November 17, 2005
Transcription by Reg NYC
We encourage you to listen to the clip.
Sean Hannity: Joining us now is the host of "Morning in America," Fox News contributor Bill Bennett, and also former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, also a Fox News Contributor General Wesley Clark is with us. You know General, I gotta tell you something, I have had it with members of your party undermining our troops, undermining a Commander-in-Chief while we are at war, calling the Commander-in-Chief a liar, saying that he hyped, saying that he misled. They have done all of this without any evidence or proof. I wa-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think there's a lot of proof out there, Sean.
Sean Hannity: Hang on a second. No there's n- You're calling the-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And I'll be happy to talk about all of that in the show.
Sean Hannity: You wanna call the- You wanna call- Wait a minute. You wanna call the President a liar?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I want to stop all the name-calling-
Sean Hannity: You want to call him a liar?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -by you and everybody else, Sean. I think it's time to get down to the facts on this. I think there's been quite enough name-calling done.
Sean Hannity: Well, do you (sic) calling the President a liar?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I told you. Let's get to the facts. Let's stop the labeling.
Sean Hannity: Okay.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Stop the adjectives. Stop the guilt by association, and go to the facts.
Sean Hannity: Your- Members-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Here are the facts: Saddam Hussein was not part of what happened to this country on 9/11. Fact #2: Saddam Hussein did not have nuclear weapons, and Dick Cheney and the administration made a strong case that there was a connection between Saddam Hussein and 9/11, and that Saddam was about to get a nuclear weapon. Now, that's the hype. That was the linkage.
Sean Hannity: And so did- and so did John Kerry, and so did Hillary Clinton, and so did Bill Clinton.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I don't think any of those people made that case.
Sean Hannity: And- Wait a sec- Let me fini- Let me finish a sentence General, please. You also said you probably would have voted for the resolution yourself.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Not that resolution.
Sean Hannity: But I am gonna tell you. I want you to join me-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Just a minute. No, No. Let's get it out.
Sean Hannity: You said right here. I have the quote. "On balance, I would have voted for it."
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I said you- No, that's not the right quote
Sean Hannity: Boston Globe, 9/19/2003.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: "It" is the resolution that Carl Levin submitted. That's a resolution that said that he could go to the United Nations and come back to the Congress and get permission.
Sean Hannity: That's not what you're quoted in the paper saying.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: In fact- Well there's a lot of quotes in the paper. Let me just tell you what I testified. I said, "Don't give George Bush a blank check." We knew George Bush was going to want to go to war, regardless of what the UN did.
Sean Hannity: I want to ask you a question.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: So, I want to get past the name-calling,
Sean Hannity: Yeah.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: and let's get to the evidence in front of the American people.
Sean Hannity: The problem- Sir, and I'm going to be, look, as respectful as I can. The name-calling and the attacks against the President and Commander-in-Chief, the call of him being called a liar is coming from members of your party, but I want you to join me tonight.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I don't think anybody- I didn't hear anybody call him a liar.
Sean Hannity: I want you- General, let me finish, please. I want you to join me tonight. I want the Republicans to go into Washington tomorrow, and I want you to call on the Democrats and Republicans. Let's have an up or down vote right now. Do the Republicans and Democrats, put them on record, do they agree with John Murtha or not? Do the want a withdrawal or not? With all we know now, let's put these Senators and Congressmen on notice tonight, and let's get them on the record. Will you join me in calling in calling for that?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Sean you've done a great job as a broadcaster, but I'll tell you something: I think the American people are tired of partisanship. What they want is some leadership and some statesmanship.
Sean Hannity: Will you join me tonight? I want a vote.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: They don't want partisanship. They want the facts, and here are the facts: This country went to a war it didn't have to fight, and now it's there.
Sean Hannity: Tell that to Hillary and John Kerry, who you voted for.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We went to a war we didn't have to fight. We went there because the intelligence was cherry-picked and given to the Congress, and the American people were fed hyped-up information.
Alan Colmes: General Clark and Dr. Bennett, it's Alan. Good to have you both back on the show. Dr. Bennett let me go to you at this point. I keep hearing from the administration, "Democrats saw the same intelligence." It's absolutely untrue. Senator after Senator says it's not true. It's not the same intel. They also relied on intel from the Iraqi National Congress and Ahmed Chalabi, who turned out to be a fraud. Lawmakers also didn't see the main document concerning Iraq and WMDs, the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate until three days before the vote. It is not accurate to say Democrats had the same intelligence the administration had.
