and by the way nobody's credentials comes more impeccably and impeccable than yours does, Sir - what would you ask General Petraeus, soldier to soldier, General to General? Because he's in a unique position, let's face it. He is, he, he is a soldier. He has his Commander in Chief. The President is really his boss. But what would you want to know?
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: Well, I'd say, I'd say, I'd say, 'Dave, you've done a, you've done a, a good job with the troops. You've given them a sense of purpose. You've given them some belief that they're making a difference over there. The, the, some of the violence has fallen away. The surge is partially responsible, not totally responsible for that. The, the, the Saudis, the Jordanians and the Iranians are all part of that equation as well,' I said, but I'd say, 'Dave, how are we going to get the political progress? How do we connect the military to the political progress?' Because the whole premise of the surge was if you can reduce the violence, these politicians can, can agree. Personally, I always thought that was backwards. I thought the violence was an expression of political disagreement, not a cause of it. In other words, it wasn't that people were, 'Gee, it's so violent, there's so many bullets flying around I can't meet my neighbor to talk to him.'
Lionel: Yeah, they would vote-
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: That wasn't exactly what it was about. It was, it was the opposite. It's, 'My neighbors don't like each other and that's why they're shooting at each other.' And so, when you say, 'I'm not going to let you shoot,' it doesn't necessarily address the underlying causes. But I like Dave Petraeus. He's been there on the ground who knows these situations a-and, and is a very smart guy. He, he's a General. He's doing his duty. His duty's to the President and to the men and women who serve under him. He's loyal to the chain of command. That's what you expect of any General. 'But Dave, how do we connect the military to work that's being done to get the political progress that we need.' And honestly, that's more of a question for Ryan Crocker. He's the President's man over there who's supposed to do this. And it's, honestly, it's not working. Is it a matter of patience? Or is it just a matter of patience so President Bush can safely get out of office? Is there really any prospect of doing this, and if so, how?
Lionel: General Clark-
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: You know I hear a lot, I hear a lot of talk about making the troops, you know, having these Iraqi security forces built and so forth, but come on now, we're building on a foundation of sand. When the, when the political society is totally split, it would be like trying to improve the United States Army on the- in 1860, on the eve of the Civil War. You know what happened. Robert E. Lee left his Cavalry regiment, decided to fight for the, for the Rebels in the South. Ulysses S. Grant was brought back in and he was, he wasn't even in the military in 1860. And so, all these things happened-
Lionel: And John McCain was there.
(cymbal shot)
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: (laughs) And John McCain, well, John McCain was a young man at that time.
Lionel: Bless his heart.
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: (laughs)
Lionel: General Wesley Clark, again, Sir, I want to thank you for your service to the country and also understand-
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: Thank you.
Lionel: -that you are in association with VoteVets.org . And again your website please which we have linked to ours, again Sir?
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: Thank you. www.securingamerica.com
Lionel: On behalf of a grateful nation, I mean this Sir, thank you for your service and thank you for being with us.
GENERAL WELSEY CLARK: Thank you very much, Lionel. Great to be with you.
Lionel: More coming up on The Lionel Show. What a man, loquacious indeed. Couldn't get a word in edgewise, but after all he's a General and I'm not.
