General Wesley Clark on Your World with Neil Cavuto
Fox news panel discussion
November 10, 2005
Transcript by Reg NYC

Neil Cavuto: This time it's his own people calling for Zarqawi's head. Is this a tipping point in the war on terror. With us now my friend, Colonel Oliver North, the host of War Stories and author of "Assassins" ; former Supreme Court- Supreme Commander of NATO forces Wesley Clark, also a Fox News contributor, although he could be a court judge, you never know; former director of Central Intelligence Admiral Stansfield Turner; and here with me my friend, Fox News war correspondent Steve Harrigan.

Steve to you first, what do you make of just the fact now, all of the sudden, Jordanians at the point of then being ticked off at Zarqawi?

Steve Harrigan: It's a great thing to see those Jordanians out there angry about what's being done, angry at Jordanian civilians being killed by these murders.

Neil Cavuto: Alright, you know, Admiral Turner this is the first time at least in recent memory to me that I could hear the Arab community saying, "enough is enough." What are we to make of that?

Admiral Stansfield Turner: Well, that's a very, very encouraging development. It's what we've got to encourage all around, particularly the Muslim world. We've got to get the people on the scene to recognize that it's not in their interests to let this terrorism go on, even if the terrorism itself is directed largely at westerners or Americans.

Neil Cavuto: Ollie, is this sort of a seminal turning point this day?

Colonel Oliver North: I think it will be, Neil, if you now hear from the mosques, the imams, the ayatolas, the shaykhs the same kind of rhetoric we're hearing from that crowd that was probably in large part turned out in sympathy for the king. He was a popular figure in his own country. And I would say that if you now hear that kind of thing coming from the mosques, particularly at Friday prayers, then this could well be that tipping point you spoke of.

Neil Cavuto: General, I'm wondering when we hear talk of tipping points and we wait for imams and those to go along with what we've heard from the Jordanian people today- it's sort of like waiting for Godot- I haven't heard it yet. What are you to make of that?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We'll we've heard some condemnations in the past. For example, we heard some of the imams condemn the bombing in London, but there hasn't been a sustained outcry, and this is really about the Islamic groups in various countries. They've got to really condemn this. This is a civil war within Islam, and so the fact that there are people who are opposed to the terrorists. Fine, but they've got to take action. They've got to report them. They've got to turn them in, and the leadership, the imams have to support that. That's what's not happening yet.

Neil Cavuto: Steve, do you see that happening any time soon?

Steve Harrigan: I can only just hope for it, Neil. We haven't seen it really happen in Iraq. That's because people are afraid to come out. They're afraid to stand up and be counted, to come out and take stands against these people, because they're afraid of retaliation against either themselves or their families, but in Amman, the situation a little more stable, people do feel the courage enough to go out on the street and protest.

Neil Cavuto: Ollie North, do we see that there is momentum shifting the other way, that as Steve said there are a lot of people still afraid of fallout from countering Zarqawi but that that might be changing?

Colonel Oliver North: Well, my guess is Steve and I have got as much time in the field over there as some of the folks that commentate about it elsewhere. I would tell you that I think most Iraqis are afraid that we are going to cut and run We don't have a good history here. I just spent the day celebrating the Marine Corps birthday with some of the wounded down here at Brooke Army Hospital. They're concerned about it. I think when you start hearing soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and guardsmen talking about, "Gosh, I hope what we've suffered is not in vain." I think you're hearing that same thing from the, if you will, the Arab street inside Iraq.

Neil Cavuto: You know, Admiral Turner, I always tend to keep one eye out on Wall Street, and I notice that it kind of absorbed the one-two punch we got out of Jordan yesterday, continued to climb today on the belief, expressed by some, that we are winning that war on terror- that's a pocket of that community. Do you buy that?

Admiral Stansfield Turner: I don't buy that as a indicator that we're winning the entire war on terror, but I think this is a good step in the right direction. It's a small step in the overall picture.

Neil Cavuto: General Clark, there have been a lot of folks, even within your own Democratic Party who've said we've got to change our strategy, and maybe in light of the bombings in Jordan yesterday, we're recognizing that. But does that change in strategy mean recognizing that terror is a bigger threat in countries way beyond Iraq?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think that what a lot of people in the Democratic Party have said for a long time is that terrorism's a threat in a lot of countries beyond Iraq, and the question's been: why go to Iraq and stir that up? Neil, what you saw in Jordan yesterday is a very bad sign, because before we went into Iraq there wasn't that kind of terrorism in Jordan, and so this indicates that, even though the majority of the people are out on the street today, there is a minority in there who have been successful in laying the seeds for further violence. This is a very bad sign.

Neil Cavuto: Ollie, if we were to pull back from Iraq, do you think this violence would stop?
Colonel Oliver North: Well, let me differ with what General Clark just said, because I think that what you are seeing really is an act of desperation on the part of the terrorists. One of the things that they are fearful of most of all is purple fingers being raised on December 15th by Iraqi women. Women are not going to go out to vote to have their sons become suicide terrorists like we saw blow themselves up in Amman, Jordan. Women go out to vote to give their sons something to live for instead of something to die for, and that ultimately is going to be the great victory that we see. An election is not going to determine the whole outcome, but it's the next best step we can take in the right direction.

Neil Cavuto: Steve, you've been with the troops and traveled in all of these terror spots. Jordan was not considered among them. The fact that it changed yesterday, does that change things today?

Steve Harrigan: It really does, Neil. This changes the way we do business in Jordan. It changes the way we feel when we're in Jordan. It changes the way we carry ourselves, all the procedures. It changes Jordan for years to come.

Neil Cavuto: Alright, while we're on the subject guys, I want to thank you all, very much appreciate it.