Bill Bennett: They had about as much intelligence as they wanted. We know a lot of them didn't take advantage of the opportunities to look at more intelligence, but I saw Senator Feingold the other night. He's not someone I usually quote, but he said he went over to the Pentagon. He went to the CIA. He went several times. He investigated the evidence. He decided not to support the war. Many, many more Democrats who saw the intelligence decided to support the war, and what Sean said is absolutely right. If General Clark wants the quotes, here they are: Senator Rockefeller said, "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction."
Alan Colmes: Different intelligence.
Bill Bennett: Senator John Edwards, we remember Senator John Edwards, used the phrase "an imminent threat." All of the intelligence agencies in the world believed it. If you talk to the Secretary of Defense in Great Britain, they still are standing by their story about weapons of mass destruction.
Alan Colmes: It's different intelligence Dr. Bennett. It's not the same intelligence.
Bill Bennett: So, the whole world was agreed on that, because there were many, many good reasons. The question now is what do we do without sending the Democrats-
Alan Colmes: There was different intelligence. It's not accurate. It's not fair to compare what the administration knew and what these Democrats said based on different information. For example, the Pentagon created a special unit that created a different pre-war report, one that was not shared with congress that alleged that Iraq was in league with Al Qaeda. A version of the report briefed to Rumsfeld and top White House officials disparaged the CIA for finding that there was no cooperation between Iraq and Al Qaeda.
Bill Bennett: No that's- I'm sorry. You're reading off some left-wing blog talking points.
Alan Colmes: That's not a left-wing blog. That's Knight-Ridder. That's not a left-wing blog.
Bill Bennet: The same intelligence.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Alan, I think the key issue here, if I could just interject
Bill Bennet: This is my chance to talk.
Alan Colmes: Let Dr. Bennett finish, General Clark, and then we'll give you a chance to respond. Go ahead.
Bill Bennett: Alright. In any case, here Feingold saw the same intelligence and decided to vote against it. All the other Democrats saw the intelligence the same and supported the war.
Alan Colmes: It's not the same intelligence, Dr. Bennett. That's the issue.
Bill Bennett: What's going on now is as much- They looked at different intelligence 'cause some of them did their homework and some didn't, but - let me point this out - what the Democrats are doing now is very dangerous. Just exactly what it is that they want to do? (sic) That's the question. Sean put it right. Are they with Murtha or not? Fred Hyatt the editor of the Washington Post put it this way very well. He said, "The Democrats smell blood. They think they have Bush on the defensive, and right now he is on the defensive. Are they saying that it is worth it - a political victory - it is worth it to lose Iraq, to pull our troops back, to give this victory to Zarqawi? Is that what the Democrats think?
Alan Colmes: General Clark don't let him blame Democrats. Go ahead, General.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Alan, I'll- Alan, I'll tell you, I'll tell you who's with John Murtha, and it's the American public. 57% of the American public-
Sean Hannity: No, they're not
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: in the latest poll say that it's a mistake to be in Iraq, and what you're getting from this administration-
Bill Bennett: We do not govern by opinion polls. We govern in a constitutional republic.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I'm glad to hear you say that,
Bill Bennett: You bet.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: and we shouldn't be governing by partisanship the way that this administration wants to do it.
Sean Hannity: Tell that to your own party.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think what we need to do is lay out the facts to the American people. What's missing here is a little bit of leadership and a little bit of statesmanship.
Sean Hannity: We gotta break. There's no poll that you can site, sir, that calls for America to bail out now. I defy you to say that. When we get back, we'll give you the opportunity, and we'll continue with both these gentlemen next.
(commercial break)
Alan Colmes: We continue with the host of "Morning in America," Fox News contributor Bill Bennett and the former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO and Fox News contributor General Wesley Clark. I want to get into what Jay Rockefeller said, Dr. Bennett, because he is being accused by Conservatives of leaking information or saying that we're going to go to war to the Mideast, and he shouldn't have said it.
Bill Bennett: Right, right.
Alan Colmes: But the administration themselves said it. Let me show you what Richard Clarke said on 60 Minutes. He said, "Rumsfeld was saying we need to bomb Iraq," and he said it to Leslie Stahl, "and we said, 'No, Al Qaeda's in Afghanistan. We need to bomb Afghanistan.' Rumsfeld said, 'There aren't any good targets in Afghanistan.' " This is right after 9/11. " 'There are a lot of good targets in Iraq.' " Condi Rice said things, "I can be certain the world would be better off if Saddam Hussain is on the radar screen for the administration," and that was said in July of 2001, even before September 11th. They gave it away.
Bill Bennett: Yeah well, this is really missing the point, Alan. The point is that Senator Rockefeller said out of his own mouth that he went to Syria in January of 2002 and warned the Syrians that the Americans were coming. You know, like a reverse Paul Revere, "The American are coming."
