General Wesley Clark on Fox News
October 15, 2006
Transcription by Melange

Page Hopkins: Douglas Paal is the former Senior Director of Asian Affairs at the National Security Council. Also joining us, General Wesley Clark former NATO Supreme Allied Commander. Gentlemen, thanks for joining us this morning. General Clark, let's start with you. This nuclear club is growing and obviously we're very focused on North Korea today but what country are you worried about? What country's next in line to get a nuke up and ready?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well the next country after North Korea, of course is Iran. And, there are many other countries - Japan can go nuclear quickly; we dissuaded South Africa from seeking nuclear weapons; the Saudis probably could get access to nuclear technology if Iran got it. Egypt is a country that would feel threatened if other countries had it. So, there's…this is a very dangerous period.

Page Hopkins: Doug, what kind of precedent has North Korea's actions setting, I mean it's sort of changed, almost ramped up the nuclear race. How do you think it's changed…changed it?

Douglas Paal: Well the Iranians are watching to see how the international community responds so they can calculate what kind of bargaining position to evolve as they deal with the western parties that are trying to get them to put their nuclear programs under tighter inspection. Other countries will watch how Iran proceeds. The question of Japan and other northeast Asian states…Taiwan, picking up nuclear weapons; South Korea…those are in the air but I think they're a long, long way from being put into proper military programs. These three countries in northeast Asia will rely on the United States nuclear umbrella to protect them from having to go down that path.

Page Hopkins: General Clark, do you think that there has been almost a psychological change in the nuclear race? A change in thinking - it seems as if there's less a fear of the mutually assured destruction - that sort of the Reagan era thinking. Have you found that there's a psychological change in the nuclear landscape?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well we've seen really since the beginning of the 1990's the need to control nuclear proliferation. That's why…and I don't want to open an old argument here, but that's why in the Clinton administration…that administration was so determined to deal with North Korea and try to head off their acquisition of nuclear weapons. But, unfortunately we've really been focused on the Middle East and Iraq. The President did undertake a nuclear initiative with India. There was an agreement signed in March, it's very controversial. What really needs to be done is we need to reopen and really pay attention to the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty. The treaty was effective - we dissuaded many states from getting nuclear weapons using that treaty but we haven't paid attention to that treaty at all of the atmospherics around it in some time. We need to get back to that.

Page Hopkins: But sir, excuse me but also North Korea didn't pay a lot of attention to that treaty either.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We had a Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty review conference last year. We didn't prepare for it. We didn't send the senior person to it. We need to get control of the nuclear fuel cycle internationally rather than having countries outsource that. The United States should be the leader in proposing this control. It should be a modification of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty. If we do that, we'll contain some of the spread of the nuclear proliferation possibilities.

Page Hopkins: Speaking of the spreading Douglas, with China not conducting inspections on cargo ships, what is stopping North Korea from selling nukes. North Korea, you know a country that is starving its people, what is stopping them from selling their nukes to terrorists?

Douglas Paal: I haven't read anything that suggests the Chinese are not going to conduct inspections. There will not be inspections under this UN Resolution of cargo ships by anybody. The Chinese didn't want that because they didn't want to have the potential for violence put into the hands of powers they did not control close to their borders. They're very much interested in maintaining stability on their borders, however there's ample precedent for the Chinese to inspect cargoes going in and out of land routes into North Korea through China.

Page Hopkins: Okay, unfortunately we are out of time gentlemen. Thank you so much General Wesley Clark, Douglas Paal, thank you for joining us this morning.