General Wesley Clark on MSNBC
March 6, 2009
Transcription by RegNYC
Joe Scarborough: Let's go from domestic policy to foreign policy. I want to talk with former NATO Supreme Allied Commander retired General Wesley Clark. He and his group Growth Energy are calling on the EPA to raise the cap on ethanol in gasoline, a move he says would actually create new jobs. Before we go there, General, you know a heck of a lot about money, about markets. Could you talk about- Michael Kinsley worried last week in a column that even if the stimulus plan works, all this spending could increase inflation perhaps to 10, 20 percent. Are you concerned about when the economy turns around, hopefully it turns around, that we have a lot of inflationary pressures that could really be the next big crisis in this country?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Yes, I've had those thoughts. I have had those concerns, Joe. But unfortunately we're not yet quite on the brink of turning around, and as these numbers come out we seem to be in a downward spiral. So, we very badly need this stimulus package to take hold. And then I think there will be time and I, and I know, I've talked to the people who are dealing with many of these issues. They're very much aware of a subsequent potential inflationary threat, but right now the threat is not inflation. We've got to get America back to work. And if I can just use that, that's why the group I'm working with the ethanol producers in the United States are so strongly in favor of lifting the cap on ethanol in gasoline. Right now it's set at 10 percent. It should be moved to 15 percent. The scientific studies are in. It'll create 135,000 jobs. It doesn't need any special legislation or subsidy moneys beyond anything that's out there right now. It's just a matter of regulatory capping of the, of the amount of ethanol in gasoline, and we could raise it-
Joe Scarborough: General, why-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -from 10 to 15 percent.
Joe Scarborough: -why do we hear s- why do we hear so much criticism of ethanol. It's an alternative fuel source, but it seems that a lot of environmentalists don't like ethanol. A lot of people on the other side, pure capitalists don't like ethanol. They say it's just basically a big payoff to Iowa voters every four years.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, ethanol is something we (chuckles) created in America. We're, we're moving from about 10 billion gallons of annual production a year up to what's mandated in the legislation. By 2022, we're supposed to be producing 36 billion gallons a year of ethanol, but by administrative fiat we are capped right now at where we are. We need to produce this. This- every gallon of ethanol we produce is a gallon of imported gasoline we don't need. It's m-money that is kept here at home. It's our technology. And I've been out and looked at these ethanol plants and talked to people in the Midwest, and we as Americans, we ought to be very, very proud of what they've created.
Joe Scarborough: Yeah. Lets-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: This is a tremendous success story.
Joe Scarborough: Let's bring in Pat Buchanan who was for ethanol-
Pat Buchanan: Yeah.
Joe Scarborough: -when he ran for President in Iowa in '92 and '96. I know, Pat-
Pat Buchanan: What?
Joe Scarborough: -are you against it now?
Pat Buchanan: No, I visited a number of ethanol plants and was enthusiastic about it in Iowa, Joe. But General, let me (laughs) ask you this. I've tal- heard from a lot of folks since then who say if you take the amount of fuel you need on those tractors and on the farms and to produce it, it takes more than a gallon of fuel to produce a gallon of ethanol, and therefore it is not a good investment for this country. I'm sure you've seen those things. Are they all just false? Is that a canard or what?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: No, those are a lot of old studies that were done on, on some information and some assumption dating from the early days of ethanol back in, back in the '70's and '80's. In fact, the modern data says that it's about 1.6 times more energy out of a gallon of ethanol than all the energy everywhere from planting the corn to, to producing the ethanol that goes into the gallon. So, it's a very efficient fuel. This is more efficient than a gallon of gasoline for example in terms of the overall energy balance. And it's a 50 percent or more savings in greenhouse gasses. So, you get the energy independence argument, the jobs argument, the environmental argument. We should do this.
Joe Scarborough: Alright. Thank you so much, General.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you.
Joe Scarborough: Greatly appreciate it. It's always good to see you...
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you, Joe.
