General Wesley Clark on Fox News Live
March 16, 2006
Transcription by RegNYC
Martha MacCallum: Taking a look at this huge operation that, that got underway. 50 aircraft involved, a hund- 1500 troops, Iraqi and coalition forces combined in this operation. Blackhawk helicopters involved in this operation as well. 101st Airborne, we're told, was very instrumental in carrying out this operation. They, of course, the elite group of parachuters and rope line droppers who can get into any of these areas very quickly.
We want to bring in to talk about this ongoing operation assault former NATO Supreme Allied Commander and Fox New Analyst, General Wesley Clark. General, good to have you with us this afternoon.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you. Good to be here.
Martha MacCallum: We, along with you, are just getting a first look at some of the folks who are involved in this operation. We know that it's ongoing, and we did hear from Major Tom Bryant this morning that at this point there were none killed or wounded in this operation and that he believes that it was a big success because of the fact that it was an Iraqi-led mission, and it gave them a chance to, sort of, to, to experience taking that role. What do you think about this operation so far?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think that Major Bryant's right. I mean, I think if you can get the Iraqis out in front on an operation like this, it's a good thing. This, of course, is the specialty of the 101st. They're an air assault division. This is what they do. They mass helicopters. They move troops. It's a way of getting in there relatively securely. Of course once you're in there, you're on the ground. You're on foot. Got about a battalion of the 101st in, a brigade of Iraqis. It's a good mix. It's a future model for other tactical operations, and maybe it'll do some good in this, in this sector.
But what I want to caution you is that, although there's been a lot of, a lot of discussion of this, we're not going to win this war militarily. This may contribute to helping us, but the decisive point is political. We've got to get the Sunni leadership into the government. We got to get the constitution changed. And if this operation provides leverage that convinces the Shi'ite leadership to go along with relaxing their conditions and bringing the Sunnis back in, then it's really served it's purpose.
Martha MacCallum: You bring up a very interesting point, General, and that is the two-pronged effort that is underway here - both military and also on the ground in terms of-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Right.
Martha MacCallum: -quelling that insurgency. But isn't it really important to, to demoralize the insurgency to- with- Someone pointed out this morning, I thought it was so interesting, that our military of course is so much stronger in a defense- in an offensive way, to come in and pull off an operation like this that involves something very different from planting IEDs on the side of the road. It's something that these insurgents would never be capable of.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: That's true. The insurgents can't do this, but remember, what this operation really is is a means of transportation right now. What we've done is we've transported these people into the region. Haven't killed anybody yet. They've detained some people. They've found some weapons. They found some explosives. They found some uniforms. So right now this, this operation is a way of mustering forces and, and inserting them. It's not actual combat yet until we meet the enemy.
But what I'm saying is that beyond all of that, operations like this will not win this war.
What will stop the insurgents is when they are delegitimated because the Iraqi people know that the government will take care of them. The Iraqi people don't know that yet, because this government is dominated by the hardline Shi'ites. This strike is in a Sunni area. It's against Sunni insurgents, and so what we have to do is use the military effort that we're making to get political leverage on the hardline Shi'ite leadership so they'll open up the governmental process to the Sunnis.
Martha MacCallum: General, there's been a lot of information that we are getting better intel from Iraqis on the ground, that they, you know, many of them don't want the situation going on any more than the rest of us do, and that they know that part of the key to that is to turning in people that they know are insurgents. Are you encouraged at all by that movement or do you think it's overplayed or underplayed?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think it's helpful, but I, I think you've got to be careful about relying too much on it. Remember that the Iraqi Armed Forces and the Ministry of Interior Police that we've trained are comprised largely of Kurds and Shi'ites. And the Shi'ites, many of them apparently are also working with the militias, and so the force is not a neutral force in every respect. It may be seriously canted towards sectarian ends. And our problem in Iraq is that we've got the Sunnis and the Shi'ites at odds in what is essentially a civil conflict. We've had dozens and dozens and dozens of young men murdered over the last two weeks in and around baghdad in what is a civil war in essence. And now we're running an operation on top of that against these Sunni insurgents. Fine, but the real decisive arena is the political arena, not the military arena.
Martha MacCallum: Alright, General Wesley Clark. Thank you very much.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you.
