(video of President Bush speech at the Coast Guard Academy commencement)

Mark Steyn: That was President Bush today at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy commencement ceremony. The President talked about the declassified intelligence information that links Iraq and Al Qaeda and the ongoing threat we're facing from terrorists. Joining us now is the former NATO Supreme Commander Wesley Clark. General Clark, before we talk about the President's speech, this is obviously bad news about the death in Iraq. Do you think this speaks, just doesn't raise many optimistic hopes for the other men kidnapped?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think it's a terrible tragedy, and, and my heart goes out to the family of, of this man and to the families of the other soldiers. I, I hope we can get the other two back. I hope they're alive. I just don't know. We have to just trust our leaders over there to do the best they can to get them back.

Mark Steyn: And, and I agree. Our thoughts are obviously with the Anzack family tonight. That brings us to the speech that the President gave at the Coast Guard Academy. Basically, whatever the arguments now about whether we should've gone to war in the first place and whether Iraq had anything to do with Al Qaeda, the fact is Al Qaeda is there now. So, in a sense, that argument is moot, surely. The President has a point there.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I'm not sure if the argument's actually moot or not. Yes, Al Qaeda's there, but most of the statistics that I've seen, the military intelligence says that Al Qaeda's less than 5% of the insurgent force. We're actually in the middle of a civil war, and by being there in the middle of the civil war, what we're doing is the pictures of the American soldiers in combat incite sympathizers of Al Qaeda. We're actually supercharging their recruiting efforts, and if you were going to look for a center-

Mark Steyn: Well-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -of the war on terror, I'd look at Pakistan. I'd look at maybe the resurgence of the Taliban. I might look at Britain. Britain has the greatest number apparently of disaffected young Muslims who are looking for connections with Pakistan and seeking for ways to get into the fight. So, it's not clear to me that 170,000 Americans is the- in, in Iraq is the best way to take the fight to Al Qaeda. I think it's probably-

Mark Steyn: But the, but the-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -the worst way.

Mark Steyn: If you're proposing a U.S. invasion of Britain, I'd be on, I'd be on board with that. But you used this phrase "supercharging". I mean, it- wouldn't it be true to say that losing in Iraq for the superpower, for the 'Great Satan' to be defeated in Iraq, wouldn't that supercharge Al Qaeda's morale and the jihad's morale, including all those jihadists and wannabe jihadists in Britain? Wouldn't that supercharge them more than anything?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think you have to be very careful how you characterize what's going on in Iraq. For example, if the President of the United States characterizes what's going on in Iraq as the war between the United States and Al Qaeda, that's just being fought out in Iraq, and then we listen to the American people, and we do pull our troops out gradually, there's no doubt Al Qaeda will then take advantage of it and claim they drove us out of Iraq, and they're the great victor. So, in a way, we're creating our own defeat by the pronouncements of our public officials.

Mark Steyn: Ah-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: What we really need to be doing is helping the Iraqi government stand up its capabilities to take care of its own people, broker the political compromises that are needed on the ground, and deal with Iraq's neighbors who have a interest and an involvement in some of the civil conflict right now.

Alan Colmes: General Clark, it's Alan Colmes. Welcome back to our show.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you.

Alan Colmes: The President talking at the Coast Guard Academy today, and then in synch with that, having this declassified intelligence, is this a case of the President declassifying intelligence for political gain?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Every administration does that Alan, as you know. But this is not a new argument for this administration. This administration and this President have been saying from the- really from 2004 on, that somehow the, that Iraq was the center of the war on terror, and it simply isn't true.

Alan Colmes: Uh-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It wasn't before we invaded, and we have provided our soldiers there-

Alan Colmes: Right.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -as a good target for the terrorists to come after us.

Alan Colmes: He's also talking today about how important Bin Laden, but here's what President Bush said in 2002. Let's take a look.

(pause while waiting for the video)

Alan Colmes: We apparently don't have that. Do we have that? We don't have that. Apparently he said, "I don't think about him. He's not that important." You know, "I, I barely focus upon him." That's what he said in 2002.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: So, you're not going to accuse the President of flip-flopping, are you, Alan?

Alan Colmes: Are you- what? I mean-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I mean-

Alan Colmes: -You heard the President. You heard that he said that back then.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I, I heard him say in 2001-

Alan Colmes: Did, did we take our eye off-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -'Wanted Dead or Alive.'

Alan Colmes: Right. Did we take our eye off- Did he take his eye off the proper target here?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think all along the President's had a problem with the invasion of Iraq. It didn't go the way it was- he expected it to go. It was an unjustified action. It wasn't necessary. It was an elective war, and he's been grasping at straws ever since. Al Qaeda is a threat. Make no doubt about it, and there are people out there who want to harm the United States. I'm one of those who believe you must fight them most effectively, and that is through the governments in Pakistan and our allies in Western Europe where there are Al Qaeda sympathizers.

Alan Colmes: And that's where the Michael-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And you go after them-

Alan Colmes: Michael Shoyer says that the next attack is likely to come from Pakistan, head of- former head of the Bin Laden Unit.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Right.

Alan Colmes: That's where-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: That's probably true.

Alan Colmes: Or Afghanistan, not Iraq. You agree with that.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think you've got to fight them first by cutting off their recruiting.

Alan Colmes: Right.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And that means not inciting more recruits. Then you've got to use police and law enforcement. And last, only as a last resort, military force, because military force has a counterproductive aspect to it. It's very visible, and it brings in more sympathizers and recruits. So, in some ways-

Alan Colmes: Right.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -it's counterproductive.

Alan Colmes: General Clark, we thank you very much for being on the show tonight.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: That's our problem.

Alan Colmes: Good to see you once again.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you, Alan.