General Wesley Clark on Morning Joe
June 13. 2008
Transcript by Reg NYC
Mika Brzezinski: Welcome back to Morning Joe. Live pictures of the White House this morning with the sun coming up, very pretty shot, and here with us now in the studio MSNBC analyst retired General Wesley Clark. Thanks for coming in.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Oh, it's great to be with you.
Mika Brzezinski: You generated a lot of conversation on the show yesterday, and it pertains to this comment that you said about John McCain. I'm going to read it.
"The truth is in National Security terms, he's largely untested and untried."
John McCain, this is what you're talking about.
"He's never been responsible for policy formulation. He's never had leadership in a crisis or in anything larger than his own element on an aircraft carrier or in managing his own Congressional staff. It's not clear that this is going to be the strong suit that he thinks it is. McCain's weakness is that he's always been for the use of force, force and more force. In my experience, the only time to use force is as a last resort. When he talks about throwing Russia out of the G8 and makes ditties about bombing Iran, he betrays a disrespect for the office of the Presidency."
I, I hear what you're saying, but at the same time I think, don't you think it's kind of a dangerous thing to say about a, someone who was a war hero, POW for several years? This is John McCain we're talking about.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I, I think it's a fair evaluation, because I think what you learn coming up through the ranks in the military - and I stayed with the military from, I started at the service academy and I served in Vietnam. I didn't do what John McCain did. I did come home on a stretcher. But as I went through the ranks and I was a Major and a Lieutenant Colonel and a Colonel, and at every stage, I learned something more and something different. And the Army always told us, they said, 'You know, remember the thing that got you promoted to where you are is not the skill, the, the intuition or whatever that's going to get you promoted to the next rank. You had to learn at each step along the way. And later I was the Supreme Allied Commander. I helped hold an alliance together. I helped set the strategy that won a war without any American casualties. I watched people under that kind of pressure, and I realized that, you know, John McCain was a Senator - he supported my actions, but his support was rhetorical.
Mika Brzezinski: Mm hm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: He wasn't responsible. He's not been responsible. He hasn't felt the brunt of the responsibility. He hasn't felt the anguish of uncertainty.
Mika Brzezinski: But doesn't he have credibility?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And that makes a big difference.
Mika Brzezinski: Oh, but doesn't he have credibility when it comes to the insight of the horrors of war, of the issue of torture, of decisions that have to be made when we lead this country into the future?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I'd like to think he has a lot of credibility when it comes to personal commitment, to willingness to sacrifice-
Mika Brzezinski: Mm hm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -and to his own personal courage as a, as an individual who suffered horribly as a prisoner of war.
Mika Brzezinski: Mm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But on the other hand, he's turned, he's changed his position on torture. At one point he said he was against it. Now, he's in favor of it. He, he's even come out against the Supreme Court decision that was made yesterday on the prisoners at Guantanamo. So-
Mika Brzezinski: Mm hm.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -you know, what does John McCain really believe? Who is he? Is he, is he this sort of 'Straight Talk Express' maverick that people thought he was in the late '90's or is he just a guy who wants to be President and he'll say what's necessary-
Mike Barnicle But-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -to get the job.
Mike Barnicle General, you know, I, I think we all understand, you know, the rhetoric of campaigns and things that people say in the course of a political campaign. But your, yesterday, Huffington Post stuff, the, what you, what Mika just reiterated, "The truth is that in national security terms, he's largely untested and untried."
Mika Brzezinski: Mm.
Mike Barnicle "He's never been responsible for policy formulation."
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Okay, stop.
Mike Barnicle "He's never had-"
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Stop.
Mike Barnicle I will, I will, I, you-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Has he been responsible for policy formulation?
Mike Barnicle You could say that same thing about Barack Obama, the exact same thing.
Mika Brzezinski: Yeah.
Mike Barnicle: The exact same thing.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Barack Obama's not running on the basis of his national security experience. He's running on the basis of good judgement.
Mike Barnicle But it's going to be an issue. It's going to be an issue.
Mika Brzezinski: He's running on the issue of the Iraq war.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: That's why it's important to set this, the record straight. John McCain served. He served honorably and well, and we all admire what he did as a prisoner of war. John McCain in national security leadership terms for the office of the Presidency, is largely untested and untried.
Mike Barnicle As is Barack Obama.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: He has not been there.
Mike Barnicle As is Barack Obama.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Barack Obama doesn't claim that. Barack Obama has other strengths he brings.
Mike Barnicle What's, what's the biggest difference between John McCain's position on our role in Iraq right now and going forward over the next two years and Barack Obama's?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, Barack Obama has a strategy for bringing us out of there-
Mike Barnicle How quickly?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -and leaving a success.
Mika Brzezinski: 16 months.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: John McCain has a strategy for keeping us in there (chuckles) as long as he can.
Harold Ford: If you, whoever's elected-
Mika Brzezinski: Harold, quickly.
Harold Ford: Whoever's elected President, assuming it's Senator Obama, General Clark, what would be the first piece of advice you would give the next President, the first 90 days, of how to confront and approach the situation in Iraq?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, get a strategy for the region, but t- you got to build a strategy. A strategy's not like some guy writing on a blackboard 'E=MC2'. You got to talk to people. You got to talk to the military. You got to talk to the diplomats. You got to talk to your allies. You need to consult with the United Nations and the leaders in the region. What is that strategy? How do we- how do we put together the right strategy?
Harold Ford: Would you reduce our troop levels from a-? We just had Richard Engel on who said re- reducing the troop level could create some challenges if you do it over the next 12 months. You're a Four-Star General.
Mika Brzezinski: Real quick.
Harold Ford: How would you recommend in terms of the, the troops levels in Iraq, what, what number?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think it's a very important play to ensure that the Iraqis understand we're coming out. So, I would start right away with a, with a, withdrawal.
Mika Brzezinski: Uh huh.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But I wouldn't publish a timeline, and I would leave that flexible. And that's part of the, of the, the, the dialog and the exchange. Maybe you have to accelerate it. Maybe you decelerate it. Maybe you tell the Iranians, 'You know, you guys need to let loose of Iraq. If we see you letting loose, then we'll come out sooner. If you-'
Mika Brzezinski: General-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: '-stay in there-'
Mika Brzezinski: Wesley Clark-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: '-we'll be there.'
Mika Brzezinski: -sounding like a Vice President. Is that possible?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: You know, I think it's entirely presumptuous. I'm, I'm in the business community. Harold and I-
Mika Brzezinski: Oookay.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -were just talking about our investment banking-
Mika Brzezinski: Just checking.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -efforts here.
Harold Ford: I got to tell you-
Mika Brzezinski: Just checking.
Harold Ford: -if I had four stars, I'd wear them on my, on my (inaudible)
Mika Brzezinski: (laughs) Yes, you would.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, your wearing an American flag and it looks really good there.
Harold Ford: Thank you, Sir.
Mika Brzezinski: General Wesley Clark, thank you very much.