Alan Colmes: He said it was his opinion that they might do something, and we had people there from the administration-
Bill Bennett: What he said was, what he said was he told them, he told them that George Bush was going to invade Iraq. Now, it was fourteen months later that this occurred. Why was Jay Rockefeller there telling the Syrians this? The Syrains are not friends of the United States. This is a terrorist state. Its' a- They sponsor terrorism. Jay Rockefeller was pressed on this, because we forced him to it. We brought it up on our show. We put it on our blog. And his answer was, "Well, I was there with people from the State Department," and he retreated from his statement, but didn't explain what he was saying. What did he say to the Syrians, and what did the Syrians do with that information? That would be something worth looking into.
Alan Colmes: General Clark- He was very clear about his. He was there with the State Department. Everything he said was cleared. He wasn't speaking extemporaneously, and this is information that the administration, they indicated- they showed their hand even before September 11th- they wanted to go and invade Iraq.
Bill Bennett: I'm s- hhhh. I'm, I'm, I'm-
Alan Colmes: General Clark.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think that what Jay Rockefeller was trying to do was reinforce US policy. That was a time when the country was completely united and determined to get rid of Al Qaeda, and the administration was linking Al Qaeda and Iraq. I think Jay Rockefeller was there trying to do his patriotic duty.
Bill Bennett: Then why doesn't he say so?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I don't know. I haven't talked to Jay Rockefeller.
Bill Bennett: Yeah, ask him.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But I'll tell you this, I'll tell you this: I think you ought to go back to the real issue instead of bringing other issues in. The real issue's this-
Bill Bennett: Well, that's the one I was asking about.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: The real issue's this: We're in Iraq now.
Bill Bennett: Yeah, you bet
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We've got to put the right policies in place-
Sean Hannity: They are in place
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: to succeed there. They're not, because to succeed in Iraq, you've got to deal with Iraq's neighbors Syria and Iran. This administration hasn't done it.
Sean Hannity: Well, how could we do it when we have Democrats undermining- let me let me-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It has nothing to do with the Democrats.
Sean Hannity: It does actually. Well, you ought to call on-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It does not, Sean.
Sean Hannity: Well, you ought to call on- I want to know if your party agrees with John Murtha or not.
Bill Bennett: I agree with that formulation. I agree with that for- Who's talking guys?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It has to do with the President and his leadership. What he has to do is he has to go to the the Syrians. He's got to work with the Iranians, and he's got to pull together a regional cooperation council.
Sean Hannity: Let me play something for our audience, because you know something, you voted for a man that said, "If you don't believe Saddam is a treat with nuclear weapons or WMDs, you shouldn't vote for me." You are best friends with this woman:
Tape
Hillary Clinton: In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September the 11th, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.
Sean Hannity: You said, General, that the President hyped. Did John Kerry hype? Did she hype? Did Bill Clinton hype? Did Edwards hype? Did Kennedy hype? Did all your liberal friends hype or was just George Bush hyping?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think that what happened is that the intelligence community, and when I was reading the intelligence, there was pretty much a consensus that Saddam had chemical weapons.
Sean Hannity: You said the President hyped.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -Had Chemical weapons and biological weapons
Sean Hannity: You said earlier the President hyped. Did they hype?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Here was the hype.
Sean Hannity: Did Hillary hype?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: When Dick Cheney said in August of 2002 that Saddam was about to get a nuclear weapon
Bill Bennett: Can I get in here?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Let me finish please, Bill. When in March of 2003 Dick Cheney said he's about to get a nuclear weapon now-
Sean Hannity: That's what Kerry said.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: No, they didn't say that.
Sean Hannity: Yes he did. Kerry said, "If you don't belive he's a threat with nuclear weapons, don't vote for me."
Alan Colmes: One second, Sean.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And when in October of 2002, Condi said, "We can't take a chance. The first indication might be a mushroom cloud over an American city." That's hype. I think Dick Cheney owes the American people an explanation.
Sean Hannity: So does Hilary.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Why does he say that?
Sean Hannity: Bill Bennett, one sentence.
Bill Bennett: Right. Zawahiri and Zarqawi agree with one thing: the most important thing is to get the American troops out of Iraq. That's the way the Democrats are pushing. That is the wrong way to go.
Alan Colmes: Most Democrats are not saying get them right out. There's a timeline. They're not saying let's all get out.
Sean Hannity: Murtha said it.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Most Democrats don't even have a timeline.
Bill Bennett: Why would George Bush want to keep them there a second longer than they're needed? Why would he want to keep them there a second longer?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Most of the Democrats don't even have a timeline. If you look at what the Democrats have said in the Senate, what they want is the administration to present a strategy, that uses all of America's-
Alan Colmes: We thank you both very much for being with us. Gentlemen, we gotta break. We thank you both.
